BF2S Forums Japan, our need for them, war etc.

ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ wrote:

Cameronpoe wrote:

You neglect to consider that Japan and Germany were thoroughly westernised and modern nations prior to WWII

Yeah Japan was real westernized ? more like polar opposites..

CameronPoe wrote:

who were UTTERLY defeated in battle and had no choice but to bend to the will of the victors.

Some truth but they hardly had laser guided munitions then and to achieve the allies goals we decimated the entire country. Instead America today uses precision and destroyed their capability to fight conventional warfare.

CameronPoe wrote:

where 'victory' has only occurred in the minds of Donald Rumsfeld et al.

Cessation of all conventional warfare and the destruction of the Republican guard in record time is without a doubt a 'victory' of sorts. I'm well aware you enjoy demeaning and discrediting the accomplishments of these men but its only because of your own ignorance of the subject and biased support for anything anti-American that supports it. Rumsfeld and company certainly underestimated the insurgency among other things but had we truly been an oppressive and imperialistic regime and not granted Iraqi's freedom then installed a police state like the Russians did to the Germans. Also if you believe that the Germans just laid down after official surrender you're wrong Read up about the German Werewolf

I also don't accept your contention that Islam and democracy cant coexist I'm sure there are a few million American and British muslims that disagree with you.

LOL

You can throw your 'Anti-American' taunt around all you want, it ain't true. Just because I present positions contrary to yours doesn't mean I'm anti-American. You probably think Americans who hold similar views are Anti-American - and that really is Anti-American!!!

a) Japan embraced western culture under American auspices circa 1850. Hence the reason they were so far advanced of regional threats such as China in terms of technology and resourcefulness. Read up on it.
b) What are you going to fire your precision guided laser weapons at? You can't tell who the fuck is who for christ's sake!!!! Read up on guerrilla warfare, it's an interesting and almost undefeatable warfare tactic you know. Conventional warfare is dead. Get with the program. Has the IRA been militarily defeated yet? No. Has FARC been defeated yet? No. Has Fatah or Hamas been defeated yet? No. Has Hezbollah been defeated yet? No. THe list goes on. I think war chiefs need to start rethinking their strategies.
c) Are you trying to equate a protest at pay cuts in oppressive Soviet East Germany with the bloodthirsty suicide-bombtastic insurgency in Iraq? Please. Total deaths <= 267. Your analogy is laughable. Popularity and sustainablity of Werewolf: pathetically poor. Good analogy for the middle east? Don't make me laugh.
d) Personally I hope you're right about Islam and democracy. I do think that certain muslims, especially in Afghanistan, are still entrenched in traditional thinking though.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-30 04:04:00)

CameronPoe wrote:

a) Japan embraced western culture under American auspices circa 1850. Hence the reason they were so far advanced of regional threats such as China in terms of technology and resourcefulness. Read up on it.

just a little correction to add on this topic. japan acutally tried to defend it's country against as many western influences as possible. they acutally have been forced to open towards the western countries by commodre perry and his superior fleet (leaving dejima out of this, since the relationship to the dutch has always been quite well)
but that of course does not change the fact that they were quite ahead of other countries in that region - too bad they didnt put that advantage to good use. but then again they probably just followed the example made by european countries.

ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ wrote:

wow cockblower.. actually charles kades wrote the fuckin new japanese constitution

And?  It's still the Japanese constitution.

Further, your original statement is false:  the Japanese surrender was to the Allied Powers, as represented by Douglas MacArthur, not to the US.

And now, you look even dumber.  Don't you feel proud.

P.S.  Charles Kades is hardly a founding father, Japan was a nation long before that constitution was written.

Eboreus:  Once the Japanese were forced to enter into the world stage, however (IIRC by a gunship not a fleet), they quickly embraced Western industrialism and imperialism, unlike China, who continued to resist, and suffered for it.

Bubbalo wrote:

Eboreus:  Once the Japanese were forced to enter into the world stage, however (IIRC by a gunship not a fleet), they quickly embraced Western industrialism and imperialism, unlike China, who continued to resist, and suffered for it.

yeah sorry - the first visit was a single ship but the 2nd included a fleet.
as for the "quick embrace": i think it depends on how you define quick. compared to their long history it was very quick indeed but it still took a while until the meiji government was established. during this time it was very obvious, that the old elites were trying to fight off the western influence. eventually they lost to the revolution tho.

1)  Japan will not be allowed to get nukes by it's own constitution

2)  Nukes are the real threat from North Korea.  Chemical weapons are.

3)  Japan are signatories to the Non-Proliferation Treaty.

Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-08-30 04:27:18)

The constitution may allow nukes if they are for defence only, hence nuclear deterrent. And true, North Korea has many chemical and biological factories. Scary stuff. Hopefully the North Korean people will one day realise that their dear leader is a despot and should be removed from power.

No, nuclear weapons are of a defensive nature. It stops an enemy from attacking you as they will be completely destroyed. Hence the term MAD, Mutual Assured Destruction, if an enemy attacks you they run the risk of being completely destroyed. Nuclear weapons are deployed as the ultimate defence of a country. Although I would not avocate that all countries have them. There are enough now.

japans only good for 1 thingy, pretty good food and weird sex videos

looking at how many lifes hitler wasted without nukes, i highly doubt that he would have cared about you having nukes. and even if he didnt attack england or france, he'd still have attacked poland and so on. nukes create fear and if a country can defend itself only by sawing fear all over the world, they should honestly reconsider their politics imo.

Bubbalo wrote:

DirtyMexican wrote:

If we had nuclear weapons in the WWII era, Germany and Japan wouldn't have attacked though fear of being nuked. No one would have been conscripted. France would have taken out Germany with its nukes before Paris fell.

That still doesn't make them defensive weapons.  Further, they probably just would have thrown the first nuke.  And you assume that France would have had nukes.

dirty mexican didnt write thate =/

well nukes to me is not for defense, its totally for offense... if its for defence then why would you need ICBM's for it? nuclear arms was to make your enemeies afraid of your countries capabilities. sooner or later theyll start making satellites that fires lasers from space...

Cameron you got a problem trying to put shit into my mouth trying to turn the shit i say into a lie. I didnt say you were anti-American but that you support anything thats anti-American and I've seen it. Absolutely any topic that sheds America in a bad light whether factual based or heresay you will promote as the truth. Now i didnt equate the german resistance to occupation I simply refrenced it.. you being the jackass you are simply must blow shit out of proportion and spin. You say that the Germans had no resistance and "bent to the will" but that isnt true there were many hardliners that killed hundreds of allied troops well after 1945.

Japan embraced western technology NOT the culture. America FORCED and they resented it..

Bubbalo wrote:

Charles Kades is hardly a founding father, Japan was a nation long before that constitution was written.

Oh I missed where I said we created Japan .. hence the word NEW?... And given the close relations we hold with Japan today its a safe assumption if they wish to revise the constitution WE wrote for them they would certainly have discourse with the country that defeated them and implemented it.

Bubbalo wrote:

Afghanistan, Iraq, I have yet to see the situation in Kuwait................

The ones which get well built are the ones useful to US (Western Europe and Asia going into Cold War).

This is among your most ignorant comments. Firstly as to Kuwait unless you live under a rock Kuwait has prospered. Secondly I'd love to hear how you can spin Vietnam South Korea Japan Germany or Italy as being more "usefull" to America than Iraq or Afghanistan.

ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ wrote:

This is among your most ignorant comments. Firstly as to Kuwait unless you live under a rock Kuwait has prospered. Secondly I'd love to hear how you can spin Vietnam South Korea Japan Germany or Italy as being more "usefull" to America than Iraq or Afghanistan.

They were all potential allies of the USSR. Likewise, we placed both saddam and the shah of Iran in power to gaurentee their loyalty to the US, ignoring their oppressive nature.