BF2S Forums Commanding from a vehicle

sry but your totally wrong....if you believe you are somehow helping your team to vitory you are a noob commanders that fight are actually doing nothing since the kills/caps they make dont mean jack....its the teams average score that goes to you....and if you kill sum1 nd say tht "its one less enemy for my comrades" then u are wrong since if you let your comrades kill him the team has a better chance of winning....you talk about the POS commanders DOING there job and you call them lame??? ffs get the facts b4 you put stuff like that on the forums.

GL Andy

The only productive thing that comes from capping is an extra spawn point for your team and you are correct in saying that.....but it would be wiser to send a squad to cap it since if you die your team doesnt have your assets. And spotting random enemies overhead while driving along is impossible unless you like driving off cliffs/into trees.

GL Andy

Seriously, you never spot enemies while driving or running for your teammates?

Wow, I knew I was in the minority, but that's pretty sad.  I'm constantly spotting tanks and choppers as I drive by (don't usually have the proper equipment to engage them)  I probably spot more enemies for my teammates as a regular squaddy than most commanders do.  Helps us win as a team all the quicker. 

As for capping spawn points for my team, yeah, it's absolutely essential sometimes.  If my team persists in going "down the throat" for 10 minutes and gets nowhere, it behooves me to hop in an FAV and head around to the back to cap a new spawn.  It never fails, as soon as that flag goes up my team spawns in droves in the NME's rear.  This is especially helpful on Harvsest where the MEC base is cap-able.  Then I can whip out the C4 and take out my opposites resources.  After I cap their base I hope in THEIR AA vehicle and guard it against helo re-caps.  Why is this:
1.  Improbable?
2.  Not team-friendly?



Viper, yeah, I suppose if the ROE are clearly stated in the server splash screen while you join or in in-game messages that's one thing.  If you're booted unceremonisly, that's another.  Regardless, it still seems an arbitrary policy to me.  As, you stated, there are situations where it makes more sense and some where it makes less.  If I've got a crack team, all organized into squads who are obeying orders OR have enough situational awareness to cap flags where needed and realize we're losing them elsewhere, I'll sit back in seclusion and devote 100% of my time to assisting them do THEIR job.    If not....I'm getting in a vehicle - especially if there are vehicles sitting unused, OR I've invaded the enemy base and there are now a SURPLUS Of vehicles.   After all, one vehicle in my hands is one less in THEIR hands.


Oh, and to the anonymouse negative karma dropper who said    "     stat whore, fuck you "  you obviously don't get the gist of trying to promote more teamwork.  Sounds like the same breed who kneejerk kicks under false assumptions.

Last edited by TF501|Slee (2006-06-16 05:43:41)

TF501|Slee wrote:

Seriously, you never spot enemies while driving or running for your teammates?

Wow, I knew I was in the minority, but that's pretty sad.  I'm constantly spotting tanks and choppers as I drive by (don't usually have the proper equipment to engage them)  I probably spot more enemies for my teammates as a regular squaddy than most commanders do.  Helps us win as a team all the quicker. 

As for capping spawn points for my team, yeah, it's absolutely essential sometimes.  If my team persists in going "down the throat" for 10 minutes and gets nowhere, it behooves me to hop in an FAV and head around to the back to cap a new spawn.  It never fails, as soon as that flag goes up my team spawns in droves in the NME's rear.  This is especially helpful on Harvsest where the MEC base is cap-able.  Then I can whip out the C4 and take out my opposites resources.  After I cap their base I hope in THEIR AA vehicle and guard it against helo re-caps.  Why is this:
1.  Improbable?
2.  Not team-friendly?



Viper, yeah, I suppose if the ROE are clearly stated in the server splash screen while you join or in in-game messages that's one thing.  If you're booted unceremonisly, that's another.  Regardless, it still seems an arbitrary policy to me.  As, you stated, there are situations where it makes more sense and some where it makes less.  If I've got a crack team, all organized into squads who are obeying orders OR have enough situational awareness to cap flags where needed and realize we're losing them elsewhere, I'll sit back in seclusion and devote 100% of my time to assisting them do THEIR job.    If not....I'm getting in a vehicle - especially if there are vehicles sitting unused, OR I've invaded the enemy base and there are now a SURPLUS Of vehicles.   After all, one vehicle in my hands is one less in THEIR hands.

Agreed

i would only be a combat commander when my team is losing... which never happens a lot when im commander

You can command better driving a vehicle, killing things, avoiding death, capping flags then a commander whos dedicated to watching the battlefield?

What happens when you die, oh right, 15 seconds of having no UAV/Arty/Scan/Supply drops ect ect.

Stop fooling yourself, you're not commanding if you're out in the field.

Cbass wrote:

Commanders shouldn't fight. A good commander will run a sat scan everytime it's available to keep constant track of every enemy on the battlefield. Also keep track of his squads and spot enemy's for them. If a commander is flying hes not going to see he just sent his infantry squad into the enemy flag where 2 tanks and an APC are waiting. It's also a good idea to run a UAV for a squad entering a flag. I guess a commander can do his job and fight, but there is no way a fighting commander can do his job to it's fullest. A dead commander is a useless commander.

Well said.  If you're commander and capping flags and fighting, it sounds like you're using the commander assets for your own benefit instead of your team's.  I'd vote yes for kick.

fierce wrote:

Everything has said why a commander shouldn't be sit in a vehicle, especially tank. If i get killed by a non-spotted enemy and see the commander messing around in a tank, i'll be the first who teamkills the commander, make the vehicle available for someone who can actually use it proper and help the team and force the commander to do his job!

If you see me in any kind of vehicle, it's just for defend for something e.g. someone trying to blow up commander assets or stealing empty armor, a quick ride to a flag etc. After the job is done the vehicle will given to someone who uses and deserves it (e.g. an engineer for armor).

So, it's OK for you command from a vehicle sometimes, but you'll TK if someone else does it?  Never said I'd sit in the vehicle and do nothing.  That would be just as silly as if I were not commanding and doing nothing in a vehilce.  If I'm in a vehicle, it's for a purpose - usually that of going from point A to point B.

PRiMACORD wrote:

You can command better driving a vehicle, killing things, avoiding death, capping flags then a commander whos dedicated to watching the battlefield?

Never said I could command BETTER - simply that I could do it effectively.   Obviously my complete and undivided attention would make me a better commander.  Once again, if my team is able to respond to commands and has decent situational awareness, as well as having enough team members period then I'm content to sit back and make their job easier.   This works well in a full 64-man server.  In a non-full server or a much smaller one.... not so well.  Heh, I can imagine some of the matches we've had if the commander took himself out of play.  8 on 8 is.... well, it's absolutely necessary everyone is doing SOMEthing.


Given this situation, can you say you'd rather not command from a vehicle?
- Your team is losing
- Your team numbers are low
- There is no commander, and your requests for SOMEONE to take command have fallen on deaf ears

Do you:
A.  Take command and sit back in a bunker somewhere?
B.  Take command and try to cap spawn points with your small team
C.  Don't take command and your team continue to lose  (but hey, you might get some good kills - never forget that)

I guess it comes down to a dedication to the team for me.  If you look up my stats you'll see some pretty crappy K : D but some decent teamwork.  That's they way I play.

Last edited by TF501|Slee (2006-06-16 07:32:10)

In Slee's defense I must say that some of the replys to this thread are way off the mark, but in their defense, perhaps a little background would be in order.

rant

Slee and I and a couple of others will often go to the lesser of the teams to try and at least have a challenging round, This means that we will usually be on the opposing team to the server Clan or admins. Unfortunately we get to meet quite a few asshats along the way.

As a general rule IMO the no commanding in vehicles is pure crap. The operative word here is GENERAL RULE.

If both teams have it 'together' then by all means, commanders should do nothing but command.

I agree wholeheartedly with this philosophy.

However,

When my squad needs re-supply and the response is 'There is no commander on your team' after 10 minutes then what to do?

Go back to the main spawn and lay down and die ? 

No, because that is what the Baseraping Assclown Pointwhores on the other team most certainly do want.

Personally, I don't like to command, but I will do it, FTW, especially if NO ONE ELSE WILL, and If I happen to be in an AA vehicle at the time then I'm not going to give it to the NME, just because the admins on the other team don't like it.

We are talking AA vehicles here, not Tanks.

IMO an AA vehicle is a defensive system, trying to go head to head with a Tank or AT Soldier is folly.
I would much rather see an AA vehicle in the commander's hands rather than with someone who will use it to try and cap flags in it  (pure suicide against an organized resistance)

BTW, I don't pretend to be the best player out there, but I do believe that applying a little RL military doctrine can go a long way to increase the fun in it.

/rant

flame on.

If you have a good team it's better to stay back and devote all your time on commanding. Even when driving your scan comes half a minute later than it used to be, sometimes surprisingly notice enemy's at a critical place. (example airfield at wake)

Commander in transport vehicle is oke for me. In tank only on rare occasions cause when you sit in it, a team member can't use it. Never in plane or attack chopper. I once had the commander as gunner, I was lining him up  to kill 5 infantry but he was commanding. All he did was being annoying and not shooting so I had to try and sweep these guys with my missiles (had 3 of the 5 *G*)

Sometimes it's oke to help as commander, especially when there are not many players, but then you don't have to forget you are commander.

Sometimes your team is SO noobish, they just run from the usmc spawnpoint to hotel to get killed and loop over again. On those times, when resigning seems a better option actually, I take a transport and go cap suburb or something like that.

Conclusion: At certain moments, a commander can use vehicles but please stick to transports and please command. Nothing is more annoying than a commander who doesn't even place a UAV. Try to stay hidden and command, for example: be sniper, place 2 claymores at the flag and hide where you can shoot enemy's at that flag. Command till you notice an enemy at your flag and no team mates around. Snipe him and continue commanding.

Last edited by De_Jappe (2006-06-16 07:49:07)

I usually command from a transport.  This allows me to be somewhat mobile less likely to be hit by artillery.
I do admit that the moment or two that it takes me to get repositioned each time does take away from commanding effectiveness, but it is necessary for staying alive.  An alive commander is more effective then a dead one. Being is a transport also gets me that transport time towards the expert badge.
As for taking flags, if one is close and no one is I will try to engage the adversary and save it, only if a tank is nearby.  Otherwise, I send in a squad in possible.

fierce wrote:

TF501|Slee wrote:

So, it's OK for you command from a vehicle sometimes, but you'll TK if someone else does it?  Never said I'd sit in the vehicle and do nothing.  That would be just as silly as if I were not commanding and doing nothing in a vehilce.  If I'm in a vehicle, it's for a purpose - usually that of going from point A to point B.

And now read my statement again, i don't know how long you take to kill someone, but i don't need minutes for this if anything seconds...

I read your statement again.  By definition of what you said you should be banned from a server for commanding from a vehicle.  (you were in a vehicle while a commander - I know, circular definition, but....)

My point is servers that have such rules can only enforce them in a hit or miss fashion.  I'm sure if they could they'd auto-kick you as soon got in that vehicle.  They'd much rather you sit in a bunker and do nothing but look at the command map. (as evidenced by many opinions expressed here too)  I see now why on that particular server no one had jumped to command for such a long time.  It was obvious if you did you'd be doing nothing but that.  It would be nice if there were larger maps and more players where acting as a full-time commander really paid off in terms of goals achieved and troops moved, etc. 

Regarding commanding from a jet or chopper - I couldn't agree more with everyone.  While FAVs, jeeps and sometimes tanks (depends on the map and the # of spawns capped) are a dime a dozen, taking a valuable/scarce chopper is robbing your team of a valuable resource.  It's also a heck of lot more difficult to pilot an air vehicle with a joystick and toggle back to commander screen.  Maybe others who fly a heck of a lot better than me can do it, but I never could. 


Thanks to everyone who chimed in with something constructive to say.  I know this started out as me venting (and it felt good to do it) but I certainly learned a lot in the process.  The anonymous negative karma was especially entertaining!