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2006-08-02 00:46:35
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6963
stryyker:  To say I shouldn't have a view is stupid.  Especially if your logic is that I'm biased.  How exactly am I biased, BTW?  Regardless, it doesn't matter.  Check the first post again, for clarification.  I've edited it again because people seem to be too stupid to follow basic directions.

k30dxedle:  What's funny, is it was turning out to be wildly successful, in that what I had intended as a vehicle for my comment on posters who ask certain people not to participate nearly turned into a serious discussion.  And then lazy people, like yourself, who couldn't be bothered even reading the first few posts which commented on my sarcasm, started flaming me for the idiocy of my request.  When Skruples said something, it was good because it made my point (unwittingly, albeit).  When the next few people flamed, it was funny that they were that stupid.  Now I'm beginning to wonder whether there's some sort of a ring of "Ignore sarcasm and comment like it's a serious post" people running about.
2006-08-02 01:57:53
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7121|California

you are, for excluding people that are the most obvious threat to your arguement

im not going to read anything you have written, because you bash America in every thread that mentions it.

fuck me for wanting to defend my country, i could give 2 shits what you 'think'
2006-08-02 02:00:33
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6963
Again, I have to re-iterate:

My comment about blaming America was not serious.  It was designed to prove a point.  Nor was my request that certain people don't participate.

This has to be at least the fifth time I've gone over this.
2006-08-02 02:02:57
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|7121|California

explain why you dont want the sites best debaters participating then.
2006-08-02 02:04:32
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6963

My first post (since I asked you to re-read) wrote:

EDIT 2:  For those still having trouble, I don't blame America for UN failures.  Nor did I want to have a discussion on it with the listed people not participating.  That would be stupid.  That is, in fact, my point.  That to ask for certain people not to participate in a discussion is stupid in the extreme.
2006-08-02 02:17:58
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7176|Noizyland

Keep this thread relevent guys or I'll have to close it.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
2006-08-02 02:20:39
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6963
Relevant to what?  The intent, or the stated topic?  Neither look like going anywhere.
2006-08-02 02:26:51
B.Schuss
I'm back, baby... ( sort of )
+664|7243|Cologne, Germany

sarcasm is hard to reckognize in written formats.

Anyway, although it is generally true that all member nations of the UN are responsible for its shortcomings,
I think it is also fair to allot special responsibility to the 5 permanent members of the security council. All of them, of course, not any country in particular.
They have the power to block every move made in the SC and it is my firm belief that most of them have used that power to selfishly protect their own interests ( or those of their allies ), without considering the broader perspective, putting their own considerations above those of the world community.

While that may be a totally natural and perceivable act, it is also opposed to the original concept of the UN as I understand it. I have always believed that the idea behind the UN was to put the interests of the world community above your own, at least to a certain extent. You give up a little power, for the benefit of the whole planet.

Of course, every nation has its own idea on how altruistic and unselfish they are prepared to be.

the UN needs structural reform, that's for sure.
2006-08-02 02:38:18
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6957
The United Nations needs to have all member nations pay for it in fixed percentage terms of their GDP, that same percentage applying to all member nations. The United Nations should also then be free from any vetoes, i.e. no nation holds veto power - truly democratic. Unfortunately the whole thing would collapse within days because the bigwigs would have none of it. The current UN is a charade through which the rich and powerful countries exert control over 'rogue' powers. For 'rogue' power read any country that doesn't make way for western economic imperialism (globalisation) or any country who is successfully operating a non-capitalist government (unless the government is a convenient capitalist puppet regime).

Last edited by CameronPoe (2006-08-02 02:40:19)

2006-08-02 02:49:53
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6963
The other problem becomes one of military force:  with no standing military, the UN needs someone to give it a punch.  Currently, that means the US, as the most powerful force on the planet.  The US can then use this, the same as any other country, to alter situations.  For example, US soldiers cannot be taken before the international war crimes tribunal, but rather are punished internally.  The real problem with this is that until there is a multi-superpower situation, who ever is in power will do exactly the same thing.  Today it's the US, in future it could be China, Europe, the Middle East, or (in the really long term) something out of Africa.

B.Schuss wrote:

sarcasm is hard to reckognize in written formats.
They don't need to recognise it, they just need to read the first page!

Last edited by Bubbalo (2006-08-02 02:52:13)

2006-08-02 02:53:03
USAFDude_1988
Will fly for food.
+120|6910|Daytona Beach, FL

k30dxedle wrote:

stryyker wrote:

i dont think the original poster should have a view, for he is obviously biased.

every single country in the UN has shortcomings. so in fact, every country contributes to its ineffectiveness.

so in essence, FUCK YOU Bubbalo, until you get a real view on the world backed with hard evidence
QFT. And on a side note, this is the most ridiculous/stupid failure of a topic I've ever seen.
2006-08-02 02:54:46
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6963
Have you even read any of the other posts?
2006-08-02 03:50:57
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7053|USA

Bubbalo wrote:

Personally, I think America.  And before we begin, I'd like to request that the following people don't participate:

unnamednewbie13
GunSlinger OIF II
yerdred
kr@cker
Capt. Foley
Lib-Sl@yer
Horseman 77
Alexanderthegrape
=OBS= EstebanRey
<[onex]>Headstone
fadedsteve
JG1567JG
Spark - until he learns that the France, Russia, China and UK bear no responsibility.
Kmarion
Cougar

I'm hoping that this will be a fair, balanced discussion.

EDIT:  Before you respond, read this page in full, and/or my first post on page 5.

EDIT 2:  For those still having trouble, I don't blame America for UN failures.  Nor did I want to have a discussion on it with the listed people not participating.  That would be stupid.  That is, in fact, my point.  That to ask for certain people not to participate in a discussion is stupid in the extreme.
awwwwwwww I didn't make the list.....i am hurt
2006-08-02 03:52:56
Bubbalo
The Lizzard
+541|6963
Gah!  That's you and Cougar I've forgotten.  Now, if this had been serious, I would have been screwed.  I mean, leaving someone like fadedsteve out would have just given all us crazy hippies someone to laugh at.  But you and Coug could have actually put up a fight.  Damn!
2006-08-02 03:59:20
lowing
Banned
+1,662|7053|USA

Bubbalo wrote:

Gah!  That's you and Cougar I've forgotten.  Now, if this had been serious, I would have been screwed.  I mean, leaving someone like fadedsteve out would have just given all us crazy hippies someone to laugh at.  But you and Coug could have actually put up a fight.  Damn!
THAT, I will take as a compliment.........for the record, I thought it was a pretty funny way to start a thread as well....lol
2006-12-21 11:00:30
acidkiller187
Member
+123|7032

Spark wrote:

Because I see that there's a lot that the US, UK, or any individual country has done for the current crisis.

I would like to change my view.

The supposed 'failures' of the UN do not lie with one country, or another, or any group of countries. It lies in the inherent structure and formation. The damn thing needs to be dissolved and based around EVERYONE, not just those who won a war sixty years ago. (I mean the security council)
I don't really know allot about "American History" in general, but i do know this. It doesn't matter were [IN THE WORLD] you are, there are always people that will say Americans think like this, Americans are responsible for that.
But you know what the funny thing is, America is one of  few country's that will blur out to the WORLD how great and powerful they are....... "quote" We got money. We got bombs. we are the most powerful country in the world. We got soldiers who are willing to die even though the cause isn't just, example IRAQ. And if you don't like it go fuck yourself.

So for people to turn around and say, that it is America fault for the UN's Failures wouldn't be right,  but they also wouldn't be wrong.

Plz. 'understand I'm not saying America is responsible for failure or anything related to the matter, I'm just trying to understand!

 

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