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2006-09-04 22:07:28
AlbertWesker[RE]
Not Human Anymore
+144|6889|Seattle, WA
Ok fellas, we made a lot of process on the Concealed Weapons thread, so answer this one and only question, no offshoots on religion, or politics, or namecalling (I've had just about enough of that).  Just read the question and respond.

The FBI has reported that in the previous years, 1991-2004, that Rape is down 24%, Aggravated assault is down 33%, Murder is down 44%, and Robbery is down 50%.

Also the FBI has previously reported that Violent crime has been way down from 1991-2004.  Gun ownership and the number of firearms in the U.S. is now at an ALL TIME HIGH.

My one and only question for those of you who say guns create crime or such other subject:

How can crime be this far down and still going down when firearm ownership and the amount of firearms are on the rise???

If you don't answer this question, I WILL NOT RESPOND TO YOU.  (Smart ass remarks will only make you look stupid)

Last edited by AlbertWesker[RE] (2006-09-05 10:21:40)

2006-09-04 22:21:26
basetballjones
Member
+30|6993
Registered firearm owners are generally not criminals.

Criminals steal or purchase their firearms on the black market.

Conversely, criminals knowing that citizens are armed is a deterent.
2006-09-04 22:31:39
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|6888
lowlife gang bangers piss their pants and run to momma when they see a flash of steel in their direction.
2006-09-04 22:34:01
Adams_BJ
Russian warship, go fuck yourself
+2,054|6867|Little Bentcock

basetballjones wrote:

Registered firearm owners are generally not criminals.

Criminals steal or purchase their firearms on the black market.

Conversely, criminals knowing that citizens are armed is a deterent.
2006-09-04 22:36:43
mexico1975
Member
+1|6689
Seriously, I read a report that video game usage is down. Many experts in childhood beleive that young adolecents are at home playing video games rather than comitting crimes. I am not being political or weird, its something I read.

Parents rather purchase video games for their kids than have them out and about getting into trouble or god forbid, watching what they are doing! The downside of this, is that being fat for children is also on the rise!

Mexico1975
2006-09-04 22:40:50
Barnyard
Member
+0|7011
IMO fire arm ownership doesn't have a direct correlation to crime.  As posted above registered gun owner are typical not the ones commiting the crimes.   I think the drop is related to what Mexico posted with all the tech available there is more deternets and distractions.
2006-09-04 22:43:49
Ganko_06
Laughter with an S
+167|6889|Camoran's Paradise

basetballjones wrote:

Registered firearm owners are generally not criminals.

Criminals steal or purchase their firearms on the black market.

Conversely, criminals knowing that citizens are armed is a deterent.
This is probably a major factor but it has been like this for years.  In the late 19th century, however, most

Americans owned a gun and crime was unbelievable.  I believe a better education system and civil service

(police, prison as deterentt) are also major contributors.
2006-09-04 22:48:34
eagles1106
Member
+269|6828|Marlton, New Jersey.

GunSlinger OIF II wrote:

lowlife gang bangers piss their pants and run to momma when they see a flash of steel in their direction.
lol its like theres a gangbanger RIGHT behind you as you type, hehe
*off topic*Im afraid of stingrays now...lol...

Last edited by eagles1106 (2006-09-04 22:48:51)

2006-09-04 22:50:50
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6806
Maybe your way works, but I would argue there is a better way.
2006-09-04 23:04:52
TinMaN
Member
+5|6693|Kansas City, KS, USA
I read somewhere a while back that most people who commit violent crimes have a predatory mentality, in which they will seek out an easy target, one that they feel that can commit the crime and get away with it.  It is my opinion that these 'easy targets' are getting fewer and fewer because of the large amounts of people that have firearms on their person. 

I have seen quite a few instances in my local town where home invasions backfired on the criminal because the homeowner either shot the invader or shot AT them and they ran away.  If you break it down into the basic urges of a predator/prey situation, even a little old lady with a .45 has a chance of mortally wounding a 19 year old thug intent on taking her purse, which in the predator's mind, isn't worth the chance.  The thug is going to choose to avoid the situation and move on to something else, something they feel they can get away with.
2006-09-04 23:20:22
UON
Junglist Massive
+223|6898
With all the guns people are scared to report crime to the police because they'll get shot if they snitch, rather than just raped, assaulted or robbed?
2006-09-04 23:25:06
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6919|Canberra, AUS
That's a good question.

However, you don't need a gun to do crime (what about random burglary?). Now give me the GUN crime figures - and the figures of people accidentally shot by guns.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2006-09-04 23:30:39
MoChief
Member
+67|6846
I'll tell you the answer.... There are Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Nevertheless, I am a big fan of 2nd ammendment.   Got my DAO-12 right here.
2006-09-04 23:31:34
GotMex?
$623,493,674,868,715.98 in Debt
+193|7007

Spark wrote:

That's a good question.

However, you don't need a gun to do crime (what about random burglary?). Now give me the GUN crime figures - and the figures of people accidentally shot by guns.
That would be the data that would correlate to this situation. However most people claim that "Guns increase crime". So the relevant information to that claim is that crime is down, gun ownership is up.
2006-09-05 04:06:30
.:XDR:.PureFodder
Member
+105|7074
There was a classic example of this type of thing I saw a while ago, someone decided for a laugh to plot the number of people committed with mental problems against the number of people who read The Daily Mail newspaper in the UK. They found a perfect correlation.

The two things don't (in fact they rarely ever do) have any direct correlation with each other, even if the general trend seems to match.

Remember, only about 25% of Americans own any type of firearm, hence the trend in these figures (a drop of 50%) CANNOT be due to gun ownership as the number of people who own guns DIDN'T increase by anywhere near that amount. Remember that gun ownership is increasing and so is the restrictions on weapons that can be bought.
2006-09-05 04:42:25
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6929|United States of America
Maybe crime is down since all the criminals were shot by Albert.
2006-09-05 04:53:12
aardfrith
Δ > x > ¥
+145|7037

AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:

Ok fellas, we made a lot of process on the Concealed Weapons thread, so answer this one and only question, no offshoots on religion, or politics, or namecalling (I've had just about enough of that).  Just read the question and respond.

The FBI has reported that in the previous year, 2005, that Rape is down 24%, Aggravated assault is down 33%, Murder is down 44%, and Robbery is down 50%.

Also the FBI has previously reported that Violent crime has been way down from 1991-2004.  Gun ownership and the number of firearms in the U.S. is now at an ALL TIME HIGH.

My one and only question for those of you who say guns create crime or such other subject:

How can crime be this far down and still going down when firearm ownership and the amount of firearms are on the rise???

If you don't answer this question, I WILL NOT RESPOND TO YOU.  (Smart ass remarks will only make you look stupid)
Isn't the US prison population also at an ALL TIME HIGH?  Could this also be related?

At a rough guess, the violent crimes carry the longest sentences and so take people out of society to prevent them from doing more crimes.  However, the crims that owned guns before they went into prison still own them, just can't use them.

By the way, have you got a linkable source for these crime statistics or are you just making them up?
2006-09-05 05:01:33
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7002|Argentina

AlbertWesker[RE] wrote:

Ok fellas, we made a lot of process on the Concealed Weapons thread, so answer this one and only question, no offshoots on religion, or politics, or namecalling (I've had just about enough of that).  Just read the question and respond.

The FBI has reported that in the previous year, 2005, that Rape is down 24%, Aggravated assault is down 33%, Murder is down 44%, and Robbery is down 50%.

Also the FBI has previously reported that Violent crime has been way down from 1991-2004.  Gun ownership and the number of firearms in the U.S. is now at an ALL TIME HIGH.

My one and only question for those of you who say guns create crime or such other subject:

How can crime be this far down and still going down when firearm ownership and the amount of firearms are on the rise???

If you don't answer this question, I WILL NOT RESPOND TO YOU.  (Smart ass remarks will only make you look stupid)
I think there's no relation between crime and gun ownership, at least for good.  You must say hey, if we have guns the rapers, the thieves, the murderers will think it twice before doing such things.  If you think this way you are wrong.  People like those don't care if you have your 357 ready.  If crime is reported to be down, it must be the police and the fbi are doing their job.  Think about New York 20 years back, it was a very dangerous place as far I can remember, and then major Giuliani did his job and got rid of crime.  So, when government does the job give them the credit.

Last edited by sergeriver (2006-09-05 05:02:30)

2006-09-05 05:09:17
tahadar
Sniper!!
+183|6983|Pakistan/England
as my statistics teacher would say "correlation does NOT imply causation". what that means is that even though crime levels are low and gun ownership is high, it does not in ANY way mean that high gun ownership causes low levels of crime. There could be a common factor that is leading to high levels of gun ownership and low levels of crime, or there could be completely different reasons for the crime/gun ownership levels to be where they are.

if the govt. could statisticaly prove that gun ownership is actually causing low crime levels, then i would agree that gun ownership is a good thing. otherwise, im not to cool with that idea.

Last edited by tahadar (2006-09-05 05:10:30)

2006-09-05 05:13:23
jonsimon
Member
+224|6740
Post hoc
2006-09-05 05:13:38
MonroStrongrod
Member
+4|6850|Sacramento, California
Crime in general is down in the united state... oh wait, I forgot that even tho the overall crime numbers are down, violent crime has been on the rise for the last 10 years. I can tell you this much, firearms do contribute to violent crime, but the criminals who commit these crimes would find another means to hurt someone if there were magically no guns. I'm tired of the media going on and on about gun regulations, I'm frustrated to the point of tears on the global medias portrayal of Americans as gun wielding cowboys, shootin baby seals and the french. All those foreign media sources (cough *BBC* cough) show numbers of accident, suicide, injury and even crime caused by Satan's hand cannon, BAH! I call bullshit, If someone cared to do a world wide study of firearms they would see that any country with guns has these issues, and America would have the lowest percent per owner of any gun related crime or accidents in the world. Another issue I have with the relationship to crime guns have is the old argument that criminals will get the guns no matter what, its true, if you don't believe me look it up on the Internet. Places like england don't have many gun related crimes due to strict laws, no tolerance and excellent police enforcement. Australia took all the guns they could find and destroyed them, even guns their people had legal ownership of. All that is how absurd a nation can be about gun control. I think we need to have someone go on a killing spree with silverware from a restaurant, that way people outlaw silverware in public laces, it could happen! Now that I'm once again yelling at my monitor, I need to go kick a puppy, maybe an Australian Sheppard...
2006-09-05 05:18:53
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|6987|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
subscription into the army and your abundant penitentiaries??
2006-09-05 05:50:35
broncobullfrog
Extra Tender Juicy SPINY
+58|6996|The 70's
How can you have a whole discussion based on false statistics?

"Preliminary figures indicate that, as a whole, law enforcement agencies throughout the Nation reported an increase of 2.5 percent in the number of violent crimes brought to their attention in 2005 when compared to figures reported for 2004. The violent crime category includes murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. "

Source - http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2005preliminary/index.htm
2006-09-05 06:15:28
Budo7
Member
+2|7017

Ganko_06 wrote:

basetballjones wrote:

Registered firearm owners are generally not criminals.

Criminals steal or purchase their firearms on the black market.

Conversely, criminals knowing that citizens are armed is a deterent.
This is probably a major factor but it has been like this for years.  In the late 19th century, however, most

Americans owned a gun and crime was unbelievable.  I believe a better education system and civil service

(police, prison as deterentt) are also major contributors.
Sadly that is not true at all, crime as we see it today is much worse then it was back then.
Back then if I saw someone who did not belong at my friends house I would stop and go over, to find out
what was going on. Now today if I see someone over my friends house, I hardly give it a second thought.
I had to write a paper on How the Wild west was not really all that wild, a long time ago, as I am older then dirt.

Having listened to stories from my Grandfather, who was born just after the Civil war (may he RIP) back then one some one broke the law,  they were caught and give punishment quickly.
2006-09-05 06:17:15
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|7002|Argentina
So, the statistics were wrong?  And besides the topic poster stole my fucking sig and changed it.

 

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