BF2S Forums Okay, let's go at it like this:

Get the fuck out of the middle east because we have no business or right to be there whatsoever and leave state terrorists Israel to their own devices. Why anyone in the west should support them is beyond me. After that, if the middle east is still hostile, then we can start thinking about getting tough on them (like we haven't anally shafted them repeatedly already).

Hmmm. I wanted to read that whole thing but fragmented sentences and incoherent ramblings procluded it.

I want to get most of your post straight:

1. You're saying that we aren't sure that Muslim extremists brought down the World Trade Center?

2. You're saying that the structures collapsed because of something other than being rammed by jumbojets full of fuel, and the subsequent melting of the infrastructure that most assume occured?

Okay, aside from that, I didn't ask for your "fuck America" rambling, I didn't ask for your idea about the bias of the West, or the lies spread by the American media, I simply asked "what would YOU do to fix this?" If you want to rant and rave and name-call, that's all well and good but I'm asking what Muslims OR Muslim-sympathizers would ask US, the West, the Christian/Jew/Agnostic/Atheist coalition, America, whomever, to do that would end all this.

If we got every single white person out of the Middle East would that do it? Would you be okay with us sending all the Arabs back in exchange? Is it okay for Arabs to protest against the United States, IN the United States, but not okay for any Americans to be in Saudi Arabia? I'm just trying to see what the score is.

Will this do it: Remove all Americans from the Middle East, move Israel to Greenland, let Muslims change domestic policy in France and Spain (as they are trying to do), pay 100 dollars a barrel for oil, and cease writing, drawing, or talking about Islam in any way shape or form.

Would that do it or would they still want to come to AMERICA and wear their burkas on their driver's license pictures and stop us from celebrating Christmas and take over here as well?

Just wondering. Where will they be satisfied and stop killing people? You tell me.

I had an idea but it got shot down. My idea was for Israel to pull out of everything and then when a Katousha came across the border, respond by killing 1,000 times as many people. Of course I was told that was unfair. Unfair. Man that makes me chuckle.

I'm going to remember that the next time someone breaks into my house and punches me in the nose I need to just punch him back. Hitting him with a bat or putting a bullet in him isn't in line with the Doctrine of Comparable Retaliation.

I'll tell you a quick story: I was on a road in Dallas, Texas. Middle lane of a three lane road. Guy whips out from the right, and damned near kills me. I was in the middle lane. He couldn't wait, or pull into the far right lane, he had to take half my lane too. So I honked at him.

Then he shotme the bird. Then I shot it back. Then I was at the red light and he was jawing. I started laughing. I was in a Jeep with no top mind you. So, this guy gets out of his car with an aluminum baseball bat. He starts screaming "you think it's funny? How funny is this asshole" and starts towards me with the bat.

I calmly reach under my seat and pull out my licensed 9mm Mackarov and point it at him, and say "how funny is this?"

He turned around, got in his car, and drove right through the red light.

That was the end of that story.

Had I gotten out of the car with a bat, I'd have been in a bloody bat fight.

Reciprocal Retaliation is a crock of shit. Swing a bat at me and you're done.

So that's my answer. Pull all the hell the way out of all of it, buy our oil from Venezuala, pay 10 dollars a gallon for gas, ride bicycles, and tell those people to shove it.

If they still want to fuck with us, grease every last one of them.

You have a better idea that doesn't involve waiting til we get hit and hitting back in a similar fashion?

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

We should bake them a delectable cake.

A cake with special "green" butter!

I won't argue that our government was incompetent. It was. We could have deported half those guys on Visa violations alone. Of course, when we do that sort of thing everyone laments the poor hard-working Arab who just wants to live here and work here, and all of a sudden we're the evil Americans again.

If we sent EVERY SINGLE person in this country who didn't have a valid Visa back to his home country, we'd eliminate a SHITLOAD of potential problems. Of course, nobody would allow us to do that. So, you can blame the U.S. for incompetency only if you acknowledge that the bleeding-hearts create that incompetency.

Spumantiii wrote:

Let's talk about white people now?  More horrific bs has come from white people than has from any muslim nation.  Let's look at history, shall we?   Only as soon as it BECAME A PRIORITY FOR THE US TO MANIPULATE has the 'problem' become more intense.   I'll tell you who the problem is.  White people and their greedy sticky trigger fingers.

Spumantiii wrote:

Dersmikner wrote:

Muslims and Muslim-sympathizers (those who think the U.S. and the Jews are out of line),

Give us your solution to OUR problem at hand. Tell us what you would do to stop terrorism. Tell us what we should do the next time a plane flies into a building. Tell us what we should do about the schools that train Muslim children to to straps bombs to their 14 year old abdomens and walk into grocery stores.

So we don't have to declare war on all of Islam, tell us what will fix things.

Give it to us one step at a time and THEN, tell us what we should do if we do all that, and we keep getting attacked by suicide bombers, terrorists, et al.

first off you don't inspire rational debate by calling people muslims because they don't support Israel. 

the next time a plane hits a building, try :
COMPLETING the investigation
allowing information to the public
BEING CORRECT ABOUT WHO WAS ON BOARD THE PLANES
LOOKING AT THE OTHER TIMES THAT HAS HAPPENED
USING LOGIC

how can a bomber hit the empire state building and cause only minor damage, when a 'fire' can bring down one of the most technically sound buildings of outr time?  Here's how:  BS
fires have only ever brought down a skyscraper once:  wtc.   That's the only time a fire has ever brought down a skyscraper.  If that's true.

you call it OUR problem but is it?  You don't even know whether it WAS muslims or not who hit the wtc.  Someone said it was al - q then some tape confirmed that.   This was never OUR problem until certain governments liked to push their pesky fucking agencies on other countries.   
In the quest for economic domination the west IS the enemy, having fuelled this bs ever since day 1.  We should be pissed with ourselves for
a ) not noticing how blindsidingly acceptible this kind of interference has become
b ) not noticing that in some places our rules and values mean squat to the people living there
c ) not noticing that we BREAK our OWN rules and values AS WE SEE FIT.
d ) not noticing that a few bucks in the bank now leads to war later
e ) actively encouraging stupid behaviour ie saying shit that you criticize other races for saying.
Here is the west, all high and mighty and right and just, supposed to be an example, and we say shit like 'turn it into a glass parking lot'  for no reason other than the next guy already said it, or it might beat your regular evening tv programming to watch it.  Pick up some fat on the way home for the tv oogling while you're at it. 
OUR problem is information.  Not terrorism, not muslims.  You get the wrong info and you're already wrong.  And since the US media is soooo good at telling you what's right, here it is.   Half of the shit that gets claimed (who did what and when)  is major heresay and can't be trusted anyway.  Israel are prolific liars when it comes to battle intel.

YET after all this we have the nerve to accuse others of being liars, actors, and puppet masters, saying they aren't allowed to do it ( the muslims responding )  The truth is most if not all of them protest in a LEGAL and peaceful manner, and in the case of Palestine, they damn well deserve that right.  The one in 100000 nut who decides to sign their life away by blowing themselves up

DOES NOT
DOES NOT DOES NOT DOES NOT    REPRESENT THOSE PEOPLE.

Let's talk about white people now?  More horrific bs has come from white people than has from any muslim nation.  Let's look at history, shall we?   Only as soon as it BECAME A PRIORITY FOR THE US TO MANIPULATE has the 'problem' become more intense.   I'll tell you who the problem is.  White people and their greedy sticky trigger fingers.

Enjoy your fucking cake.

Decaf ??? And less hallucinogens...FTW

Spumantiii wrote:

how can a bomber hit the empire state building and cause only minor damage, when a 'fire' can bring down one of the most technically sound buildings of outr time?  Here's how:  BS
fires have only ever brought down a skyscraper once:  wtc.   That's the only time a fire has ever brought down a skyscraper.  If that's true.

Have you ever considered that the B-25 was minuscule next to a 747?  The B-25 that hit the Empire state building weighed in at about 12.5 tons and traveled at a top speed of 275 mph.  On the other hand a 747 weighs in at more than 430 tons with a top speed of 567 mph.  In terms of energy released into a building on impact and the resulting damage there is no comparison between the two.  Oh, it's true that a skyscraper has never been destroyed by a fire by itself, but on the same note no skyscraper has ever been hit by anything comparable to a 747.

Aircraft statistics
747: http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/b747.pl
B-25: http://www.globalaircraft.org/planes/b-25_mitchell.pl

Last edited by mcgid1 (2006-08-15 14:09:58)

How about this.................


We get out the middle east and let Israel deal with the consequences of their OWN actions.  And don't try imply that I'm saying all westerners should leave the middle east.  What I mean is stop suppling Israel with arms, stop our crusade to promote democracy in foreign lands,  and stop blocking resolutions in the U.N. because of the U.S./Israeli relationship.

If we mind our own business and stay out of their affairs then maybe WE wont be a target and the middle east will evolve into whatever that region will become.  As I've stated before, lead by example.  Help those around the world who need help and leave the rest alone.  We should work thru the U.N.  The reason the U.N. is weak now is because the worlds superpower makes it that way.  If we truly believe in democracy so much then why not act that way towards the rest of the world.  Are we really promoting democracy?  I'd beg to differ.

If we are attacked again then you go after the group that attacked us (the world would be behind us on this as they were before) and after it is over, get the hell out.  Similar to Afghanistan except we didn't finish the job properly because we decided to put ourselves on a second front that should have never been opened.

Instead, you (Dersmikner) have this attitude that your going to fight terrorism by promoting terrorism........what a concept


Jusster

Jusster, so you think we should leave Israel and if they get greased, that's life?

What happens then when the LARGE Muslim population in Spain gets out of control and bombs shit like they did on 7/7? Do we let Spain get leveled too?

What happens in Chechniya when they start killing school children again? Do we let the Muslim extremists turn EVERYTHING into Muslim-ville even if we're asked to help (whcih the Jews clearly have)?

How about in Indonesia?

Do we just wait until the world is Mexico, Canada, The United States of America, and Muslim-ville? And then what do we do when the protests in Dearborn Michigan get even more out of control? Let them have Sharia law in Michigan?

Pretty soon it's going to be down to just Texas and Muslim-ville.

I'm half-serious. Look at the way they're trying to take over in the Spain, France, Detroit and Indonesia. That's BAD business. I'm all for letting them run the Persian Gulf however the hell they want, but this metastasizing shit needs to stop.

Ikarti wrote:

Spumantiii wrote:

how can a bomber hit the empire state building and cause only minor damage, when a 'fire' can bring down one of the most technically sound buildings of outr time?  Here's how:  BS
fires have only ever brought down a skyscraper once:  wtc.   That's the only time a fire has ever brought down a skyscraper.  If that's true.

I had a conversation with my father about this last night while I was over at his place. He's a structural engineer and has worked in the field for 40 years. Said the reason the towers fell was because they were cheap building to begin with. A lot of corners were cut on the construction. Jet fuel melted the steel and when one floor gave the building came down and compressed the other floors, making it look somewhat like a controlled demolition. As for 7 WTC (which he was in charge of the steel erection on the rebuilt one), he said that in the basement of the building it was set up to be the headquarters of the city government should a major disaster, along the lines of nuclear or chemical, occur. They had generators and 70,000 or so gallons of diesel down there.

Found an exact list of everything in there:
The government agencies housed at 7 World Trade Center were the United States Secret Service, the Department of Defense, the Immigration and Naturalization Service, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), the Mayor's Office of Emergency Management, the Internal Revenue Service Regional Council (IRS), and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)

So, with fireproofing designed to last for about 2 hours, 70,000 gallons of diesel burned for an entire day. What do you think that results in? Now that's the explanation he gave on it, and I'm inclined to believe him. I can ask the guy who did the Petronas towers what his opinion on it is too, if you'd like.

However, I completely agree that a lot was not right and there's a lot of information that we don't about and how much the government is really responsible for. For all we've got, we could have prevented that from happening.

As for the B-24 into the Empire State Building. Smaller plane, slower speed, no jet fuel.

Don't forget that they were built of trusses. They are HORRIBLE in fire. I could make a steel truss (a small one) fail with a few small weights and a bunsen burner. A single centimetre of unproofed truss is enough to make the whole truss fail.

Dersmikner wrote:

Muslims and Muslim-sympathizers (those who think the U.S. and the Jews are out of line),

Give us your solution to OUR problem at hand. Tell us what you would do to stop terrorism. Tell us what we should do the next time a plane flies into a building. Tell us what we should do about the schools that train Muslim children to to straps bombs to their 14 year old abdomens and walk into grocery stores.

So we don't have to declare war on all of Islam, tell us what will fix things.

Give it to us one step at a time and THEN, tell us what we should do if we do all that, and we keep getting attacked by suicide bombers, terrorists, et al.

Abide by resolution 242 for starters, a resolution that Israel has ignored for 40 years.

Abide by the 4th Geneva Conventions.

Stop the ILLEGAL occupation of Palestine.

Get out of Gaza and the West Bank completely.

Try, in International Court, Ariel Sharon and the rest of the Israeli military for daily war crimes.

How's that for a start?

trusses:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_trusses.html
"The Windsor Building in Madrid was of similar design to the twin towers, and the video on the right showing the 2005 fire in the building shows large pieces of structure falling off because trusses were failing in the 800ºC fires on the upper floors of the building.

If the "truss theory" were factual then the Windsor Building fire demonstrates that debris would have rained down from the twin towers as trusses failed, especially toward the time of the collapses, and there should have been gaping holes in the buildings' perimeter walls when the buildings came down.

This wasn't the case."
more importantly, the failing of the upper trusses DID NOT result in a cascading faliure the likes of which which brought down the wtc twins.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE … fire.1.wmv


fire engulfed the Windsor for 10 full hours.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/spain_fire_9-11.html
http://www.concretecentre.com/main.asp?page=1205
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysi … ndsor.html
other fires in similar buildings:
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysi … fires.html
"Caracas Tower Fire-
The tallest skyscraper in Caracas, Venezuela experienced a severe fire on October 17, 2004. The blaze began before midnight on the 34th floor, spread to more than 26 floors, and burned for more than 17 hours. Heat from the fires prevented firefighters from reaching the upper floors, and smoke injured 40 firefighters.

Lax enforcement of fire codes in Venezuela was blamed for the malfunctioning of water pumps and a lack of fire extinguishers inside of the building. Because the building was empty when the fire broke out, no civilians were killed or injured. 8   "

sorry to side track, this topic is of interest to me.

Last edited by Spumantiii (2006-08-15 19:09:27)