stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|6963|California

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

stryyker wrote:

CyrusTheVirus wrote:


If we soften our stance in repsonse to any of these liberal viewpoints chipping away at our value system we'll be on the slippery slope to communism before we know it. It's time to stop the rot.
i will blow everyone in your family if American democracy ever gives way to communism.
Well you'd better pucker up if this lib-crusade continues unabated.
if you honestly believe that Communism will overtake the United States, i think you should go back to high school and retake that Governmet/Economy class you failed miserably at.


now, be gone with you peon.
CyrusTheVirus
E PLURIBUS UNUM
+36|6716|United States of America

stryyker wrote:

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

stryyker wrote:


i will blow everyone in your family if American democracy ever gives way to communism.
Well you'd better pucker up if this lib-crusade continues unabated.
if you honestly believe that Communism will overtake the United States, i think you should go back to high school and retake that Governmet/Economy class you failed miserably at.


now, be gone with you peon.
Communism will not 'overtake the United States' and do you wanna know why? Because the right is in the ascendancy that's why and we're here to stay. A strong conservative America, setting an example for all other nations, will prevail over the bleatings of the libs (commies). We must always be mindful of the left however - they never cease to explore new ways of reigning in our power and influence.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6917|Canberra, AUS
You really are dumb. You are trying to attack something that you know LITTLE about.

So let's coach you a little.

1. Liberalism stresses the importance of representative liberal democracy as the best form of government. Yeah, DEMOCRACY. You know, that thing you're always trying to 'defend'?

2. Liberalism advocates civil rights for all citizens: the protection and privileges of personal liberty extended to all citizens equally by law. Why would you be against this?

3. The rule of law and equality before the law are fundamental to liberalism. 'Justice for all' springs to mind...

4. Racism is incompatible with liberalism. Liberals in Europe are generally hostile to any attempts by the state to enforce equality in employment by legal action against employers, whereas in the United States many liberals favor such affirmative action.

Now this is where my definition of 'liberalism' differs from yours. I personally don't paticularly like affirmative action. You don't preach equality by dishiing INequality So maybe I agree with you in part with here. But racism is still a big, big, BIG no no.

5. Economic liberals today stress the importance of a free market and free trade, and seek to limit government intervention in both the domestic economy and foreign trade - but that's not my cup of tea. Beautiful in theory, horrible in practice. So I prefer (once again) the Euro-liberal version: supporting privatisation and liberalisation in health care and other public sectors. Modern European liberals generally tend to believe in a smaller role for government than would be supported by most social democrats, let alone socialists or communists.

Two things to note from that little piece there:

5A. This is a DIRECT CONTRAVENTION of communist philosophy. PRIVATISATION for us. Communists want it the other way round.

5B. It's also useful to note this is one of the key tenets of my 'liberalism'.

6. Liberals generally believe in neutral government, in the sense that it is not for the state to determine personal values. Better to let people make up their own damn mind.

7. Personally, I am one of the strongest supporters of multiculturalism around. Too many brilliant minds are being wasted in stagnant places in the third world. Either we FIX this problem by fixing the stagnation in the third world or we encourage those brilliant minds to come to places where they can put their talents to use. Although, according to t3h wikipedia:

"Some liberal parties now oppose multiculturalism, which they see damaging national unity. Others liberal parties embrace multiculturalism as enriching society, but object to cultures which deny rights to women or to other ethnic groups. And there are some liberals who argue for complete tolerance of all ethnic groups and oppose forcing any values, such as women's rights, on cultures that have different views."

8. Many liberals share values with environmentalists, such as the Green Party. They seek to minimize the damage done by the human species on the natural world, and to maximize the regeneration of damaged areas.

You may not care about the environment. You may not care that in 30 years we might not have oil (MIGHT), or no rainforests, or be on the brink of disaster due to 'climate change' (note the quotes). But I certainly do - I'M (as in my generation) the one who'll be cleaning up after you.

9. Liberals believe in the right of every individual to enjoy the essential human liberties, and support self-determination for national minorities. Essential also is the free exchange of ideas, news, goods and services between people, as well as freedom of travel within and between all countries. Liberals generally oppose censorship, protective trade barriers, and exchange regulations. Just all the obvious stuff that sort of fits in above.

10. Left-wing politics USUALLY (and I mean USUALLY) abides by the principles set out above.

11. COMMUNISM, on the other hand: "Nonetheless, Communism differs significantly from other politics that are usually classified as left wing, and most left-wingers (even many far left groups) believe Communism violates core left-wing principles like justice, human rights and democracy. The argument that Communism should be viewed independently of the conventional left-right spectrum is perhaps supported by the work of theorists like Karl Popper and Hannah Arendt, through the development of the concept of totalitarianism, as a form of politics common to fascism and Stalinism.

There are political currents which describe themselves as communist who criticise the states created by Communist parties. Trotskyists and council communists, for example, regard the totalitarianism of the former Soviet Union to be the result of Stalinism and its betrayals of genuine communist ideology. Many of these critics, however, recognise a kinship between Communism and the left. Likewise, most right-wingers (including many nationalists) reject any association with Nazism and fascism, although many recognise these are right-wing ideologies.

Some say that leftist-inspired welfare state reforms in many non-Communist countries, such as the establishment of social security and recognition of labour unions, helped to stave off Communism by alleviating the excesses of capitalism, hence protecting and preserving social support for capitalism."

That's all for now. Thanks to wikipedia for being a HUGE help here.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
CyrusTheVirus
E PLURIBUS UNUM
+36|6716|United States of America

Spark wrote:

You really are dumb. You are trying to attack something that you know LITTLE about.

So let's coach you a little.

1. Liberalism stresses the importance of representative liberal democracy as the best form of government. Yeah, DEMOCRACY. You know, that thing you're always trying to 'defend'?

2. Liberalism advocates civil rights for all citizens: the protection and privileges of personal liberty extended to all citizens equally by law. Why would you be against this?

3. The rule of law and equality before the law are fundamental to liberalism. 'Justice for all' springs to mind...

4. Racism is incompatible with liberalism. Liberals in Europe are generally hostile to any attempts by the state to enforce equality in employment by legal action against employers, whereas in the United States many liberals favor such affirmative action.

Now this is where my definition of 'liberalism' differs from yours. I personally don't paticularly like affirmative action. You don't preach equality by dishiing INequality So maybe I agree with you in part with here. But racism is still a big, big, BIG no no.

5. Economic liberals today stress the importance of a free market and free trade, and seek to limit government intervention in both the domestic economy and foreign trade - but that's not my cup of tea. Beautiful in theory, horrible in practice. So I prefer (once again) the Euro-liberal version: supporting privatisation and liberalisation in health care and other public sectors. Modern European liberals generally tend to believe in a smaller role for government than would be supported by most social democrats, let alone socialists or communists.

Two things to note from that little piece there:

5A. This is a DIRECT CONTRAVENTION of communist philosophy. PRIVATISATION for us. Communists want it the other way round.

5B. It's also useful to note this is one of the key tenets of my 'liberalism'.

6. Liberals generally believe in neutral government, in the sense that it is not for the state to determine personal values. Better to let people make up their own damn mind.

7. Personally, I am one of the strongest supporters of multiculturalism around. Too many brilliant minds are being wasted in stagnant places in the third world. Either we FIX this problem by fixing the stagnation in the third world or we encourage those brilliant minds to come to places where they can put their talents to use. Although, according to t3h wikipedia:

"Some liberal parties now oppose multiculturalism, which they see damaging national unity. Others liberal parties embrace multiculturalism as enriching society, but object to cultures which deny rights to women or to other ethnic groups. And there are some liberals who argue for complete tolerance of all ethnic groups and oppose forcing any values, such as women's rights, on cultures that have different views."

8. Many liberals share values with environmentalists, such as the Green Party. They seek to minimize the damage done by the human species on the natural world, and to maximize the regeneration of damaged areas.

You may not care about the environment. You may not care that in 30 years we might not have oil (MIGHT), or no rainforests, or be on the brink of disaster due to 'climate change' (note the quotes). But I certainly do - I'M (as in my generation) the one who'll be cleaning up after you.

9. Liberals believe in the right of every individual to enjoy the essential human liberties, and support self-determination for national minorities. Essential also is the free exchange of ideas, news, goods and services between people, as well as freedom of travel within and between all countries. Liberals generally oppose censorship, protective trade barriers, and exchange regulations. Just all the obvious stuff that sort of fits in above.

10. Left-wing politics USUALLY (and I mean USUALLY) abides by the principles set out above.

11. COMMUNISM, on the other hand: "Nonetheless, Communism differs significantly from other politics that are usually classified as left wing, and most left-wingers (even many far left groups) believe Communism violates core left-wing principles like justice, human rights and democracy. The argument that Communism should be viewed independently of the conventional left-right spectrum is perhaps supported by the work of theorists like Karl Popper and Hannah Arendt, through the development of the concept of totalitarianism, as a form of politics common to fascism and Stalinism.

There are political currents which describe themselves as communist who criticise the states created by Communist parties. Trotskyists and council communists, for example, regard the totalitarianism of the former Soviet Union to be the result of Stalinism and its betrayals of genuine communist ideology. Many of these critics, however, recognise a kinship between Communism and the left. Likewise, most right-wingers (including many nationalists) reject any association with Nazism and fascism, although many recognise these are right-wing ideologies.

Some say that leftist-inspired welfare state reforms in many non-Communist countries, such as the establishment of social security and recognition of labour unions, helped to stave off Communism by alleviating the excesses of capitalism, hence protecting and preserving social support for capitalism."

That's all for now. Thanks to wikipedia for being a HUGE help here.
Semantics.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6917|Canberra, AUS
How does your interpretation differ from mine then?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
CyrusTheVirus
E PLURIBUS UNUM
+36|6716|United States of America

Spark wrote:

How does your interpretation differ from mine then?
Liberalism is a bridge to communism. It's like pot being a 'gateway' drug.
Tjasso
the "Commander"
+102|6766|the Netherlands
Kill ém all , they havent learned ANYTHING from History ... you know who i mean ...bloody fascists !!! lets use the hotel glitch and bann em from the middle east ( the badguys that is ) you know who the badguys are .. ooh great joke your majesty FUBAR BOMB them with CANNABIS BOMBS !!!!! so they obey the DUTCH!! hahahaha

Last edited by Tjasso (2006-08-08 03:24:49)

Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6917|Canberra, AUS

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

Spark wrote:

How does your interpretation differ from mine then?
Liberalism is a bridge to communism. It's like pot being a 'gateway' drug.

1. Obviously you failed to read point 11. I'm not surprised, given how quickly you 'read' it. While you're at it, have a look at 5 (and 5B), too.

2. There is no evidence that pot is a gateway drug scientifically. Socially, yes.

Last edited by Spark (2006-08-08 03:27:50)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
CyrusTheVirus
E PLURIBUS UNUM
+36|6716|United States of America

Spark wrote:

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

Spark wrote:

How does your interpretation differ from mine then?
Liberalism is a bridge to communism. It's like pot being a 'gateway' drug.

1. Obviously you failed to read point 11. I'm not surprised, given how quickly you 'read' it. While you're at it, have a look at 5 (and 5B), too.

2. There is no evidence that pot is a gateway drug scientifically. Socially, yes.
I read the whole thing. It's like this - you jump from a conservative political climate to a liberal one and the next jump - to communism - is not as great a leap. Once liberals have a stranglehold on politics they can set about redefining the one or two non-communist values they have to begin phase two of the communisation of the west.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6917|Canberra, AUS
I'm sorry, but I've looked over this argument many times and still cannot see the 'logic' behind these conclusions. Let me boil it down for you.

Liberalism has just TWO major features:

1. The state is not god. Suspicion of the state is a healthy thing and the state's power should be minimised.

2. The INDIVIDUAL should have his say. INDIVIDUAL rights ARE important.

Communism:

1. The State IS GOD. End of story.

2. The individual is unimportant, a byproduct, a tool for the STATE.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6917|Canberra, AUS

Skruples wrote:

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

Spark wrote:



1. Obviously you failed to read point 11. I'm not surprised, given how quickly you 'read' it. While you're at it, have a look at 5 (and 5B), too.

2. There is no evidence that pot is a gateway drug scientifically. Socially, yes.
I read the whole thing. It's like this - you jump from a conservative political climate to a liberal one and the next jump - to communism - is not as great a leap. Once liberals have a stranglehold on politics they can set about redefining the one or two non-communist values they have to begin phase two of the communisation of the west.
Lol. People like you are the reason I try and avoid political discussions on these forums.
Woah. That's the first time I've ever seen Skruples 'lol' someone on THIS forum. Maybe you have to take a look at your own narrow-mindedness.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
BVC
Member
+325|6938
Red Dawn is a great movie thats very relevant if you want to talk about communism overtaking the USA.  One of my favourites, actually.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6908|NT, like Mick Dundee

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

Spark wrote:

CyrusTheVirus wrote:


Liberalism is a bridge to communism. It's like pot being a 'gateway' drug.

1. Obviously you failed to read point 11. I'm not surprised, given how quickly you 'read' it. While you're at it, have a look at 5 (and 5B), too.

2. There is no evidence that pot is a gateway drug scientifically. Socially, yes.
I read the whole thing. It's like this - you jump from a conservative political climate to a liberal one and the next jump - to communism - is not as great a leap. Once liberals have a stranglehold on politics they can set about redefining the one or two non-communist values they have to begin phase two of the communisation of the west.
It's like this - you jump from a liberal political climate to a conservative one and the next jump - to fascism - is not as great a leap. Once conservatives have a stranglehold on politics they can set about redefining the one or two non-fascist values they have to begin phase two of fascism spreading across the west.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
CyrusTheVirus
E PLURIBUS UNUM
+36|6716|United States of America
Communism will never take hold in this great nation of mine. I vote we sponsor some ferries to ship all the libs to their social paradise on Cuba.
CyrusTheVirus
E PLURIBUS UNUM
+36|6716|United States of America

Flecco wrote:

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

Spark wrote:



1. Obviously you failed to read point 11. I'm not surprised, given how quickly you 'read' it. While you're at it, have a look at 5 (and 5B), too.

2. There is no evidence that pot is a gateway drug scientifically. Socially, yes.
I read the whole thing. It's like this - you jump from a conservative political climate to a liberal one and the next jump - to communism - is not as great a leap. Once liberals have a stranglehold on politics they can set about redefining the one or two non-communist values they have to begin phase two of the communisation of the west.
It's like this - you jump from a liberal political climate to a conservative one and the next jump - to fascism - is not as great a leap. Once conservatives have a stranglehold on politics they can set about redefining the one or two non-fascist values they have to begin phase two of fascism spreading across the west.
Guess what? We are in a conservative political climate - one that is here to stay too. Last time I checked GW Bush hadn't declared himself dictator of the U.S. of A.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6908|NT, like Mick Dundee

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

Communism will never take hold in this great nation of mine. I vote we sponsor some ferries to ship all the libs to their social paradise on Cuba.
If you ever thought it would you are more paranoid than Alex Jones.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6908|NT, like Mick Dundee

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

Flecco wrote:

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

I read the whole thing. It's like this - you jump from a conservative political climate to a liberal one and the next jump - to communism - is not as great a leap. Once liberals have a stranglehold on politics they can set about redefining the one or two non-communist values they have to begin phase two of the communisation of the west.
It's like this - you jump from a liberal political climate to a conservative one and the next jump - to fascism - is not as great a leap. Once conservatives have a stranglehold on politics they can set about redefining the one or two non-fascist values they have to begin phase two of fascism spreading across the west.
Guess what? We are in a conservative political climate - one that is here to stay too. Last time I checked GW Bush hadn't declared himself dictator of the U.S. of A.
P.A.T.R.I.O.T act anybody? Oh, Hitler didn't declare himself dicator either, he won it by vote (1 vote as it happens). The Riechstag thought it was a good idea to hand him executive powers.

EDIT

Btw, you missed the point of my post. If it doesn't work one way why should it work the other. I don't remember Bill Clinton and the "filthy liberal democrates" attempting to turn the US of A into a communist state.

Last edited by Flecco (2006-08-08 04:24:00)

Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
TeamZephyr
Maintaining My Rage Since 1975
+124|6772|Hillside, Melbourne, Australia

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

Communism will never take hold in this great nation of mine. I vote we sponsor some ferries to ship all the libs to their social paradise on Cuba.
Ever heard of GEORGE WASHINGTON?

He helped found America on LIBERAL DEMOCRACTIC principles.

And saying that liberalism leads to communism is a ridiculous statement, SOCIALISM is the gateway to communism. Liberalism encourages personal freedom and democracy, the same principles the US was founded on, while communism is a entirely staterun totalitarian system with no democracy at all.

And with your "ship the libs to Cuba" statement, way to be totally un-american, I thought the great US of A was a country in which personal freedoms and opinions were encouraged?
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|6964|Sydney, Australia

Spark wrote:


Communism:

1. The State IS GOD. End of story.

2. The individual is unimportant, a byproduct, a tool for the STATE.
Ah, sounds like Nineteen Eighty-Four#


#For the uneducated, this is a famous political novel written by George Orwell (in 1949 as history would have it) that depicts a dystopia with an omnipresent state in total control. It details one man's attempt to break the system, and of course, his subsequent failure.

It is interesting to note that the book contains a 'manufactured war' between 3 superpowers. It is detailed that the war exists only so there is work to be done, and the 'fruits of labor' are consumed. American corporations contracted to rebuild Iraq, anyone?




CyrusTheVirus wrote:

Communism will never take hold in this great nation of mine.
Familiar with the play The Crucible?* All you have to do is replace 'communism' with 'witchcraft'...


*Written by Aurthur Miller, this is a famous play about the 1692 Salem witch trials. (Any good Puritan should remember them). More getting to the reason I referenced this play... as a twist to the story, this play is a parody of the 1950's McCarthyism and the Red Scare. (That would be Communist 'witch hunts', prolific in Hollywood and the acting industry.)




TeamZephyr wrote:

And saying that liberalism leads to communism is a ridiculous statement, SOCIALISM is the gateway to communism. Liberalism encourages personal freedom and democracy, the same principles the US was founded on, while communism is a entirely staterun totalitarian system with no democracy at all.
Correct on all accounts.




TeamZephyr wrote:

I thought the great US of A was a country in which personal freedoms and opinions were encouraged?
I'm sure there is some law that allows the CIA, FBI or even NASA to monitor your personal activity. Just don't spend too long researching it, otherwise you might dissapear one night...



Wasn't that a lot,
Mcminty.

Last edited by mcminty (2006-08-08 05:18:56)

jonnykill
The Microwave Man
+235|6922

SealXo wrote:

Come on your all bitching about cutting off lebanons supplies? When they PROVOKED the war and started it.

(Dont say hezbollah isnt lebanon , its part of their gov like the KGB)

What do you think would have heppened if we didnt bomb the Axis's supply lines in world war 2? Hmm? I sure as hell know. We would have lost teh Goddamn war.

I say I LOVE JEWS because THEY are doing what AMERICAS not. We are GIVING Al Queda Supplies (We buy the oil which is the money funded ot them). So i say. BRAVO Israel for using the correct strategy.

So the point is. It's fukin' war son. Get over it,  It's strategy

They need to do whatever is nessessary, to unarm hezbollah so they don't get anihaliated. It's that simple they are playing ball.

We bombed Japan, but its what we needed to do. I say hell its better THEM than US
Negative !!! Blowing up all the infastructure has nothing to do with cutting off supplies to Hizbulah . Specially all the bridges next to peaceful Iran and tranquil Syria . Those countries are the corner stone of peace in the Middle East . Admadinajein ( lol ) was only joking when he said Israel needs to be wiped off the map and let me reassure you thier nuke program is for electricity needs only . Although Hizbulah has only a few seats in the Lebanon government they hold no water . Although they have a website theres nothing to see here .
Hizbulah is only interested in peace after they kicked Israel out of Lebanon in 2003 . Since then all they did was re-arm , dig more underground trench systems and gather 10,000 rockets from Iran to hold off the impending Israeli onslaught . Look Hizbulah has noly fired like 3,500 rockets at Isreal . Give them a break .
CyrusTheVirus
E PLURIBUS UNUM
+36|6716|United States of America

Flecco wrote:

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

Flecco wrote:

It's like this - you jump from a liberal political climate to a conservative one and the next jump - to fascism - is not as great a leap. Once conservatives have a stranglehold on politics they can set about redefining the one or two non-fascist values they have to begin phase two of fascism spreading across the west.
Guess what? We are in a conservative political climate - one that is here to stay too. Last time I checked GW Bush hadn't declared himself dictator of the U.S. of A.
P.A.T.R.I.O.T act anybody? Oh, Hitler didn't declare himself dicator either, he won it by vote (1 vote as it happens). The Riechstag thought it was a good idea to hand him executive powers.

EDIT

Btw, you missed the point of my post. If it doesn't work one way why should it work the other. I don't remember Bill Clinton and the "filthy liberal democrates" attempting to turn the US of A into a communist state.
Oh yeah that's right - I have to give a Sieg Heil everytime I see Bush on the TV. 'Doesn't work one way' - I think you'll find the status quo is working just fine. Let's keep it that way.

Last edited by CyrusTheVirus (2006-08-08 06:24:58)

kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6792|Southeastern USA
too bad for most of these arguments that the US is a representative republic and the founding fathers associated the word "democracy" with "mob rule"
siciliano732
Member
+202|6892|New York
Amen!
jonsimon
Member
+224|6738
Cyrus. No one told you? The COLD WAR IS OVER. Get over yourself "communism! commies! socialism! oh my!"

What kind of moron are you?
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6792|Southeastern USA

stryyker wrote:

CyrusTheVirus wrote:

D'you know what I find funny? How all these liberals (communists) think they can have any influence over the US-Israel alliance. Go and cry to your mommy at the UN while the big boys sort all this shit out.
liberalism and communism have nothing in common.
then why is it always libs trying to infer communist policy into our government,
if you do this, the state must control it
if you want to build this, you have to build it where the state says
if you want to sell this, you have to have a profit cap (oil especially)
this guy decided to smoke crack instead of going to school, you have to support him
if you want education, the state must provide for it

wasn't it stalin that said a state controlled education is essential for the communist ideal?

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