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SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+403|2469
So I have been reading more about this virus. It seems to be the consensus among scientist that there will be a big breakout in the U.S. eventually. California is the most likely place for it to happen considering the weather and the homeless population.

So 80% of the people who get the virus show no symptoms or have mild colds. 1-3% actually die from it. Most deaths seem to be older people and those already with chronic health problems. The major issue with the virus being only a mild problem in most people is that it will spread around more since people won't drop dead quickly like they would from Ebola.

If or when the outbreak takes places in America, it would be made all the worse by the fact that our social safety net is balls. Most Americans get no paid sick days. Your typical McDonald's worker doesn't get paid to stay home with a cold. We also do not have universal healthcare so expect more people to avoid getting treatment.

It would actually be kind of just to for our collective sin of greed finally drown us.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+403|2469
Also the fake numbers on wall street are going down.
uziq
Member
+342|2202
why is the weather in california and the homeless population vectors of the disease? i thought the common understanding was that hot, dry climates are better than cold, wet, damp ones? don't most cold/flu outbreaks die out naturally from the turn from winter to summer? and why are the homeless especially at-risk? they don't get on international flights or meet-up in big groups to shake hands and kiss ... isn't the whole understanding of the disease that it is incubated in households, amongst close contact between family members? the homeless aren't exactly that. this isn't bubonic plague spreading via fleas on rats.

you're right that it is going to be a major economic and political test.

for example, in the UK, the conservative government have bragged for ages about their unemployment figures. of course, this 'economic recovery' is a euphemism because most of the jobs put back on since the austerity-era have been zero-hours contracts, precariat roles, or the 'gig economy'. all of this offloads employers of responsibility and, yes, the usual economic safety nets assured to fully contracted staff (some companies even used the economic downturn as an excuse to shed full-time staff and re-open the same roles with reduced contractual-legal protections ...)

what do you tell a gig economy driver to do when they have to 'self-isolate' after contact with a possibly infected passenger? that person doesn't have sick pay. they probably don't have months' worth of savings, either. an employer like uber, rather than being obligated to cover them, is in fact going to aggressively force them out of the workforce, in order to avert a PR disaster for the head office. and it's not just 'underclass' taxi drivers who have employer–employee relations like this now, either; it's slowly been becoming the new norm, much to the benefit of those at the top.

a thing like coronavirus really exposes in an instant how much of the current set-up is political finagling and bad faith on the part of the elites (not to mention outright incompetence when it comes to arranging disaster response and communications). the rude 'health' of the society, of the 'booming' economy, of trump's 'great job', etc, will soon be shown up.

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-28 06:28:26)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+403|2469

Uzi wrote:

you're right that it is going to be a major economic and political test.
It's interesting that the American right is already rallying around Trump. A career official in the Health and Human Services whistleblew that the staff that evacuated the Americans from Wuhan didn't have the proper gear and training to do so. Conservatives already have said there is a new conspiracy against Trump and they will defend to death his response to it.

Trump is going to turn this around to blame immigrants even though Latin America and Africa has been barely affected compared to wealthy places like Italy.

It's going to be hell of a show.
uziq
Member
+342|2202
yep, i have a hunch that the health minister and top bigwigs in johnson's government (not to mention boris himself) over here are ill-prepared and bluffing, too. they haven't a clue. there's been a few stories in the papers already with GPs and medical personnel on the front line saying that government communications, briefings, advice to citizens, etc. has been woefully directed.

this lot don't have a fucking clue. it's easy to criticise china for its authoritarian handling of the situation, but the alternative, a bunch of rich assholes who only care about their plutocrat circle, isn't exactly a lot better. i mean, wuhan is a pretty large city and it has been on total lockdown for a month now. the government has been running everything from the top down and delivering food to all of its inhabitants. for a month. and it has built several hospitals in that time, too, obviously. i don't think the US could even absorb 7 million more people applying for food stamps at once.

it'll be interesting when thousands of americans start turning up in hospitals with no insurance requiring life-saving intensive treatment.

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-28 10:16:08)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,839|5522|USA

SuperJail Warden wrote:

It's interesting that the American right is already rallying around Trump.
It's aggravating that some conservatives are all like "yeah, we don't like him much either but he's all we got, which is why I support him!"

It's like, stop linking me to the latest daily presidential embarrassment. We all know you're going to vote for the guy in 2020.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4108|London, England
It's just the fucking flu, people. So massively overblown
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+403|2469
The current death rate globally for the coronavirus is about 3.4%. The flu, meanwhile, has an average death rate of less than .2%.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+746|5435|United States of America
It's also, quite literally, not the flu.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,839|5522|USA

I'm pretty sure the flu is the flu.

Discussed in terms of caution around the coronavirus:
How Does the New Coronavirus Compare with the Flu?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti … th-the-flu
Also, this article makes an interesting point:
Coronavirus Is Bad. Comparing It to the Flu Is Worse
The whataboutism of infectious disease is as dangerous as it is hackneyed.
https://www.wired.com/story/coronavirus … u-is-worse
But yeah totally, who cares about coronavirus because the flu is a thing.

Is that your thing? Come on, Jay.

e:
WHO raises Covid-19 alert to highest level after cases found in nearly 50 countries
https://www.vox.com/2020/2/28/21157350/ … ic-covid19
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4108|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

The current death rate globally for the coronavirus is about 3.4%. The flu, meanwhile, has an average death rate of less than .2%.
The Chinese probably jacked up the death rate by shoving all the infected people into fake hospital death tents. Thousands of people crammed into beds three feet apart... those people are gonna catch everything imaginable.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4108|London, England

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I'm pretty sure the flu is the flu.

Discussed in terms of caution around the coronavirus:
How Does the New Coronavirus Compare with the Flu?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti … th-the-flu
Also, this article makes an interesting point:
Coronavirus Is Bad. Comparing It to the Flu Is Worse
The whataboutism of infectious disease is as dangerous as it is hackneyed.
https://www.wired.com/story/coronavirus … u-is-worse
But yeah totally, who cares about coronavirus because the flu is a thing.

Come on, Jay.

e:
WHO raises Covid-19 alert to highest level after cases found in nearly 50 countries
https://www.vox.com/2020/2/28/21157350/ … ic-covid19
Yes, I'm aware that the flu is a very specific virus. Coronavirus is not all that different. Similar symptoms. Longer incubation time. It's not nearly as big of a deal as the media has made it out to be. People just latch onto this end of days shit and go nuts.

From your last article: "A pandemic means a new virus is spreading in multiple regions of the world, but it doesn’t say anything about a disease’s severity."

Last edited by Jay (2020-02-28 11:30:17)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,839|5522|USA

It'S jUSt thE FlU tHe WhOlE THiNg Is MAssIveLy OveRblOwN!
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+403|2469
Even if the whole thing is overblown, which it isn't, it doesn't hurt at all to prepare and practice for a bigger one.
uziq
Member
+342|2202

Jay wrote:

It's just the fucking flu, people. So massively overblown
it's not the flu.

and the spanish influenza infected 500 million people, killing 50 million ... at 1918 levels of world population.

that's a bigger death toll than the great war.

'just flu'.

if you have any elderly relatives, or, indeed, children, then i'd say serious viral contagion is something worth paying some attention to. it's always 'just the flu' until your parents are in ICU with pneumonia.

Jay wrote:

Yes, I'm aware that the flu is a very specific virus.
flu actually isn't a very specific virus. there are so many strains active at one time that it makes annual inoculation that much harder.

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-28 11:40:13)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,839|5522|USA

It's not worthy of the mighty Jay's attention. It's just an overblown flu, which is also not worthy of concern.

Shut down the vaccine research, guys.
uziq
Member
+342|2202
just wait. as soon as coronavirus drives up the tax rate in mahwah, NJ he is going to be crying like the little petit-bourgeoisie that he is.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4108|London, England

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

It's not worthy of the mighty Jay's attention. It's just an overblown flu, which is also not worthy of concern.

Shut down the vaccine research, guys.
Just admit you love this shit because it let's your OCD run wild in public while drawing less confused looks when you walk around with tissue boxes on your feet and using hand sanitizer after touching every door knob.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+342|2202
even if it comes to relatively little, which there's no guarantee it won't at this point, that will only be because a whole bunch of people are taking it very fucking seriously indeed. you saying it's 'just the flu' makes it sound like a a bunch of people will get a runny nose for 2 weeks in december and shrug it off. it's nothing like an annual, routine flu spread. a lot of work is being done very frantically right now to stop it becoming a very bad situation.

as above, even just the economic costs alone of people having to self-isolate, events being cancelled, movement being limited, etc. is going to be astronomical.

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-28 12:30:17)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4108|London, England
It's all pointless. It's already spread too far. The only thing that can be done is to ride it out... just like the flu. Governments need to pretend that they are at least somewhat in control of the situation or they get eviscerated by the press. They're not. People move around too much to contain something with a 14 day incubation time.

China sure did get you to jizz yourself in awe of their might and totalitarian power though. They built that death hospital in record time and you ooooh'd and ahhhh'd. Fucking pointless.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+403|2469
Any people we can stop from getting sick before this is over are worth saving. I think it will also be a good thing if we learned how stop the next SARS/MERS/Corona from becoming big.

Jay medical expert
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4108|London, England

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Any people we can stop from getting sick before this is over are worth saving. I think it will also be a good thing if we learned how stop the next SARS/MERS/Corona from becoming big.

Jay medical expert
This coming from the guy that can't wait for the last gasp videos to be published so he can jerk off.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+342|2202
i mean, yeah ... no. we don’t just ‘ride out the flu’, do we, jay? absolutely huge public health efforts are made every fall to prepare for and combat the flu. the amount of logistical organisation, epidemiological work, local dispensing and nursing/caring, etc, is huge and costly. every single year. we’ve been studying it for decades now, we understand all 4 main strains, advanced systems are in place.

and every single year 100,000s still die of flu, despite our best efforts and a huge running start at it every year.

coronavirus is a novel virus that we don’t even understand yet. there’s certainly not been nationwide inoculation programs in place. we don’t even know at this stage if it’s bi-phasic, and can trigger second reinfections later on.

society doesn’t just experience the flu like the weather, or something. huge efforts are made to combat it, it is quite literally one of the main aspects of public health systems (the NHS here give out annual jabs, they even come into offices for rolling periods to offer it), and every year it is still a very high-risk illness for the elderly and vulnerable.

you really are on a roll lately.

China sure did get you to jizz yourself in awe of their might and totalitarian power though. They built that death hospital in record time and you ooooh'd and ahhhh'd. Fucking pointless.
err my point was even in an authoritarian regime with ruthless clampdowns and controls, it is still so highly infectious that it should give any western administration some reason to pause and worry. not that china's approach is in any way preferable. but well done. make a fucking point, you mental midget.

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-28 12:59:22)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+403|2469

Jay wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Any people we can stop from getting sick before this is over are worth saving. I think it will also be a good thing if we learned how stop the next SARS/MERS/Corona from becoming big.

Jay medical expert
This coming from the guy that can't wait for the last gasp videos to be published so he can jerk off.
At least I am trying to help. I donated $25 to the Red Cross just yesterday.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,839|5522|USA

Jay with his head in the sand, lapping up every last bit of reassurance he can get his grimy little paws on. "Don't concern your wee little head over flu coronavirus, the flu kills people too and so do car accidents."

But least people's hand sanitizer OCD, whatever that is, can be justified? Yes, that should definitely be the focus here.

Great take, Jay.

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