sergeriver wrote:
If you take some time to read the threads in this section of the forum, you'll notice that there's always a crossfire between the neo-conservative people and the liberal people. And there's never grey issues, all is white and black. I found myself in more than an opportunity calling someone fascist, just because his point of view was different than mine. And almost all in here are doing the same thing. When you don't agree with a neo-con post, you are a terrorist lap dog liberal. When you don't agree with a liberal, you are a fascist or else. This might be different. I think we all should take the things more seriously and stop blaming other people fort thinking in a different way.
That's why I suggest we raise the level here, calling the persons by their nick and not insulting them. I think everyone in this section are grown up people. So, let's behave better and the debate will be better as well.
Just a thought, or like they say in America my two cents.
K now that I've read your whole post, yeah I agree, so quit with the bullshit label neo-con, and I'll quit with the label liberal, unless thats how you identify, soo unless you know someones stance, don't fucking call them a neo-con unless you ACTUALLY can identify at least 2 issues they are NEO-CONSERVATIVE on it. Ok so hold on, my main problem with this, is people just are TOO QUICK To just throw out neo-con because its quick and easy on the tongue, and they almost always INCORRECTLY use it in just over generalizing a conservative as greedy, small gov't, gun rights crazy, anti-abortion freak, when thats not even what the fuck that term means. See my problem is that you guys have changed the god damned meaning of the word and now it means something that it originally was NOT, in the 60's, 70's, and most especially the 80's.
Ahhh here we go.
Shortcomings and criticism of the term "Neoconservative"
Some of those identified as neoconservatives refuse to embrace the term. Critics argue that it lacks coherent definition, that it is coherent only in a Cold War context, or is used as a pejorative by anti-Semites. See e.g. Barry Rubin, director of the Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Institute, Interdisciplinary Center of Herzliya, in a letter from Washington for Sunday, April 6, 2003:
First, "neo-conservative" is a codeword for Jewish. As antisemites did with big business moguls in the nineteenth century and Communist leaders in the twentieth, the trick here is to take all those involved in some aspect of public life and single out those who are Jewish. The implication made is that this is a Jewish-led movement conducted not in the interests of all the, in this case, American people, but to the benefit of Jews, and in this case Israel.
The fact that the use of the term "neoconservative" has rapidly risen since the 2003 Iraq War is cited by conservatives as proof that the term is largely irrelevant in the long term. David Horowitz, a purported leading neo-con thinker, offered this critique in a recent interview with an Italian newspaper:
Neo-conservatism is a term almost exclusively used by the enemies of America's liberation of Iraq. There is no "neo-conservative" movement in the United States. When there was one, it was made up of former Democrats who embraced the welfare state but supported Ronald Reagan's Cold War policies against the Soviet bloc. Today neo-conservatism identifies those who believe in an aggressive policy against radical Islam and the global terrorists.
Similarly, many other supposed neoconservatives believe that the term has been adopted by the political left to stereotype supporters of U.S. foreign policy under the George W. Bush administration. Others have similarly likened descriptions of neoconservatism to a conspiracy theory and attribute the term to anti-Semitism. Paul Wolfowitz has denounced the term as meaningless label, saying:
[If] you read the Middle Eastern press, it seems to be a euphemism for some kind of nefarious Zionist conspiracy. But I think that, in my view it's very important to approach [foreign policy] not from a doctrinal point of view. I think almost every case I know is different. Indonesia is different from the Philippines. Iraq is different from Indonesia. I think there are certain principles that I believe are American principles – both realism and idealism. I guess I'd like to call myself a democratic realist. I don't know if that makes me a neo-conservative or not.
Jonah Goldberg and others have rejected the label as trite and over-used, arguing "There's nothing 'neo' about me: I was never anything other than conservative." Other critics have similarly argued the term has been rendered meaningless through excessive and inconsistent use. For example, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld are often identified as leading "neocons" despite the fact that both men have ostensibly been life-long conservative Republicans (though Cheney has been vocally supportive of the ideas of Irving Kristol). Such critics thus largely reject the claim that there is a neoconservative movement separate from traditional American conservatism.
Other traditional conservatives are likewise skeptical of the contemporary usage term, and may dislike being associated with the stereotypes, or even the supposed agendas of the "neocons." Conservative columnist David Harsanyi wrote, "These days, it seems that even temperate support for military action against dictators and terrorists qualifies you a neocon."
During the 1970s, for example in a book on the movement by Peter Steinfels, the use of the term neoconservative was never identified with the writings of Leo Strauss. The near synonymity, in some quarters, of neoconservatism and Straussianism is a much more recent phenomenon, which suggests that perhaps two quite distinct movements have become merged into one, either in fact or in the eyes of certain beholders.
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Pejorative use
The term is frequently used pejoratively, both by self-described paleoconservatives, who oppose neoconservatism from the right, and by Democratic politicians opposing neoconservatives from the left. Recently, Democratic politicians and television personalities, notably ex-Carter speechwriter and Hardball host Chris Matthews, have used the term to criticize the Republican policies and leaders of the current Bush administration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservative Yes its wiki, stfu, it makes my point for me.
Last edited by AlbertWesker[RE] (2006-10-19 00:23:19)
