BF2S Forums Local costs of Iraq war - Find out what your state gave up

Why worry about the money spend on iraq?

You are going to war in iran don't know it yet but it's coming and it's gonna cost a lot more money then 300bilion.

Is it for freedom? Freedom of who? The islamic people you bomb? From who? The taliban(al qaida) members you gave money and weapons?

Do you guys know what is even more sad than loosing a bunch of bilion dollares? Well loosing thousands of human lifes and for what?

I know what some americans that aprove this say... they are islamic extremists! We got to kill them all...

So when all is over and a lot of ppl is dead this americans will be saying "Freedom at last the man woman and children of islam are dead".

My friends your day of reckoning will come when another that thinks like you will brought death to your home.

You can change your country, americans can change their leaders, but you perfer the road of death, revenge agaist everyone guilty or inocent but when your turn comes remenber that what you give is what you get.

I really hope i am wrong as all you american "patriots(...)" will say i really hope so cause i don't wanna see a lot of people dying but the war machine is already working, may god have mercy on our souls.

jonsimon wrote:

Twist wrote:

Where do I write that it's the AMERICANS freedom that's at stake ? Or do you SERIOUSLY believe that the rest of the word has no claim to life liberty and the persuit of happiness ?

Yes, we have freed so many iraqis from the oppressive shackles of earthly living. Perhaps in death they will finally appreciate our empathy with their plight.

Genius

+1

Twist wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Twist wrote:

Do you REALLY think that's to high a price to pay for freedom ?

I read your post as far as the sentence above and promptly stopped. War in Iraq is ensuring that Americans have 'freedom'? OMGROFLMAO. There is one born every day.

Funny thing was I was just reading your post about "intelligent dabating"... Where do I write that it's the AMERICANS freedom that's at stake ? Or do you SERIOUSLY believe that the rest of the word has no claim to life liberty and the persuit of happiness ?

yes, the IS one born everyday.. and if You cannot regocnize the plight of other people, then YOU'RE that one.

I assumed because you are American that you must somehow imagine that the Iraq war is helping you to remain free, when it is pretty obvious that it has nothing to do with US freedom. I mean you can't seriously believe the Iraq war was an altruistic endeavour. My apologies. I do recognise that people elsewhere should enjoy liberty and freedom but they must earn it - it can't be handed to them. I'm sure a growing number of Iraqis would prefer the tyrannical regime of Saddam now to the unimaginable chaos they have to suffer today as a result of being 'liberated', from a simple quality of life, ability to the go to the shops, etc. point of view. LOL. We in the west need to butt out of developing nations affairs, other than to supply them with financial aid. Democracy cannot be applied to a nation or region, especially at gunpoint - countries evolve into democracy at their own pace.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-30 01:37:50)

Horseman 77 wrote:

Ps. Jets F16s were over head in NYC 20 mins after the attack

Blame it on chain of command issues, confusion over training ops, disregarded warnings, proximity of F15/F16s or simple bad luck but it happened on Bush's watch.  Yet you blame Clinton constantly.  If it had happened during Clinton's time, would you blame it on Bush Senior?  I very much doubt it.  And TBH I couldn't care less.

Mr.Pieeater wrote:

Hey, dude.  Guess what?  If you don't like the government "wasting" your money, then why don't you leave the United States and move to Iraq or someplace.  I hear Saddam did an excellent job of governing that country...  Thats what I don't understand about you people.  You complain about the war that is protecting our country from attack and rids us of future threats.  And you complain about wasted tax dollars on war, well if you don't like it then GET THE HELL OUT!  Love it or leave it baby!

No I dont think one would give up or leave everytime something one disagreed with happened. That would make one an imbecile. Thats like you running away from home when your mom wont let you play bf2, its just not gonna happen. See, you have to bitch about your probelms on internet forums hoping that maybe, just maybe, someone from the administration will see your post and change their views, possibly conforming them to yours. That my friend is how nerds make the world a better place.

CameronPoe wrote:

Twist wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I read your post as far as the sentence above and promptly stopped. War in Iraq is ensuring that Americans have 'freedom'? OMGROFLMAO. There is one born every day.

Funny thing was I was just reading your post about "intelligent dabating"... Where do I write that it's the AMERICANS freedom that's at stake ? Or do you SERIOUSLY believe that the rest of the word has no claim to life liberty and the persuit of happiness ?

yes, the IS one born everyday.. and if You cannot regocnize the plight of other people, then YOU'RE that one.

I assumed because you are American that you must somehow imagine that the Iraq war is helping you to remain free, when it is pretty obvious that it has nothing to do with US freedom. I mean you can't seriously believe the Iraq war was an altruistic endeavour. My apologies. I do recognise that people elsewhere should enjoy liberty and freedom but they must earn it - it can't be handed to them. I'm sure a growing number of Iraqis would prefer the tyrannical regime of Saddam now to the unimaginable chaos they have to suffer today as a result of being 'liberated', from a simple quality of life, ability to the go to the shops, etc. point of view. LOL. We in the west need to butt out of developing nations affairs, other than to supply them with financial aid. Democracy cannot be applied to a nation or region, especially at gunpoint - countries evolve into democracy at their own pace.

Lol... You couldn't be more wrong.. I'm in fact NOT american. However, I appreciate the american effort (as I posted earlier), because noone else seems to be willing to stand up to the shitheads in the world. Reagan took no shit from the soviets, and now there are half a billion people who are free from torture and oppression. Look at korea, afghanistan, south africa, egypt, many countries in south america.... All have had dictators shot or forcibly removed. And IMO they're all the better for it... I've visited quite a few of these countries, and while the old people there sometimes miss the stability of the past (shit, i know it's no fun not to have food on the table every day), none of them want the uncertainty of life to return.
Believe it or not, but most people prefer a "bad" life to no life at all.

You say that countries evolve into democracy on their own. That may be true, but when was Iraq ever a country ? If you look as its history, it is a "collection" of states (13 I believe) who were all violently conquered through a period of time... Saddam wanted Kuwait to be the next one, and I serisouly doubt he gave up on that idea just because the US told him to.
So in point of fact I challenge you to find just three examples of ANY country that has thrown away the shackles of oppression by itself. In fact, I think you will be hard pressed to find one. According to historians, NO country has ever done so without external support/force (yes this includes america, or have you forgotten how the french and other non-english loving europeans helped you/them ?).

I agree that the war was not fought over altruistic goals, but that doesn't mean that the byproduct of it... The freedom of the Iraqi people isn't a good thing. You are quite right that financial aid does precious little for developing nations. Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day, TEACH a man how to fish, and he will eat the rest of his life. I belive that. I SUPPORT that, and you are right about it. However, the war in Iraq wasn't started over a matter of financial aid. It was started because Saddam would not live up to his end of the bargain after the first war. He would NOT comply with the UN resolutions, he would NOT comply with the weapons inspectors, and he would NOT respect the nofly zones, and most importantly, he would NOT stop killing his own people.
Now assume that he HAD WMD, assume that he IS insane, assume that he HAS the largest army in the middle east, and assume that he couldn't care less about the opinions of the world, additionally assume that he gives exactly a rats ass about human life, and further assume that had had a grudge to settle over the first war against iraq.... Wouldn't YOU think that he was going to be a problem ?
Whatever the facts are, there was no reason to assume otherwise, and based solely on the information that was getting out of Iraq, I agree with the goverments that the reason for going to war was there. And the goal of getting rid of Saddam was achieved. Yes, there's a cost to pay NOW, but IMO it will be worth it in the end.

As for the assanine comment some other bloke made about people dying BECAUSE of the american occupation, I can only say: Try to follow the news. There's a nice court case going on right now, in the Hague, about how Saddam gassed, tortured and shot MILLIONS of HIS OWN people (not to mention how many Iranians he killed, but that's besides the point). I'm sure THEY appeciated being tortured, gassed and worse on a daily basis. There may be some people who oppose the change of regime. Who ever said this war would be over in 2 weeks ?
Change takes time, sometimes a LONG time. But as long as the average citizen gets to live a safer and more productive life, and is free from unjust persecution (read the human rights.. I'm quite aware that the US has refused to sign the geneva convention and follow the accords set forth regarding human rights, but they still expect the rest of the world to follow them), then isn't that a goal in itself ?
Yes I'm quite aware that the US's motives for entering the war wasn't entirely for the benefit of the Iraqi people. But the government KNEW going in that it was for the long haul. They KNEW it would take many YEARS to ensure the change of regimes, but when a country decides to take it upon themselves to help others in this maner, I'm not going to question their ulterior motives, as long as a common goal of bettering the lives of other people is achieved. I'm damned PROUD that my country is helping the US with ground troops and logistics support. I feel bad for the people in the middle east, that we (the west) had to take military action to enforce a change of regimes, but in the end, I believe that it was ultimately required of us, because noone in the middle east had the power to overthrow Saddam.
And when it comes right down to it... How many civilians have died in Iraq in the last 3 years (violent deaths from acts of terrorism or the likes) ? 80.000 ? 100.000 ? 200.000 ? Shit, Saddam could kill that many before BREAKFAST when he was on a roll. So why would ANYONE in their right minds even CONSIDER that the Iraqies are not better off now ?
Sure yeah, the Sunni and Shiites have exchanged places, so that the 10% aren't ruling the 90% anymore.... I guess the 10% are pissed about that. But when was "I win because I have the biggest gun" ever considered democratic ? I think the last time was before the abolishment of the slavery around the time of the american civil war. Slavery being something that was ALSO opposed by the majority of the world, Just like Saddams rule was opposed by the rest of the world (look at the UN resolutions, even the FRENCH agreed that Saddam was out on a limb). Now ask the average BLACK american.. Do you THINK he would rather have slavery never abolished ? I REALLY doubt that. So in 20 or 50 years, go ask the average Iraqi if he'd rather have Saddam never overthrown.

Bertster7 wrote:

The Cold War was about containing a genuine threat. Iraq posed no threat to anyone, except the people who lived there. There was a problem, but it was self contained. Now the situation is even worse - especially for the US and UK, since the nation is bound to fall into fundamental Islamic rule, like Iran, leading to much more terrorism (which was not a problem there initially).

Freedom does not come into the Iraq situation, unless it is the freedom of the Iraqi people you are speaking of.

How do you KNOW Iraq posed no threat to anyone excpt itself ? It was only a couple of years before Saddam Invaded Kuwait. Saddam had long range missles, he HAD WMDs, he had USED them, and he had NO PROOF of getting rid of them. In point of fact, he refused to cooperate with the UN weapons inspectors, and he continually claimed to have the weapons on public TV.... He was insane, had the largest army in the middle east, he had no respect for human life and he had a grudge to settle over the first war in Iraq.... Now tell me again how he was a threat to noone.....

All I got to say is, war is hell, Freedom isnt free, and...I dunno, we will cry over the money already spent later.  Get over it.

well as for the korean war, the US didnt start it, the NK started invading the south, the US was stationed there since after the fall of japan, korea was split w/ russia (north) and US (south) kinda like germany.

Because of the Iraq war, people have more freedom then ever. If a lot hated the US, then why did some civilian iraqis help US troops during the war?

Horseman 77 wrote:

pointyhead wrote:

Horseman 77 wrote:

Try more coffee kid.

Why don't you try more uh..... intelligence?  Nah, can't do that with Horseman!  Sorry for asking.

BTW, should I call you sir?  Exactly how old are you, if you don't mind me asking?

Nothing to add, no opinions, steeped in the belief he has nothing new to ever learn, secure in his world that anyone who disagrees with him is wrong and anyone who agrees with him is right. emboldened by the anonymous cloak the Internet provides, What brought him running .. the word kid?

Damn Horseman, you couldn't have written a more accurate autobiography.

d3v1ldr1v3r13 wrote:

All I got to say is, war is hell, Freedom isnt free, and...I dunno, we will cry over the money already spent later.  Get over it.

War in Iraq is securing 'freedom' how exactly? LOL.

Kmarion wrote:

There is no price for freedom. I only hope it can someday be achieved.

this sums it up perfectly. If we were to ignore the problem like previous administrations, the costs would only swell for when the issue HAS to be faced. What issue, you may ask.... the issue of states that, while at the time may not be a direct threat to the US or western civilization, in the future pose a serious threat. Also, dont forget the countless number of people killed, imprisoned, and tortured by hussein. Then you may say: what about all of the people dying in iraq right now? I say, a tiny fraction of those are killed by american troops, the rest is sectarian violence, which, would erupt into a full-scale civil war if we left. And the civil war would have happened eventually anyway, after hussein died or if he was overthrown.... and if that had happened, there wouldnt have been 140,000 of our guys there to stop it from being as messy as it could be.