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uziq
Member
+342|2202
i agree, in a globalised world it makes most sense for us all to stay in our borders, only eat our own local produce, and for every country to isolate and protect its labour markets. even better if we can produce our own electronics, automobiles, heavy industry, chemicals and raw materials, etc, completely self-sufficiently -- just like north korea, really.

on the bright side, the ozPhone will be a great success, i'm sure. you've got plenty of the rare earth minerals. just make sure you don't use it to communicate with anyone from outside your race, language, or national border -- it'll only contaminate the country.

Dilbert_X wrote:

If people stayed within their national borders and traded most of the problems of the last 2,000 years would not have occurred.
if only people had stayed within their own borders for the last 2,000 years! we wouldn't have problems like the french huguenot refugees bringing with them advanced craft techniques to the UK, or the dutch orange revolutionaries their advanced hydroponic crop-farming techniques which literally changed the food-supply of countries like the UK by upscaling its potential yields tenfold; or the transmission of the body of western knowledge across networks of medieval monasteries, thanks to travelling and itinerant scribes, scholars and churchmen; or the modern equivalent of vast, international collaborative science projects like CERN, or any current-day university department, really; or the rise of great commercial powers like the hanseatic league in northern europe or the City of London. it's not nationalism that has caused the biggest wars, it's polish plumbers working abroad for 15 years.

everyone stay put in closed-off, hermetic little ethnostates: your rival nation next door will trade you their best material and techniques! mutual self-interest and xenophobic mistrust is the best basis for prosperity -- just look at the UK and europe's imminent new trading relation.

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-27 04:32:20)

Larssen
Member
+43|637
Staying within borders for the last 2000 years what the fuck lol

Have you seen a map of 20 AD?

Also dilbert, borders do not exist in the physical realm yknow. Those lines are mostly imaginary.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+403|2469
I can understand the frustration of white Europeans when dealing with the issues that non-whites are bringing to their countries. Especially when it comes to services and taxes.

I teach children and am a brown person. Whenever non-white kids are aggressive and refuse to work, I too think "why are you people even here if you don't want to work"? And while it is true that white kids can also have issues, white kids as a whole are better students. And the issues with non-white students are localized mostly among African Americans and some Hispanics. The Hispanics who are into hip-hop culture at least. The more into Hispanic or white culture Hispanic students are into, the better students they are.

And Dilbert was right when he said most people don't actually contribute anything to the tax base. The disrespectful black kids are a net drain. And it doesn't help anyone to pretend otherwise.

I have some more stray observations if you want them.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+403|2469
When I was attending the teacher college I became friends with the head of the political science department. We were talking education and she said she notices that educated people tended to have conversations that included longer sentences and complete thoughts.

Something I have noticed myself: the kids who are bad students and the ones into Hip-hop tended to have conversations about people and their interactions with them rather than conversations about things (music, movies, news, etc.) Most of those "people conversations" revolved around confrontations and disrespect. I think I can probably pick out which kids would be problematic based solely on listening to their conversations with each other.
uziq
Member
+342|2202
i am convinced dilbert is beyond any sort of rational discussion and 'debate', he really is a limited and narrow-minded man.

he has his 'pessimistic realism' and 'scientific objectivity' like jay once had his rand and now has his national review. the lady's not for turning, etc.

if you present him with a study, reams of studies, meta-studies of studies, or a report, an official report, a government report, even, he'll dig down into it and wheedle out the most trivial methodological quibble; and then, having thrown it out, substitute it with the wildest most insupportable generalizations of his own. he's a bigot given to tabloid wild tales who goes over any countervailing opinion with a magnifying glass. these people aren't out to discuss anything, they're merely howling into a void to quell their own fears. watch out! china! jews! moselmen! poles! east anglians! people from the next valley over!  mummy!!!
uziq
Member
+342|2202

SuperJail Warden wrote:

And Dilbert was right when he said most people don't actually contribute anything to the tax base. The disrespectful black kids are a net drain. And it doesn't help anyone to pretend otherwise.
the takeaway from that fact is that bolshy, loud, bigoted natives don't get to act like they're supporting economic migrants out of the charity of their own pocket. they're not.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+403|2469

uziq wrote:

SuperJail Warden wrote:

And Dilbert was right when he said most people don't actually contribute anything to the tax base. The disrespectful black kids are a net drain. And it doesn't help anyone to pretend otherwise.
the takeaway from that fact is that bolshy, loud, bigoted natives don't get to act like they're supporting economic migrants out of the charity of their own pocket. they're not.
Of course. And I haven't ever heard of a good reason why low functioning whites should be given primacy over high functioning minorities regardless of where they are in the world.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+403|2469
And when most people talk about "protecting European culture" what they are usually thinking in their heads about is talking down to non-Europeans and them having to give up their seats on the bus. Really petty stuff.

Last edited by SuperJail Warden (2020-02-27 10:54:23)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,707|4856|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

Of course. And I haven't ever heard of a good reason why low functioning whites should be given primacy over high functioning minorities regardless of where they are in the world.
Then you must be pro-colonialist, shouldn't high functioning whites be able to displace low-functioning blacks?
Blows away the arguments for affirmative action for blacks too.

I haven't ever heard of a good reason why low functioning blacks should be given primacy over high functioning whites regardless of where they are in the world
Its racist to say that, but not the reverse, sad.
Epstein didn't kill himself
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+403|2469
I am the byproduct of colonialism more so than anyone here so you will never hear me complain about what the Europeans did in the America's.

I am generally against affirmative action even though I know I have been the recipient of it. I think affirmative action should only be used when filling public service jobs like police, teachers, judges. etc. The government should be representative of the people who live under it.

And while I am opposed to expanding affirmative action, you won't see me at a protest against it. I think that while affirmative action does more to upset whites than it helps fix the inequalities of blah blah blah, the people upset about it enough for it to matter will find something else to upset about. You can end affirmative action tomorrow and the white male janitors will still resent having to empty my classroom garbage. It is bitterly ironic that I know more about their ancestral culture and practices that they do too.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,707|4856|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

i am convinced dilbert is beyond any sort of rational discussion and 'debate', he really is a limited and narrow-minded man.

he has his 'pessimistic realism' and 'scientific objectivity' like jay once had his rand and now has his national review. the lady's not for turning, etc.

if you present him with a study, reams of studies, meta-studies of studies, or a report, an official report, a government report, even, he'll dig down into it and wheedle out the most trivial methodological quibble; and then, having thrown it out, substitute it with the wildest most insupportable generalizations of his own. he's a bigot given to tabloid wild tales who goes over any countervailing opinion with a magnifying glass. these people aren't out to discuss anything, they're merely howling into a void to quell their own fears. watch out! china! jews! moselmen! poles! east anglians! people from the next valley over!  mummy!!!
LOL OK, all the 'studies' you've presented are provably bunk.

I'm sure the Chinese view you and your pig-literature interests the same way white settlers viewed african natives and their superstitions, unworthy of the land they were squatting on and only good for slavery.
By your argument the Chinese should be free to displace you from your comfortable life, since, according to them, they're more intelligent, cultured, harder working and make better use of the available resources.
Bad luck for you and your kind I guess.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+342|2202
affirmative action, yes, highly relevant to the UK and its EU and non-EU migrants. all that damned affirmative action. political correctness gone mad!!!11
uziq
Member
+342|2202

Dilbert_X wrote:

uziq wrote:

i am convinced dilbert is beyond any sort of rational discussion and 'debate', he really is a limited and narrow-minded man.

he has his 'pessimistic realism' and 'scientific objectivity' like jay once had his rand and now has his national review. the lady's not for turning, etc.

if you present him with a study, reams of studies, meta-studies of studies, or a report, an official report, a government report, even, he'll dig down into it and wheedle out the most trivial methodological quibble; and then, having thrown it out, substitute it with the wildest most insupportable generalizations of his own. he's a bigot given to tabloid wild tales who goes over any countervailing opinion with a magnifying glass. these people aren't out to discuss anything, they're merely howling into a void to quell their own fears. watch out! china! jews! moselmen! poles! east anglians! people from the next valley over!  mummy!!!
LOL OK, all the 'studies' you've presented are provably bunk.

I'm sure the Chinese view you and your pig-literature interests the same way white settlers viewed african natives and their superstitions, unworthy of the land they were squatting on and only good for slavery.
By your argument the Chinese should be free to displace you from your comfortable life, since, according to them, they're more intelligent, cultured, harder working and make better use of the available resources.
Bad luck for you and your kind I guess.
sssssh baby dilbert, go to sleep. the chinese aren't going to enact the great replacement of white civilization any time soon. hush now baby don't cry.

i do a daily service for chinese authors who rely on me for publication. we have a shanghai office. i could work there, actually. good idea. china represents the biggest area of growth in academic publishing, and the biggest emerging market in english-language research. china is a fantastic and exciting opportunity.

see? migrants move to countries where they have a skill that is in demand by the host country. they pay taxes, evidently above the average net contribution, and everyone benefits. wow! it's an amazing idea! maybe some chinese people with unique skills can come here and contribute, too! wow what an exciting prospect! but i don't know that they'll be replacing my english language-oriented job any time soon! maybe you engineers who are only as good as the next human calculator, though!

i think i'm getting to why you have so much anxiety about the chinese. they don't care about western literature, you're right, but that doesn't mean they want to annexe oxbridge and turn them into iPhone factories. china is pouring all of its resources into engineering and technology, much like india with IT and programming. your whole anxieties are YOUR job anxieties, not mine. stop projecting, please, you peon. all those hints you've dropped over the years of being unhappy at your last few workplaces, increasingly undervalued, beholden to managers/consultants/etc, whilst your quality-of-life at work goes down the pan. you're the squeezed engineer who is seeing his status and standing drop at successive companies. the chinese are brute-forcing your industry and working 10x harder than you with people 10x more gifted at maths due to their schooling system and investment. what makes it so much worse is that you hapless dweebs have been riding through the 90s and 00s by massively over-investing in your identities as 'engineers', developing your dweeby little superiority complexes and farming your karma in the /r/engineeringmasterrace sub-reddit.

now you get HVAC gammons like jay going full pro-trump, job protection for the inferior western engineer. and dilbert, lathe operator extraordinaire, who can only cling to his 'scientific' racism and sense of superiority from the confines of his mother's carpeted-walls basement. i am FINALLY understanding this picture!

meanwhile i'm working at a not-for-profit, happy as larry, reading all day, without a worry in the world. i'm respected in my work and fulfilled by it. i couldn't care a fig if the UK is the world's 4th biggest economy or the 12th biggest economy, it hardly affects me and my job/studies/career in the english arts-and-culture sector. i'm happy with the standard of lifestyle i have now and it's certainly not going to be robbed because of china's continued growth. there are plenty of unconcerned literature bores and editors in the denmarks and netherlands of this world.

you've just been projecting this whole fucking time. you little pissy bitch!

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-27 15:30:56)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,707|4856|eXtreme to the maX
Ah, you're ready to sell out to anyone who will pay you, so as long as you're OK then fuck your fellow citizens.

Glad you've set that out so clearly.

However I'm confident you'll soon be redundant, when the world is forced to publish papers in chinese or they decide theirs is good enough and they don't need proof-readers.
Won't it be fun when you have to rewrite all the great works into chinglish?
"Pa Pirrip, me Philip, me call Pip. So, call Pip, friends call Pip. Me Pip!"

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2020-02-27 17:22:20)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+342|2202
last time i checked the official government report said that economic migrants are a net contribution. my fellow citizens are benefitting.

plenty has been written about how the NHS will face staff shortages, universities will lose lecturers, the UK will lose lots of valued workers, and lose tax. there was even a point, made by the economist, those prime paddlers of bad arguments, saying that my fellow citizens are better off in terms of population/retirement burden.

you are yet to link me a single thing, a single salutary fucking thing, that shows the harms of EU migrants. you're very good at stereotypes about 'tax avoiding poles with large families' and ahistorical fucking nonsense like 'all the trouble in europe over the last 2,000 years comes from mixing'. but very light on evidence???

feel free!

until then i look forward to the massive opportunities that china presents for us people prudent enough to get a degree in the humanities. too bad, the amazing mr. abacus!

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-27 17:21:04)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,707|4856|eXtreme to the maX
So you believe whatever the govt tells you.

Apart from cross-border wars and consequential refugee mass-migration what other problems has Europe faced?

As we've already established, no EU migrant worker is going anywhere, if they're there now they're entitled to remain in the UK.
There'll be a steady transition over the next 10-20 years, not really a crisis and the sky isn't apparently falling.

I recommend you start learning Chinese, probably a STEM subject also because they don't give a shit about the humanities.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+342|2202
feel free to show some support of your argument. it shouldn't be hard. you have a STEM degree! find some evidence.

lots of EU migrants have already lost their teaching posts and jobs. they do not have automatic full Visas for employment. many others are opting to leave because of the marked change in atmosphere, of 'not feeling welcome', and frankly who can blame them -- contribute more to the tax pot than the dumb natives for 10-15 years and then get kicked out as 'thanks'.

also i never said the sky was falling. you said i was at risk to the rise of china, which i safely dispatched. my job is thriving because of china at present. it doesn't matter at all if they care about humanities, because the economic rise of china isn't going to affect the culture industry or book-buying public in the west, is it? do you have a fucking clue what you're talking about? i don't work in an industry that has any direct competition from china, you moron. closer integration and more cross-lingual exposure will only add to potential growth, not take away! christ this isn't complicated.

as for 'fuck your fellow citizens' talk, i don't think that way at all, but all the analysis is pointing in the direction that says brexit is an economic self-wounding on several levels by those who voted most vociferously for it. you have rubbed your hands with glee over this several times before. as soon as i point out that part of that self-wounding involves kicking out actually quite valuable EU workers, you change your tune and accuse me of selfishness or something.

you are honestly impossible to pin down to any position. you just come here out of sheer boredom and to kick dirt in people's eyes. sad!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,707|4856|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

as for 'fuck your fellow citizens' talk, i don't think that way at all

uziq wrote:

i couldn't care a fig if the UK is the world's 4th biggest economy or the 12th biggest economy, it hardly affects me and my job/studies/career in the english arts-and-culture sector.

uziq wrote:

also i never said the sky was falling

uziq wrote:

plenty has been written about how the NHS will face staff shortages, universities will lose lecturers, the UK will lose lots of valued workers
lots of EU migrants have already lost their teaching posts and jobs
I think you mean their short-term contracts have not been renewed.

Try to develop a bit of rigour there son.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+342|2202
none of those things are contradictory?

if other people’s Brexit decisions shrinks the UK’s economy and role in the world, it doesn’t bother me one bit. i’m happy with my lifestyle here. this was in response to your continual scaremongering about migrants or ‘the chinese’ (talk about consistency, when you flip flop between catastrophe scenarios like a fish on the dock ...) causing the loss of everyone’s job. i think we are comfortable. i’m okay with the prospect of us settling into a second-tier power. it’s the fate of most imperial mother countries.

though i do suspect the pro-brexit lot, who have much in common with you, will feel differently about such a thing, despite effectively voting purposefully for it.

saying that we are going to lose lots of valuable contributors is a statement of fact. i never once claimed ‘the sky is falling’. the only person with such drastic and dramatic rhetoric in this discussion is you. i am pointing to the clear and material difference that losing EU migrants, such as hospital staff, yes, but also farm workers and the whole range of ‘undesirable’ unskilled labour, will incur to the nation’s economy. how is that saying ‘the sky is falling’? almost all the economic analysis, not least that of the bank of england and treasury, say that we are in for short-term shocks and losses — which obviously involves the material loss of valuable persons.

you’re projecting your own anxious and fearful state of mind onto me and then accusing me of hypocrisy. a very novel discussion technique. ‘expressionist debate’? my comments about my own career, my own views about the likely future loss of power/status etc. are only there to point to the fact that i precisely DON’T have any great emotional investment in these matters (again, seemingly unlike you who, again, doesn’t even live in the country...). you accuse me of hypocrisy for being personally motivated and then accuse me of hypocrisy for not caring enough.

work it out for yourself.

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-28 01:47:34)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,707|4856|eXtreme to the maX
https://i.imgur.com/X4eHLk4.jpg
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+342|2202
you have nothing worth saying beyond expressing your own biases, seemingly not a single datum of evidence in support of your claims, and no reasoning to support your grandiose historical generalisations.

i look forward to you joining your local congregation and buying healing crystals, seeing as you've gone full retard on the irrationalism and can't present a single 'man of science'  argument for anything you're saying, and seeing as you're mistrustful and paranoiac of seemingly every source outside of your own dark cavernous Unconscious.

who would have thought it could be so taxing, asking a scientist for evidence to support a claim?

instead we have 'the jews are behind everything', 'china are going to wipe out the whites', 'that is, if the immigrants don't manage their secret infiltration first', and, the pièce de résistance, 'the last 2,000 years in europe would be much better if people didn't mix'.

congratulations, you've turned D&ST into infowars.

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-28 04:44:56)

uziq
Member
+342|2202
people should stick to their own!!!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ER5DxVvXUAYVdv-?format=jpg&name=medium

map of the holy roman empire ~1350 AD.

Last edited by uziq (2020-02-28 13:33:55)

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+403|2469
i like maps
uziq
Member
+342|2202
europe's problems began, you see, when the bohemians mixed with the men of altmark.
uziq
Member
+342|2202
the top civil servant in the UK has resigned because of the ideologues in control.

the lot peddling dilbert's line about immigration and UK workers, incidentally.

what could possibly go wrong?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p … 45151.html

Priti Patel has been branded “clueless” after claiming that labour shortages caused by her tough new immigration plans could be filled by 8.5 million “economically inactive” people in the UK.

The home secretary was speaking as sectors from care homes to construction to farming warned that they will face difficulty recruiting enough staff after the points-based system comes into force at the end of the year.

But official figures from the Office for National Statistics show that the 8.5 million 16- to 64-year-olds currently not seeking work include around 2.3 million students and 2.1 million long-term sick, as well as more than 1.1 million who are retired and 1.9 million who are looking after their family or home. Fewer than 1.9 million of the total were recorded as wanting a job.

The IPPR think tank calculated that Ms Patel’s immigration plans – which replace free movement with a requirement for most migrants to have a job offer worth £25,600 or more – would rule out around 70 per cent of EU workers currently in the country, delivering a “shock” to key sectors of the economy.

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