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2026-07-31 03:13:26
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,854|6931|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

that in-itself is a 14-year-old reddit user's take.

in fact, that's a bit harsh to reddit users. they've all moved on from the dawkins-harris type of 'hurr durr religion' takes.

is a 3000-year-old bronze age myth more or less credible than a myth invented in the 19th century like 'white australia' or 'manifest destiny'?

whether nationalism has an ancient scriptural provenance or is a hodge-podge of volkisch bavarian kitsch, gussied up by amphetamine-addled propagandists, isn't really that important. basically every modern nation state has an origin myth or 'tradition' that's largely an historiographical fiction.
These days people are msoty rational about this and aren't trying to live their lives or reshape the world according to some 'belief' which has dribbled down over exactly 3,000, not more or less, years.
Everything is great
2026-07-31 04:10:21
uziq
Member
+573|4277
i dunno man, somehow i feel like pernicious nation-state ideology, fabricated in the 19th century, isn't quite done with History yet.

two 'godless' world wars is pretty bad enough.
2026-07-31 04:23:39
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,854|6931|eXtreme to the maX
Of course we're not done, this will go on forever, but don't tell me a single 3,000 year old ideology is the right one and everyone else must die.
Everything is great
2026-07-31 05:45:43
uziq
Member
+573|4277
zionism is about as old as an ideology as any other chauvinistic nation-state-based ideology out of europe.

manifest destiny, white australia, lebensraum -- all these have way more in common with zionism's DNA than rabbinical traditions and the torah. in fact, it's pretty much a 50/50 split amongst orthodox sects who ARE very invested in jewish traditions as to whether israel and zionism should even be recognised. the jews that care most about all the 3000-year-old stuff are ironically the ones most likely to criticize israel – on theological grounds! the jews who are crazy ethnostate fascists are all ... dun dun dun ... second or third generation transplants from fucking american or european nation states and directly motivated by european political history, not bronze age myths.

i do believe that half of the nutjobs helping bibi cling to power in israel today are motivated by all that 'it was promised to us' stuff, but they're basically the jewish version of MAGA and shouldn't be confused with the israeli state, or even the right-wing aspect of it, in toto. for most of the 20th century even the aggressively zionist jews understood the project in terms that were basically an outgrowth of secular, modern nation-state politics, not ancient scripture. all that stuff was convenient window dressing for them, much like any 19th century nation with big ambitions started excavating their mythic pasts or folk traditions to buoy up their projects.

Last edited by uziq (2026-07-31 06:53:00)

 

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