Announcement

SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+575|3100
Black urban culture, just like white American culture, is American consumer culture but in a different flavor. Urban blacks want the same expensive cars, fancy clothes, and party drugs white people want and make a tremendous amount of money producing. 

And do you people even know how much "Black Entertainment" is actually owned by major corporations and white wall street billionaires? Death Row Records, who produced the hardest "gangsta rap" of the 90's with Snoop Dog, Dr. Dre, and 2Pac is now a subsidiary of the toy company that also makes Magic the Gathering.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Row_Records
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_One
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasbro

The people who produced this

also produces GI Joe, and Magic the Gathering



My point: If black culture is a culture of nihilism, then so American consumer culture.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+470|2832
the underclass are nothing even remotely like nihilist. anyone who describes an underclass lifestyle as 'bacchanalian' is not worth listening to. read a book.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+575|3100
In other news, CHAZ is going to be dismantled. The city of Seattle said they are going to reoccupy the police precinct.

There were two shootings in the CHAZ, one of which was fatal IIRC. And yes, it was blacks shooting blacks. You can't make this up.
https://media.giphy.com/media/IyxPVz7kG8nsUkek5Y/200.gif
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,948|6012|949

Don't refer to black people as "blacks" or "the blacks". Its dehumanizing
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,724|6117|Oxferd Ohire
No he's on the right path to become a policeman.
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|4738|London, England

uziq wrote:

the underclass are nothing even remotely like nihilist. anyone who describes an underclass lifestyle as 'bacchanalian' is not worth listening to. read a book.
Oh, are they reading Faust in their public housing units? Their entire lives are based on chasing simple pleasures. Drugs, sex, music, partying, violence, envy, they check all of the Seven Deadly Sins boxes. There's no self improvement. There's no long term planning. They live for today and have no hope for tomorrow. It's amazing that the leisure class at the top, and the underclass at the bottom, have much the same tastes and lifestyle. The only thing that really separates them is money. And yet you piss on the one for having too much, and hold up the second as some sort of ideal for having too little. Those damn bourgeoisie and their contemptible judgement and moralizing...
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Larssen
Member
+93|1268
There's a difference here being that nihilism is a consciously pursued philosophical outlook that really isn't so much concerned with checking all the 'seven deadly sins' boxes. It mostly just attacks notions of intrinsic meaning and purpose. I mean nietzsche also argued for us to pursue to better ourselves, with the übermensch concept and all.

What the 'underclass' (I'm not sure I like using this term) suffers from is a higher prevalence of depression, detachment and related chasing of short term gratification. Of course there's also plenty of stupid people in poverty / dire economic circumstances who can't seem to help themselves and who do throw away their money/time/life mostly for what you mention. But considering the current structure of society you can't blame those in poverty as a group for being poor and making bad life decisions.

Just yesterday I saw an interesting repost: https://www.cnbc.com/2013/12/04/switche … verty.html (better article)

How's that for reigniting debates on nature vs nurture: a Japanese man accidentally switched at birth between a rich and a poor family. The 'poor' kid grows up to be CEO of a real estate business, the 'rich' kid a life in poverty, unmarried and a truck driver.

Last edited by Larssen (2020-06-23 12:39:27)

KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,948|6012|949

I still recommend the documentary where Billy Ray Valentine swaps places with Louis Winthorpe III to trade orange juice futures.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|4738|London, England
That cubs uniform tho
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
uziq
Member
+470|2832

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

the underclass are nothing even remotely like nihilist. anyone who describes an underclass lifestyle as 'bacchanalian' is not worth listening to. read a book.
Oh, are they reading Faust in their public housing units? Their entire lives are based on chasing simple pleasures. Drugs, sex, music, partying, violence, envy, they check all of the Seven Deadly Sins boxes. There's no self improvement. There's no long term planning. They live for today and have no hope for tomorrow. It's amazing that the leisure class at the top, and the underclass at the bottom, have much the same tastes and lifestyle. The only thing that really separates them is money. And yet you piss on the one for having too much, and hold up the second as some sort of ideal for having too little. Those damn bourgeoisie and their contemptible judgement and moralizing...
lmao i don't know where you're getting this bullshit from but you are wading into deep and opaque waters of stupid.

leave this sort of jeremiad-ranting to the david brooks of the world. it doesn't suit you.

'seven deadly sins' lmao. and then you talk about nihilism. my guy, please just stop.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+575|3100

uziq wrote:

Jay wrote:

uziq wrote:

the underclass are nothing even remotely like nihilist. anyone who describes an underclass lifestyle as 'bacchanalian' is not worth listening to. read a book.
Oh, are they reading Faust in their public housing units? Their entire lives are based on chasing simple pleasures. Drugs, sex, music, partying, violence, envy, they check all of the Seven Deadly Sins boxes. There's no self improvement. There's no long term planning. They live for today and have no hope for tomorrow. It's amazing that the leisure class at the top, and the underclass at the bottom, have much the same tastes and lifestyle. The only thing that really separates them is money. And yet you piss on the one for having too much, and hold up the second as some sort of ideal for having too little. Those damn bourgeoisie and their contemptible judgement and moralizing...
lmao i don't know where you're getting this bullshit from but you are wading into deep and opaque waters of stupid.

leave this sort of jeremiad-ranting to the david brooks of the world. it doesn't suit you.

'seven deadly sins' lmao. and then you talk about nihilism. my guy, please just stop.
I can't be bothered to look up the National Review articles but Jay is totally parroting them. Over at NR they argue the traditional conservative line that poverty and urban decline is due to the moral and intellectual failure of the poor instead of anything like structural inequality or late stage capitalism.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+470|2832
the fecklessness of the poor is a conservative 'plaint as old as time itself. yes, on the surface level you can identify poor long-term planning and seemingly impulsive decision-making; but this is purely descriptive. it's a version of that overdone 'cheap shoes' logic. rich people have more money so they can invest, purchase property, acquire nice things that last, etc. money really does breed more money and more stability than hard labour and graft (this is the central takeaway from piketty's 'capital' fyi). if you're poor, you have no stake in anything, cannot foresee a time when you ever will, and furthermore you fritter away your cash on short-term satisfactions to allay the crushing tedium/boredom/depression of it all.

bourgeois people have careers. the poor do not. a career and a purpose in life is a fine thing. doing dead-end precarious jobs or serving rich people, not so much. it's a self-perpetuating cycle and is not down to some 'moral failure' in the urban poor.

as for seven deadly sins ... why are you entering the register of christian moralism to denounce 'nihilists'? nihilism is the questioning of all value. the entire, main, clichéd contribution of nietzsche to western philosophy is the overturning of all values, transvaluation, the eternal recurrence of same, etc. nihilists do not see categories of virtue and sin: that's rather the whole point.

mostly i think jay is just roleplaying being the sort of middle-class suburbanite that he so desperately wants to become. this is golf-club talk, of the most priggish and petit-bourgeois variety imaginable. 'that's the problem with the poor, they have no long-term planning. by the way, how's your house price doing, jeff?'. jay wants to escape any taint or association a little too eagerly, and it shows.

Last edited by uziq (2020-06-23 14:19:57)

Larssen
Member
+93|1268
It's a common theme for those who grow up poor and find succes to despise poor people. I can understand some of it because being in an environment of failure and poverty is toxic. Dropouts, drug abusers, the chronically unemployed, surrounded by decrepit buildings and infrastructure, often stripped of any greenery - poverty is humanity's sewer. Even on a beautiful day it will still be a mentally taxing place. Yet instead of recognising the effects of environment and circumstance, scorn will mostly be placed on the people who live there.

I suppose the narrative built up in their heads is that their own determination is the sole reason they escaped poverty. It might be true to an extent, after all individually we have different abilities, and our choices do affect our lot in life. But it's honestly quite sad when someone who got out turns around and believes their own deserved succes also means others' deserved failure. The beggar is deplorable, the woman who can't take care of her kids negligent, the teenager in a gang deserving of death.

Is it narcissism? Self-hatred? A lack of introspection? Or the remaining hopelessness of poverty? A stuck belief that things cannot be another way..
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,724|6117|Oxferd Ohire
This is the noose that NASCAR got up in arms about but turns out it was just a loop
https://i.imgur.com/RX9hBJg.jpg

Now their fans are having a field day.
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+575|3100
I think it says a lot about National Review as a source when they write articles about how the urban poor are there mostly due to their own bad choices over generations. It is definitely pandering to the American middle class worldview. And that's fine because they need to sell magazines, ads, and magazines with ads. But NR also wants to be seen as the serious and true voice of the conservative movement. And you are not politically serious if you still buy into small government market capitalism as a system.

Free trade and globalism hasn't worked out for the west in the last 25 years at least. Something needs to change. And no one wants globalism anymore either. Socialist aren't defending it. MAGA people don't want anything from anywhere else either. It's a politically losing position to hold and that's one of the reasons why NR is going broke while Breitbart sells big by telling people we need to cut off from China and elsewhere.

National Review is going hard on how awful the BLM thing has been and it is a desperate move. They are trying to scare people into forgetting that they supported the sort of outsourcing to Asia that has lead to the American economy being 20% restaurants and entertainment that are not useful in a pandemic.
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
uziq
Member
+470|2832
‘traditional’ conservatism has always involved stoking up the flames of culture wars whilst strip-mining assets and the economy. pander to emotive issues whilst you and your friends/class line their pockets.
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+575|3100
In other racial drama, I was watching a lecture about the Crusades by a very well known professor who was hosted by a Catholic group. While he doesn't condone the Crusades, he does explain how they were more complicated than "Christians victimized Muslims".




The very first question asked by the audience was cringe worthy and totally ruined the mood of the whole thing. And it made you realize the kind of audience that goes to these things.
https://youtu.be/pFt1ZRVqNOE?t=2941
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
SuperJail Warden
Gone Forever
+575|3100
But why?

https://media.tenor.com/images/753742ddf3883c000a6fe0fba66d318a/tenor.gif
https://i.imgur.com/xsoGn9X.jpg
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,987|6152|USA

I can't wait to hear how much of a horrible person Elijah McClain was, a massage therapist who played music for shelter cats, that he deserved being tortured and drugged in 2019.

This pops up again as the petition to reopen investigation breaks 2 million signatures.

I wonder if Hollis will ask for a BF2S paycheck on this one, and in what way this incident does not support that overblown, mythical, laughable theory of an epidemic of police brutality.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,783|5486|eXtreme to the maX

Jay wrote:

Oh, are they reading Faust in their public housing units? Their entire lives are based on chasing simple pleasures. Drugs, sex, music, partying, violence, envy, they check all of the Seven Deadly Sins boxes. There's no self improvement. There's no long term planning. They live for today and have no hope for tomorrow. It's amazing that the leisure class at the top, and the underclass at the bottom, have much the same tastes and lifestyle. The only thing that really separates them is money. And yet you piss on the one for having too much, and hold up the second as some sort of ideal for having too little. Those damn bourgeoisie and their contemptible judgement and moralizing...
If only they could all sign up to kill heathens for Israel and marry into a rich family.

There's some truth to what you're saying, many don't know how or have the inclination to help themselves.
But there really aren't enough opportunities to go around, nor is there enough money with the 1% siphoning it away and ring-fencing it.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,783|5486|eXtreme to the maX

SuperJail Warden wrote:

But why?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KNKNoPnbjs
So thats two black guys who faked a noose to get attention.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
uziq
Member
+470|2832
amusing how the right-wing like to put up 'reading faust' on some pedestal of 'worthiness' when it suits them, but will hack away humanities, liberal arts, 'college snobs', etc. when they need to make a contrary argument. the right-wing entertain some very equivocal views about 'high culture'. too much of it is surely dangerous! but of course the poor could use it to improve their lot, er, somehow.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,987|6152|USA

Even if it is on the back of a false alarm, I don't really find the footing Nascar put itself on to be much of a gotcha moment in terms of bigger picture.
uziq
Member
+470|2832
does nascar even matter to 80% of americans? it has no cultural presence here whatsoever.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,987|6152|USA

uziq wrote:

does nascar even matter to 80% of americans? it has no cultural presence here whatsoever.
I live in Washington, and never a state where it was very popular, so never really experienced it in terms of an "American cultural phenomenon" beyond its stereotype as a sport rednecks and hillbillies are enthralled with.

Here's a quora on the technical side of why Nascar is boring.

I guess people are mad at their zero tolerance ban of the confederate flag and are trying to use the noose thing as a wedge.

Unrelated:


Elmo has had a storied history of angering radio and television pundits.

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