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2006-08-15 15:06:39
Vindicarre
Member
+0|6727
Bertster7:

While you make a much more coherent argument than others, I have a few questions.

When you speak of deficit, I'll assume you mean trade deficit (owing to the last line of your post), the US had a trade deficit on goods and services of $64.8 billion (2005) while the UK has a trade deficit on G&S of  $90.1 billion (BBC). What point are you making about the US economy, when that deficit on a percentage basis can't look pleasant for the UK?

The US national debt is about $8.5 trillion. The UK's is about $995.8 billion.The US GDP is $12.36 trillion while the UK's is $1.83 trillion.  When one takes a look at the percentages based on GDP ratio (as would be prudent) shouldn't people be screaming about the UK's impending problems as well?
2006-08-15 15:10:59
Vindicarre
Member
+0|6727

Bertster7 wrote:

Vindicarre wrote:

Vilham:

I am more than adequately informed on the dynamics of economies to refute the insubstantial claims that have been posted here. Perhaps if you posted something to substantiate your claims, besides your opinions, then your posts would hold water; a link to Wiki doesn't accomplish that goal.

Well, seeing as you posted that link, which cycle are you referring to?
The Kitchin inventory? Or one based on Juglar? Perhaps the asset allocation cycle as proposed by Bronson? Are you using Solow as a reference point? Maybe Keynesian theory is more your preference? I assume you are not referencing the Kondratiev wave, as that would be not pertinent to this discussion being a supercycle and all... Please do let us know where your basis in saying that the US economy is declining and heading for collapse.
You would do better to use Okun's Law as an example, sadly that would not accomplish what you wish either, because the US unemployment rate is usually about half that of Europe.

To state that "all economies grow" is disingenuous. At what rate does the US economy need to grow for you to think it is not headed for recession? At what point will inflation cause that analysis to be false?

Perhaps the next time you attempt to use "go back to school" in your posts you should understand what you are referencing. The accepted term is "sine wave". As you are apparently enamored with Wiki:[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sine_wave[/url]
No one has made any claims about the growth of the US economy. You have stated the fact that it has grown at an impressive rate. However, the growth of the economy has not improved the governments fiscal position - which has got steadily worse and worse each year Bush has been in power.
The low taxation in part explains the economic growth the US has been experiencing lately, but the government have not been making sufficient tax revenue, even with this economic growth, to cover their costs.

The fact is that the US government has had a deficit every year since Bush came to power. Each year the deficit is larger and larger (it has in fact, reached record levels). Under Clinton the US government had a surplus. Those are the facts. If the US government continues to lose money at the same rate, the US economy is headed for disaster.

Have a look at this article from the economics section of the Times.
[url]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-2086133,00.html[/url]

Or this article from Macleans.
[url]http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/world/article.jsp?content=20050307_101541_101541[/url]

I am not trying to make claims about your understanding of economics, but simply stating the facts. The facts are that under Bush the US government has been spending more money than it can afford to. This will have reprecussions.
I understand you aren't making claims about my understanding of economics, that post was directed at Vilham.

Once again, I'll direct you to the UK's fiscal health as a comparison, and perhaps we can discuss this from a perspective that allows comparison of the two economies.

Last edited by Vindicarre (2006-08-15 15:11:47)

2006-08-15 15:20:27
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6818

smtt686 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

captain_itchy_pants wrote:

I am an Irishman living in the States and I love it here. I have been back several time to the awl sod but each time it gets harder to go back. Dublin (my home town) has turned into a shit hole (not that it wasnt when I left 14 years ago). My wife and children are American and my family and their friends love them and never a bad word or a negative action is put towards them (they know I will rip them limb from limb if they ever thought so)

Poe, I wonder why there is always a negativity towards the US in most of your posts? You live on the west coast....galway? Sligo? I know a lot of American companies on that side of the Isle. America has been the leading financeer in a lot of businesses in Ireland and has made it one of the fastest and porfitable countries in europe or the world for that matter. I just wanna know why the hate, dislike, general displeasure with the good ol' US of A?
Dude - you obviously haven't read many of my posts and for some reason you think I hate USA just like certain others on this forum. I have been to USA many times, spent a three month spell there even - I know what it's like. Nice for a holiday but not my cup of tea in terms of living somewhere. It has good and bad just like any country. I personally love Dublin City, where I have lived now for 10 years and I also love Ireland. It is a very different place from the one you left. Coming back for a fortnight's holidays will not exactly show you the differences. In fact, there are parts of ye olde Ireland that I do miss a lot, but you have to take the rough with the smooth.
The fact of the matter is that my beef is not with "America" or "USA" - it's with US foreign policy. Investment in Ireland from US companies does not give the US government a moral exemption from their recent acts on the international stage. I am a critic of US foreign policy, I couldn't care less about their domestic policy. When the sole superpower is making the world a more dangerous place to be, bankrolling terrorist states, subverting democracy in latin america and supporting puppet regimes in the middle east it makes me angry.
evidently CameronPoe, i am not the only one who reads your posts and interpret them as anti and possibly bordering on hate towards the United States.  I would love to hear you defend this one!  And yes i HAVE read your posts and yes i really believe you really dont like the United States!
I can't do anything about your misinterpretations of any posts of mines other than to tell you to take some advanced english classes. I don't think I've ever said 'I hate America'. Not once. Some people have difficulty in separating general terms like 'America' or 'American People' from highly specific things like 'US governmental support for Israel' and 'US foreign policy in Iraq'. I can't help you if you can't differentiate between things like that.

Evidently I must really hate America...
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=29391

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-15 15:33:28)

2006-08-15 15:31:00
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6844|SE London

Vindicarre wrote:

Bertster7:

While you make a much more coherent argument than others, I have a few questions.

When you speak of deficit, I'll assume you mean trade deficit (owing to the last line of your post), the US had a trade deficit on goods and services of $64.8 billion (2005) while the UK has a trade deficit on G&S of  $90.1 billion (BBC). What point are you making about the US economy, when that deficit on a percentage basis can't look pleasant for the UK?

The US national debt is about $8.5 trillion. The UK's is about $995.8 billion.The US GDP is $12.36 trillion while the UK's is $1.83 trillion.  When one takes a look at the percentages based on GDP ratio (as would be prudent) shouldn't people be screaming about the UK's impending problems as well?
I am not talking of trade deficit. I am talking about the US governments overall budget deficit. There is a big difference between the two. The UK do not have a budget shortfall (*edit* not this year anyway, 2004 was £37billion - to the USs $668.1 billion), all the UKs trade deficits are made up by taxation. That is the difference.

The US government is losing money - which with it's strong economy it should not be. Massive government spending and tax cuts have led to the government not covering its own costs which result in a budget deficit. This has been going on for ALL of Bush's presidency. Taxation in the US must rise and government spending must be reduced, otherwise bad things will happen. Every year Bush has been in office the US government has lost hundreds of billions of dollars. The government make up the shortfall by borrowing money, this has been going on since 2001, the situation IS becoming critical.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-08-15 15:42:45)

2006-08-15 15:34:23
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6844|SE London

CameronPoe wrote:

smtt686 wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:


Dude - you obviously haven't read many of my posts and for some reason you think I hate USA just like certain others on this forum. I have been to USA many times, spent a three month spell there even - I know what it's like. Nice for a holiday but not my cup of tea in terms of living somewhere. It has good and bad just like any country. I personally love Dublin City, where I have lived now for 10 years and I also love Ireland. It is a very different place from the one you left. Coming back for a fortnight's holidays will not exactly show you the differences. In fact, there are parts of ye olde Ireland that I do miss a lot, but you have to take the rough with the smooth.
The fact of the matter is that my beef is not with "America" or "USA" - it's with US foreign policy. Investment in Ireland from US companies does not give the US government a moral exemption from their recent acts on the international stage. I am a critic of US foreign policy, I couldn't care less about their domestic policy. When the sole superpower is making the world a more dangerous place to be, bankrolling terrorist states, subverting democracy in latin america and supporting puppet regimes in the middle east it makes me angry.
evidently CameronPoe, i am not the only one who reads your posts and interpret them as anti and possibly bordering on hate towards the United States.  I would love to hear you defend this one!  And yes i HAVE read your posts and yes i really believe you really dont like the United States!
I can't do anything about your misinterpretations of any posts of mines other than to tell you to take some advanced english classes. I don't think I've ever said 'I hate America'. Not once. Some people have difficulty in separating general terms like 'America' or 'American People' from highly specific things like 'US governmental support for Israel' and 'US foreign policy in Iraq'. I can't help you if you can't differentiate between things like that.
I don't think you're anti-American. Just anti-lots-of-stuff-they-do. Which considering the fiasco that is US foreign and fiscal policy under G.W.B. makes perfect sense to me.
2006-08-15 15:41:25
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6755|Connecticut
It is only normal for any citizen to be proud of their country. America is no different. We are a very young nation, and have suffered through many difficult trials to become what we are. Other countries (not all) dislike us because we are a superpower, some because they have a notion that we are lazy and fat. The truth is, we are just as proud of our country as you are of your respected nation but, because we are a melting pot of nations I think we house more different cultures under one roof than most nations. That can lead to problems and can produce (as I'm sur you've encountered) very extreme people. I can assure  you they do not speak for our nation as a whole. I spent 4 years in the U.S. Marines and traveled the world (infantry). It is a wonderful place but I still love my country the most and I would die for it. I really have no point but I wanted to point out just ignore the idiot Americans we have and we will ignore the the idiot Europeans you have, and all the good people should have a beer (or 8) together.
Malloy must go
2006-08-15 15:44:22
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6844|SE London

deeznutz1245 wrote:

It is only normal for any citizen to be proud of their country. America is no different. We are a very young nation, and have suffered through many difficult trials to become what we are. Other countries (not all) dislike us because we are a superpower, some because they have a notion that we are lazy and fat. The truth is, we are just as proud of our country as you are of your respected nation but, because we are a melting pot of nations I think we house more different cultures under one roof than most nations. That can lead to problems and can produce (as I'm sur you've encountered) very extreme people. I can assure  you they do not speak for our nation as a whole. I spent 4 years in the U.S. Marines and traveled the world (infantry). It is a wonderful place but I still love my country the most and I would die for it. I really have no point but I wanted to point out just ignore the idiot Americans we have and we will ignore the the idiot Europeans you have, and all the good people should have a beer (or 8) together.
A very good opinion and a point well made.

It's just a shame you've got one of the idiot Americans running the country.
2006-08-15 15:48:05
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7028|UK

Vindicarre wrote:

I understand you aren't making claims about my understanding of economics, that post was directed at Vilham.

Once again, I'll direct you to the UK's fiscal health as a comparison, and perhaps we can discuss this from a perspective that allows comparison of the two economies.
as Bertster7 has said repeatedly along with me, the American growth isn't a good thing, if an economy grows too fast it out grows itself and "crashes". Just because you have little knowledge about how an economy works doesnt mean i should have to explain things which are FACT, if ive done economics to a high level and you havent that isnt my fault, i see no reason to spend hours teaching you on the details of it. Instead of posting on this thread or forum go read a book about economics please!

You claim your low taxes are a good thing the simple fact is that if you knew anything about economics you would know that they arent and they are the reason that America is on the verge of a recession.
2006-08-15 15:55:24
Vindicarre
Member
+0|6727

Vilham wrote:

Vindicarre wrote:

I understand you aren't making claims about my understanding of economics, that post was directed at Vilham.

Once again, I'll direct you to the UK's fiscal health as a comparison, and perhaps we can discuss this from a perspective that allows comparison of the two economies.
as Bertster7 has said repeatedly along with me, the American growth isn't a good thing, if an economy grows too fast it out grows itself and "crashes". Just because you have little knowledge about how an economy works doesnt mean i should have to explain things which are FACT, if ive done economics to a high level and you havent that isnt my fault, i see no reason to spend hours teaching you on the details of it. Instead of posting on this thread or forum go read a book about economics please!

You claim your low taxes are a good thing the simple fact is that if you knew anything about economics you would know that they arent and they are the reason that America is on the verge of a recession.
Please don't attempt a condescending tone with me,it isn't an effective method of intelligent debate (and people speak of arrogant Americans).

So "the American growth isn't a good thing"? Got ya. Great expose' there, I don't suppose you have anything of substance to back that up? Do you have any evidence that the American economy is growing "too fast" and "outgrowing itself"? That you claim to have "done economics to a high level" speaks volumes. Come back when you have some evidentiary posts to make.
2006-08-15 16:06:16
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6844|SE London

Vindicarre wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Vindicarre wrote:

I understand you aren't making claims about my understanding of economics, that post was directed at Vilham.

Once again, I'll direct you to the UK's fiscal health as a comparison, and perhaps we can discuss this from a perspective that allows comparison of the two economies.
as Bertster7 has said repeatedly along with me, the American growth isn't a good thing, if an economy grows too fast it out grows itself and "crashes". Just because you have little knowledge about how an economy works doesnt mean i should have to explain things which are FACT, if ive done economics to a high level and you havent that isnt my fault, i see no reason to spend hours teaching you on the details of it. Instead of posting on this thread or forum go read a book about economics please!

You claim your low taxes are a good thing the simple fact is that if you knew anything about economics you would know that they arent and they are the reason that America is on the verge of a recession.
Please don't attempt a condescending tone with me,it isn't an effective method of intelligent debate (and people speak of arrogant Americans).

So "the American growth isn't a good thing"? Got ya. Great expose' there, I don't suppose you have anything of substance to back that up? Do you have any evidence that the American economy is growing "too fast" and "outgrowing itself"? That you claim to have "done economics to a high level" speaks volumes. Come back when you have some evidentiary posts to make.
The growth of the economy is not the issue here. The issues at stake are whether the government has enough money to be able to print money and it be worth something. If the federal reserve bank (now headed by John Snow I believe (I could be wrong there), not Alan Greespan any more - he was great) does not have enough money for the dollar to have value, then you get horrible inflation.

"Earlier this year (2005), Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan warned that unless the huge budget deficit was addressed it could have "severe" consequences." (Source - BBC.co.uk)

Greenspan is no longer Chairman of the Federal Reserve and the 'huge budget deficit' he spoke of has grown larger. The "severe consequences" are looming.
2006-08-15 16:10:02
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6844|SE London

Vilham wrote:

Vindicarre wrote:

I understand you aren't making claims about my understanding of economics, that post was directed at Vilham.

Once again, I'll direct you to the UK's fiscal health as a comparison, and perhaps we can discuss this from a perspective that allows comparison of the two economies.
as Bertster7 has said repeatedly along with me, the American growth isn't a good thing, if an economy grows too fast it out grows itself and "crashes". Just because you have little knowledge about how an economy works doesnt mean i should have to explain things which are FACT, if ive done economics to a high level and you havent that isnt my fault, i see no reason to spend hours teaching you on the details of it. Instead of posting on this thread or forum go read a book about economics please!

You claim your low taxes are a good thing the simple fact is that if you knew anything about economics you would know that they arent and they are the reason that America is on the verge of a recession.
Calm down - Vindicarre seems to be capable of reasonable debate and just because he doesn't share our opinion of US fiscal policy, or see the dangers of huge budget deficits, doesn't mean we need to be mean. It's not like he's a religion nut or French or anything.
2006-08-15 16:17:08
ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ
Banned
+69|6763
im glad we cleared this confusion up

so you hate us and we hate you now lets fight
2006-08-15 16:20:06
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6844|SE London

ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ wrote:

im glad we cleared this confusion up

so you hate us and we hate you now lets fight
Who hates who - that's a very confrontational attitude. I hate Bush - I'd relish the opportunity to fight HIM. There are loads and loads of Americans I have absolutely no problem with.
2006-08-15 16:34:45
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6947|United States of America

Bertster7 wrote:

I'd relish the opportunity to fight HIM.
Are you in his weight/age class? That'd be like fighting a great uncle depending on however old you are at the present time.
2006-08-15 16:44:18
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6844|SE London

I'm 25, 6'1 and probably in better shape than Bush.

It'd be fun.
2006-08-15 16:47:07
ﻍﻏﺱﺖﻇﻸﮚ
Banned
+69|6763
Bush cheats he allways loses his water weight right before the weigh in
https://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4322/bushkerryboxingyc6.jpg
I wouldnt test dubyah if i was you catch him in crawford w/out his blazer and youll find under that sweater vest is a diesel ripped manbeast
2006-08-15 16:53:18
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6844|SE London

I'd take my chances.
2006-08-15 17:04:26
Vindicarre
Member
+0|6727

Bertster7 wrote:

I am not talking of trade deficit.
I'm sorry that I took this line to mean you were referencing the trade deficit:

Bertster7 wrote:

US imports massively outnumber US exports and that is not a good thing.

Bertster7 wrote:

I am talking about the US governments overall budget deficit. There is a big difference between the two. The UK do not have a budget shortfall (*edit* not this year anyway, 2004 was £37billion - to the USs $668.1 billion), all the UKs trade deficits are made up by taxation. That is the difference.
Why do you keep referencing trade deficits if you aren't talking about them? How is a trade deficit "made up by taxation"?

From what I've read,the UK's budget ran a deficit in 2005 of 3.23% of GDP.

   
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3412495.stm]UK Budget Deficit[/url]
2002: 1.53% of GDP
2003: 2.91% of GDP
2004: 2.94% of GDP
2005: 3.23% of GDP
Maastricht basis
Source: OECD

The US budget defict in 2004 was $668.1 billion? That's not accurate, even according to UK reports:[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4343814.stm]$412 bil.[/url]

In 2005 the budget deficit was $100 billion less.

Bertster7 wrote:

The US government is losing money - which with it's strong economy it should not be. Massive government spending and tax cuts have led to the government not covering its own costs which result in a budget deficit. This has been going on for ALL of Bush's presidency. Taxation in the US must rise and government spending must be reduced, otherwise bad things will happen. Every year Bush has been in office the US government has lost hundreds of billions of dollars. The government make up the shortfall by borrowing money, this has been going on since 2001, the situation IS becoming critical.
Once again, there are far too many similarities between the US economy and the UK economy to say the situation is becoming critical for one but not the other, and the UK has a strong economy relative to Europe.

It would seem to me that in order to make a case for the economic situation in the US to be "critical" the condition would need to get worse year upon year, and that the economies of other countries that are not "ctitical" should show massive differences based on GDP ratio. This has not been shown to be the case.
2006-08-15 17:19:27
alpinestar
Member
+304|6858|New York City baby.
ta ta.....
https://img104.imageshack.us/img104/8086/culturefg6.jpg
2006-08-15 17:30:28
RoosterCantrell
Goodbye :)
+399|6742|Somewhere else

Ill try to keep it short to save you from a paifully long post.

Im American.  I love the high oil prices for America. NO Joke.  I think America needs to learn a little about conservation (im guilty too).  SUVs are unnecessary and incredibly wasteful. I feel that the Iraq war and thier supposed weapons of mass destruction is a total farse and a lie to go to war. The war, however,
wasnt all bad. Like previously stated, Saddam was a brutal dictator. Who are we to say who dictates and who doesnt? thats debatable.As to why people hate americans (reffering to the topic starting post) ID say since America is one of the top countries, our actions are felt globally, and our actions arent always the ideal course. So the more widespread one countries actions, the more and in greater numbers the people react.

Anyone who denies G W Bushes actions, at times, are questionable, is a bit off thier rocker.  Plus, most intelligent people dont waste thier time with true close minded idiots. Which reminds me of a pic I saw on the internet depicting ground zero in NY. with large text saying "All I needed to know about Islam I learned on 9/11" which is one of the most ingorant things I have seen in a while. So, im sure everyone can agree, why bother disputing that with the pics creator? I ignore such idiocy, and maybe thats a bad thing.  Letting an idiot speak out, or worse A large group of them who then label themselves "patriotic" are actually making other
Americans look Idiotic. I am not patriotic. I fully respect and appreciate the life of an American where car bombs, war, and/or famine arent part of my daily life. But for me to piss on some ground and call it mine and no one else can have it, is foolish.

Americas actions are A part of its war on terror.  September 11th was fucking sickening and evil. Bin Laden hates America for (dumbing it down to make it quick) foreign policies and its actions in Middle eastern nations. Bush SERIOUSLY needs to shut the hell up about how the terrorists "hate freedom". Bin Laden makes a valid point in his beliefs to some extent. (KEEP IN mind I do not believe in BIn Laden or support his disposition or his Jihadist beleifs in any way)Sometimes, I agree, we need to stay out of some of other countries issues, mainly alot of religeous debates over certain religeonS (I mean many religeons here) defined holy land.

However, making his point by crashing civilian planes into non-military targets causing massive sensless death is not a justifyable means to make a point, and he deserves death for it. And yes, our country has attacked other countries and caused senseless deaths.  And certain people should be held accountable for it, an Oops! sorry! is not enough of an apology, and unfortunately the only retribution for some is blood.

Our military actions are not intended for terror and do not target innocent people. Sadly yes, innocent people die.  I can understand (not empathize) how someone can hate the U.S. for some of the things our country has done.  Murder is not a solution or resolution.  I think war is not a good solution either. Anyone who thinks that war is cool, or neat because we kick military ass, should feel the emotion of holding thier dying child in thier arms because of military actions. No one should go through that, just know how it feels. even though thats impossible....

Sorry, topic at hand! I have been on a few BF2 servers that turned into battle and debate. and sadly, alot of americans have justified any defnse with genious gems such as " shut up sand nigger lover" and that can rapidly paint a bad pciture of america in general. Ive never met alot of cockroaches in my life, but I generally hate cock roaches.  So, overall Americas foreign policy can be a dishonest agenda, and people affected by that or disagreeing to those polices are not going to be soothed with ignorant and intolerant rhetoric from the ignorant peoples of America. But, as this forum proves. MOST people dont hate America, just from time to time, and Angry WTF?! is shot Americas way from the "european countries".

I failed from keeping it short..sorry.

Last edited by RoosterCantrell (2006-08-15 17:31:07)

2006-08-15 17:43:22
fadedsteve
GOP Sympathizer
+266|6753|Menlo Park, CA

Vilham wrote:

Vindicarre wrote:

Vilham wrote:


sorry but you quite literally know bugger all about econmics and its why america is entering a recession at the moment. Before you tell me it isnt, IT IS! Check any Economics or political program on TV or any good source on the internet.
Ahhh, I see. The U.S economy is growing at a rate unmatched by Europe (2.5% this quarter, 5.6% last). The estimations are for a 3.5% growth this year compared to 3.2% last year.

Let's compare that to Europe's largest economy, Germany's economy grew at .9% (even with the World Cup influx).

France? Their economy grew at twice the expected rate! That is a whopping 1.1-1.2%!

How about the UK?  Their economy grew at .8% this quarter...hmmm.

By the way the BBC headlines that accompanied these stories:

"Brakes Slam on US Economic Growth"
"UK's Economic Growth Accelerates"
"Germany's Economy Picks Up Speed"

No wonder people think they are well informed about economic growth; they only read the headlines.

As you can see this is my first post, when time permits, I'l address the OP's query.
Yet again another person who doesnt know how the economic cycle works. Read and learn... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_cycle

All economies grow, however imagine a sin wave that is tilted at 30 degrees to it goes upwards. If you dont know what a sin wave is you should go back to school.
The very fact you use wikipedia as your source tells me you are FULL OF SHIT!!

This is just typical euro shit talking that they cant back up!! In the end, America isnt perfect, we never claimed that we were!! We just are the number one super power, and countries that dont do shit, and dont matter, get pissed at us! ITS JEALOUSY in its purist form, its quite flattering actually!

The fact remains, there is no other country in the world, where you can literally show up having dirt in your pockets, and turn it into wearing a 3 peice suit!! Its the entreprenurial spirit that thrives here, NO WHERE on earth can say they have better entreprenurial opportunities than the USA! By the way, our economy WILL BE JUST FINE MY FRIEND! 

Hey I would RATHER be on top!! Then constantly bitching that its someone elses countries fault for the ills of the world ALL THE TIME!!! Bottom line is it could be A LOT worse. . . . and you know it!!
2006-08-15 17:47:41
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6824

fadedsteve wrote:

The very fact you use wikipedia as your source tells me you are FULL OF SHIT!!
As opposed to you vague assertions that you've read something somewhere?
2006-08-15 18:29:06
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6844|SE London

Vindicarre wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

I am not talking of trade deficit.
I'm sorry that I took this line to mean you were referencing the trade deficit:

Bertster7 wrote:

US imports massively outnumber US exports and that is not a good thing.

Bertster7 wrote:

I am talking about the US governments overall budget deficit. There is a big difference between the two. The UK do not have a budget shortfall (*edit* not this year anyway, 2004 was £37billion - to the USs $668.1 billion), all the UKs trade deficits are made up by taxation. That is the difference.
Why do you keep referencing trade deficits if you aren't talking about them? How is a trade deficit "made up by taxation"?

From what I've read,the UK's budget ran a deficit in 2005 of 3.23% of GDP.

   
UK Budget Deficit
2002: 1.53% of GDP
2003: 2.91% of GDP
2004: 2.94% of GDP
2005: 3.23% of GDP
Maastricht basis
Source: OECD

The US budget defict in 2004 was $668.1 billion? That's not accurate, even according to UK reports:$412 bil.

In 2005 the budget deficit was $100 billion less.

Bertster7 wrote:

The US government is losing money - which with it's strong economy it should not be. Massive government spending and tax cuts have led to the government not covering its own costs which result in a budget deficit. This has been going on for ALL of Bush's presidency. Taxation in the US must rise and government spending must be reduced, otherwise bad things will happen. Every year Bush has been in office the US government has lost hundreds of billions of dollars. The government make up the shortfall by borrowing money, this has been going on since 2001, the situation IS becoming critical.
Once again, there are far too many similarities between the US economy and the UK economy to say the situation is becoming critical for one but not the other, and the UK has a strong economy relative to Europe.

It would seem to me that in order to make a case for the economic situation in the US to be "critical" the condition would need to get worse year upon year, and that the economies of other countries that are not "ctitical" should show massive differences based on GDP ratio. This has not been shown to be the case.
My sources on the UK budget deficit, were treasury predictions from a few years back (didn't check the date) - ooops, sorry - my bad. My data on US budget gaps is much more up to date (March 2006 is the most recent). But your info on UK budget deficit also includes predictions, since the article you link to is from 2004 and lists the 2005 deficit, so it's an easy mistake to make - I apologise for my error. I'm going to sleep now 'cos it's 2:30am over here and if I keep trying to discuss economics I will make mistakes - I'll be back, refreshed and ready - tomorrow.

Ultimately you've got to criticise Bush for turning a budget with a surplus of $128 billion in 2001, into a record deificit - no matter which figures you look at - last year. You might want to check my link to the Times article, I could have misread something there - I am quite tired, but please do check it out.

Bush's tax cuts cost the government $600 billion a year. Public spending has also risen under Bush. It's not a great state of affairs.
2006-08-15 18:31:23
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6844|SE London

fadedsteve wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Vindicarre wrote:


Ahhh, I see. The U.S economy is growing at a rate unmatched by Europe (2.5% this quarter, 5.6% last). The estimations are for a 3.5% growth this year compared to 3.2% last year.

Let's compare that to Europe's largest economy, Germany's economy grew at .9% (even with the World Cup influx).

France? Their economy grew at twice the expected rate! That is a whopping 1.1-1.2%!

How about the UK?  Their economy grew at .8% this quarter...hmmm.

By the way the BBC headlines that accompanied these stories:

"Brakes Slam on US Economic Growth"
"UK's Economic Growth Accelerates"
"Germany's Economy Picks Up Speed"

No wonder people think they are well informed about economic growth; they only read the headlines.

As you can see this is my first post, when time permits, I'l address the OP's query.
Yet again another person who doesnt know how the economic cycle works. Read and learn... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_cycle

All economies grow, however imagine a sin wave that is tilted at 30 degrees to it goes upwards. If you dont know what a sin wave is you should go back to school.
The very fact you use wikipedia as your source tells me you are FULL OF SHIT!!

This is just typical euro shit talking that they cant back up!! In the end, America isnt perfect, we never claimed that we were!! We just are the number one super power, and countries that dont do shit, and dont matter, get pissed at us! ITS JEALOUSY in its purist form, its quite flattering actually!

The fact remains, there is no other country in the world, where you can literally show up having dirt in your pockets, and turn it into wearing a 3 peice suit!! Its the entreprenurial spirit that thrives here, NO WHERE on earth can say they have better entreprenurial opportunities than the USA! By the way, our economy WILL BE JUST FINE MY FRIEND! 

Hey I would RATHER be on top!! Then constantly bitching that its someone elses countries fault for the ills of the world ALL THE TIME!!! Bottom line is it could be A LOT worse. . . . and you know it!!
The very fact you never quote any sources or say anything of any real relevance or value, makes me think you are full of shit.

Prove me wrong.
2006-08-16 01:16:15
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7028|UK
At the moment America is entering a recession http://www.ecdev.gov.bc.ca/2010secretar … xorisk.htm and infact as you can see a US recession would be an terrible thing a lot of countries would suffer a backlash and may enter a recession themselves. Heres another one for you http://futures.fxstreet.com/futures/con … dor=110700

The following is what will slow the US recession to a rate that won't cause too much damage.

"The assumptions may turn out to be wrong -

    * Iraq may stop its slide into civil war. The Iraqi people may rally behind a leader and use a 'Ghandi-like' or 'Lebanon-like' approach of non-violent protest to successfully remove the colonising power and regain control of their oil. And then switch to Euros.
    * The US resolve to complete acquisition or control of Middle East reserves may founder under moral pressure.
    * Iran may not be coerced by selective missle strikes into obeying US dictates when it eventually shifts to accepting Euros and gold as well as dollars.
    * Saudi Arabia may broaden its reserves away from dependance on US dollars without reprisal.

In these very unlikely scenarios, the dollar will lose its value rapidly, and the USA slide into recession will be both faster and more severe than it would otherwise have been."

http://www.naturalhub.com/slweb/fading_ … erview.htm

Just so you know what the war in Iraq COULD (i cant stress that enough, im not making claims about the war this is someone elses words) be about http://usmarket.seekingalpha.com/article/8940

Last edited by Vilham (2006-08-16 01:18:47)

 

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