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Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4670

Drones are those unmanned flying things that are used to blow up people with missles. Sometimes we end up blowing up innocent people with these. Also the U.S. government claims to have a right to blow up American citizens without any oversight if it considers them a threat to America. We have blown up a bunch of U.S. citizens overseas that have joined terrorist groups.

I think drones are good because the alternative of putting people on the ground will cause more deaths. But I don't believe the U.S. government should be able to drone strike U.S. citizens. Citizenship is a contract and the government should not be allowed to break it without oversight. Where are our liberty protecting gun owners?
pirana6
Go Cougs!
+645|5375|Washington St.
Camera drones: yes
Missile drones: dunno
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|5584|so randum
i don't really mind the idea of drones. its one less person 'on the ground', but there's still a real person at the other end pulling the trigger.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,760|5237|what

If it wasn't a drone it would be a chopper/A10 etc

I don't agree with targeting people from the seat of one though, there is too much of a disconnect to reality and killing someone is pushing a button from miles away.

Call one in as support, sure. But seek and destroy I don't think can clearly identify each possible threat, hence the civilian deaths.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|5584|so randum

AussieReaper wrote:

If it wasn't a drone it would be a chopper/A10 etc

I don't agree with targeting people from the seat of one though, there is too much of a disconnect to reality and killing someone is pushing a button from miles away.

Call one in as support, sure. But seek and destroy I don't think can clearly identify each possible threat, hence the civilian deaths.
i'd say there's as much if not more disconnect involved in being a cas pilot. there's that apache footage of the guy almost sounding like he was commentating on a CoD video for example.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|3339

FatherTed wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

If it wasn't a drone it would be a chopper/A10 etc

I don't agree with targeting people from the seat of one though, there is too much of a disconnect to reality and killing someone is pushing a button from miles away.

Call one in as support, sure. But seek and destroy I don't think can clearly identify each possible threat, hence the civilian deaths.
i'd say there's as much if not more disconnect involved in being a cas pilot. there's that apache footage of the guy almost sounding like he was commentating on a CoD video for example.
or like prince harry actually piloting an apache and saying the exact same thing re: killing the taliban
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|5584|so randum
'taking them out of the game' etc i guess you're referring to.

i suppose it's all part of helping them compartmentalize what they do, although i've no doubt that it literally is CoD:BO3 to a few people that sign up (shifty/warman types)
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,927|5856|USA

Macbeth wrote:

Drones are those unmanned flying things that are used to blow up people with missles. Sometimes we end up blowing up innocent people with these.
I don't see a huge moral difference between drones blowing up innocent people and troops blowing up innocent people. When we start deploying intelligent, fully autonomous ones (drones, not troops), then I'll quirk an eyebrow.
Adams_BJ
Turns out you were cucked
+2,044|5707|Little Bentcock
Go nuts, use what you want.
Uzique The Lesser
Banned
+382|3339

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Drones are those unmanned flying things that are used to blow up people with missles. Sometimes we end up blowing up innocent people with these.
I don't see a huge moral difference between drones blowing up innocent people and troops blowing up innocent people. When we start deploying intelligent, fully autonomous ones (drones, not troops), then I'll quirk an eyebrow.
this is frivolous in the extreme. a huge part of war, historically, has always been 'honour' ethics. there is a certain decorum about taking another's life, and it should be done properly. there have been some pretty absurd protocols and traditions formed around thus, sure, but 'honour' and 'respect' have always had their (admittedly fairly arbitrary, yet nonetheless essential) place in the rituals of warfare & armed conflict. removing the human agent from killing and making it mechanical, or depersonalized, or disconnected from the reality... is bad. it makes monsters of both protagonist and antagonist, simultaneously.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,927|5856|USA

I'm not entirely sure there was much honor and decorum involved in the rapings and pillagings of medieval villages by invaders (e: or said villages' own lords). That said, the frilly pomp of war seems to have been losing steam ever since the advent of things like photography and poison gas roiling through frozen, muddy trenches filled with miserable teenagers killing one another because some pompous asshole told them to. But hey, you get to go back home and have your government tell you to fuck off about any vet benefits.

Maybe just being able to decommission a fucking robot rather than take care of it for the next 80 years or so will take some of the bullshit out of it. Dare we hope that the stark, dehumanization of war will finally drain away our taste for it?
Adams_BJ
Turns out you were cucked
+2,044|5707|Little Bentcock
The only honour was between officers.
A2TG2
Hazbeen
+67|3609|at your six
They do not separate the population that owns them from the moral responsibility of the killings.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,760|5237|what

FatherTed wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

If it wasn't a drone it would be a chopper/A10 etc

I don't agree with targeting people from the seat of one though, there is too much of a disconnect to reality and killing someone is pushing a button from miles away.

Call one in as support, sure. But seek and destroy I don't think can clearly identify each possible threat, hence the civilian deaths.
i'd say there's as much if not more disconnect involved in being a cas pilot. there's that apache footage of the guy almost sounding like he was commentating on a CoD video for example.
When a cas pilot ends a mission they fly back to the base, land. Are debriefed and return to barracks.

When a drone pilot ends a mission, they set the thing to auto pilot and then stand up. The next guy can sit down half way through a mission if he wanted to and be at the controls.

There is absolutely no threat to themselves of being killed or wounded. And a malfunction won't kill them. Pilot error doesn't put their life at risk.

I see a far greater disconnect for a drone pilot.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
BVC
Member
+325|5780
Within the context of overseas military operations, I don't see a problem with them.  In some cases, they perform the same missions which otherwise might have been performed by a manned vehicle, thus reducing the overall life toll (aircraft shot down, supply truck bombed etc).  They can also come with a logistics/maintenance advantage too - no ejector seat or life support systems to supply and maintain.

When it comes to domestic use, thats a little more tricky.  I can see there are some situations where it might be practical.  They (combat drones) are really just another kind of weapon, and should be treated as such.

Last edited by BVC (2013-02-14 15:58:35)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,927|5856|USA

BVC wrote:

They (combat drones) are really just another kind of weapon, and should be treated as such.
Roger, roger.
1stSFOD-Delta
Mike "The Spooge Gobbler" Morales
+376|5062|Blue Mountain State
I've watched live Predator drone feed in the talk as it launched a Hellfire at a DShK position.

I've also had to go help ANA pick up five dead dudes that got hit by one in the Pech.

Yeah they're pretty cool.
https://www.itwirx.com/other/hksignature.jpg

Baba Booey
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,760|5237|what

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

BVC wrote:

They (combat drones) are really just another kind of weapon, and should be treated as such.
Roger, roger.
What's our clearance, Clarence?
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
1stSFOD-Delta
Mike "The Spooge Gobbler" Morales
+376|5062|Blue Mountain State
Took this on the way back home at JAF.

https://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss227/DeltaBF2s/BA0D8D4B-F1D6-4297-AF0B-23B6B8201C22-3205-00000324AA57E07E.jpg
https://www.itwirx.com/other/hksignature.jpg

Baba Booey
BVC
Member
+325|5780
I guess they also have the potential to change the numbers game.  Is XXX nation's 50million-strong army really such a great threat when you can pump out shit-tonnes of high tech drones or sentry guns?

Also,
http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/83098 … e-warfare/
...
US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta announced on Wednesday that for the first time the Pentagon is creating a medal that can be awarded to soldiers who have a direct impact on combat operations, but do it from afar.
...
https://static.stuff.co.nz/1360888263/846/8309846.jpg

Last edited by BVC (2013-02-14 17:19:28)

Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|4670

BVC wrote:

I guess they also have the potential to change the numbers game.  Is XXX nation's 50million-strong army really such a great threat when you can pump out shit-tonnes of high tech drones or sentry guns?

Also,
http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/83098 … e-warfare/
...
US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta announced on Wednesday that for the first time the Pentagon is creating a medal that can be awarded to soldiers who have a direct impact on combat operations, but do it from afar.
...
Award requires 10,000 drone kills.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,927|5856|USA

And 250 hours played.
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|5581

Obama's a statpadder.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4442|London, England
The way we're using drones today to conduct undeclared wars is abhorrent. To place that much power in the hands of one man, the president, is obscene. He gets to play judge, jury and executioner and answers to no one. Drones in support of ground troops in a war that Congress has approved of, yes. Drones on their own launching attacks without anyones say-so but the president? No. I understand why neo-cons and hawkish liberals love them: they allow them to carry out their aggressive foreign policy without having to answer to the public. Boots on the ground means casualties, and casualties mean protests and lost elections. Between Yemen, and Pakistan, and Mali, and Libya, our president has widened the scope of the war and pushed his own power far beyond what any one man should ever possess. He is not god, and he should not attempt to play that role.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,927|5856|USA

https://i.imgur.com/6Eep3HZ.jpg

This deal is getting worse all the time.

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