BF2S Forums "America kicked Britains ass..."

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

That doesn't matter to my point. I'm saying any victory where your country still works is a victory.

The British accomplished their goals though. I fail to see how they lost. Thier invasion wasn't repelled by the Americans, a treaty was signed for peace.

If I remember correctly I think it was repelled, and I know the US won a series of naval battles as well. The US didn't sit on their duffs asking Britain to sign a treaty.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

My point is why the hell was the impressment ever official in the first place. That's complete bs, taking people form other countries and forcing them into your navy. And, back to the beginning, if we were such pushovers, why did britain request a treaty?

Seriously, I've already stated that Britain would have won had all its resources been dedicated to the war with America, however, they weren't. You have ot ask what the objectives of the war were, and whether they were met or not.

Last edited by Bertster7 (2006-08-07 08:40:35)

Bertster7 wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

My point is why the hell was the impressment ever official in the first place. That's complete bs, taking people form other countries and forcing them into your navy. And, back to the beginning, if we were such pushovers, why did britain request a treaty?

Seriously, I've already stated that Britain would have won had all its resources been dedicated to the war with America, however, they weren't. You have ot ask what the objectives of the war were, and whether they were met or not.

American Objectives of the War :

1. To gain territory in North America.

2. To stop British violations of US sovreignty.

OK, do we agree so far?

Good.

(Sovreignty violations stopped 2 days prior to the start of the war)

What the Americans Achieved in the War :

Nothing.
They gained no territory at all and they could not stop the British violations of US sovreignty in the war because they had already stopped.

Sounds like they lost to me.

"That's complete bs, taking people form other countries and forcing them into your navy."

Oh yes and taking people from other countries and forcing them into slavery is fine.
One of the main points the Americans were pissed off about after the war was that the British did not return liberated slaves, because the British did not consider them property, they were free people - since slavery had been abolished in Britain.

Vilham wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Well the americans nearly lost about 10 times. Just gunna get my book about it and ill list them.

How about just listing all the battles and who won/lost?

Ok if we put it that way the British won nearly every single battle that there was. Anyway give me time im still writing up this long responce.

manitobapaintballa wrote:

i'll admit i didn't read the 3 pages so i'm sorry if i repeat anything

the us invaded canada and with a pretty small force of british regulars, drunken farmers, angry natives, and certified crazys (officers) we reppelled the american maifest destiny.

the americans invaded us because they thought that it was thier destiny to control all of north america.

the first 3 forts that canadians took we didn't even fire a shot the american brass didn't even get around to telling alot of their own military about the war before they told the canadians about it.  hell the first fort we took they let us in and we told em that they were surunded and to surrender with about 50 natives "wooping" just to scare em they layed down arms.

the next 2 we took knew that they were at war and one fort had already been taken, so they same force that took the first base just sat around and "wooped" for a couple of days then one guy walked up and told em to surrender and they did.

long story short is when we burned down washington it was a mistake, we took the whitehouse and when we celebrated fire insued.

Bertster7 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Flecco wrote:

Nope, Brits asked for the treaty.


Pearl Harbour was bombed, the mainland of the US of A wasn't invaded by Japan at any stage in the war. I do believe Canada asked for independence, just as Australia did.

Yeah, the Brits asked for the treaty, proving my point. If they were not losing and/or wanted their resources directed elsewhere, why would they have asked for a treaty? The U.S. never asked for a treaty, and was ready and willing to keep fighting.

What do you term as an invasion? Japan violated U.S. airspace without permission, I'd say that's invading.

That's not invading.
To invade you need to conquer, that's just attacking.

The Americans technically lost the war of 1812, they started it and didn't achieve any of their original goals. Their invasion was repelled by the British - I don't see what's hard to understand here. The British were involved in more important wars and didn't really care about the US, so they pulled out and got on with more important matters as soon as the American invasion was thwarted, but before they left they marched on DC and burnt it to the ground in retaliation.

Wikipedia wrote:

The War of 1812 (in Britain, the American War of 1812 to 1815), was fought between the United States and the British Empire from 1812 to 1815, on land in North America and at sea. The United States, which declared war and attacked British colonies and shipping first, ended the war without gaining any territory, its invasion of British North America having been defeated by British, Canadian and aboriginal forces; however, the British ceased the sovereignty violations, to which the United States had objected, two days prior to the start of the war.

I don't get why Americans brag about the war of 1812, they lost - it seems like a stupid thing to do.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

On January 8, 1815, American forces, under General Jackson, decisively defeat the British forces trying to capture New Orleans. The battle, which takes place after the Treaty of Ghent has been signed, is the most decisive American victory of the war.

From the same site.

I agree that many were misinformed, but it is easy to see why they were incorrect.

Very true.

I can see why a lot of Americans who don't know the facts behind it seem to think the war was a resounding success. The only success of the war as I see it, was the enhancement of the reputation of the US military, who had proved themselves to be better than most thought they were. The British did underestimate the Americans, but they did beat them.

So far as the British were concerned the war was about keeping the Americans out of the territories they had tried to invade. The invasion was repelled. The war, for the British, was a success.

Yeah that's pretty much right, it was a victory for the U.S. because they proved they could be an annoying fly to what was then still a major world power, and Britain succeeded because the swatted the fly to make it go away. As I quoted in the summary from that site, it ended in a stalemate, both sides getting what they really wanted.

Bertster7 wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

The embargoes were lifted before the war was declared, it's just that the US president hadn't heard about it by that time.

The trading vessels that you are refering to were 'stolen' under these embargoes, since they were lifted before the war began they cannot really be counted amongst the achievements of the war, can they?

Would you trust a country that had been kidnapping your citizens and putting them in their armed services when they said they'd stop?

They did stop. Trust was not even an issue as the Americans hadn't even heard of the cessation, the embargoes had been officially ended, they were over.

Towards the end of the war, at which point you seem to think the British were losing, the British had just triumphed over Napoleon (a dangerous adversary, not like the US) and sent reinforcements to the Navy, who then won every engagement they were involved in. More troops had been freed up to go and fight the US, but they couldn't be bothered. So they burnt down your capital and went home. I've never heard anything about the Americans marching on London.

You lost - face it.

jonsimon wrote:

redhawk454 wrote:

This guy contradicts himself. Above he says "to invade you need to conquer",  then says Americas invasion was repelled?

He isn't contradicting himself. What he meant is that an airplane flying over land is not invading. Where as a soldier marching over land is. The plane can't stop wherever he wants and set up a basecamp, the soldier can.