Poll

Your stance on mines.

The're great, Mine spamming has never been easier.35%35% - 32
They should be fixed, smart and invulnerable don't mix.29%29% - 26
Don't really care.34%34% - 31
Total: 89
the_ubernoob_
Member
+8|6713
We all remember the old mines, nine times out of ten some noob would spawn out of nowhere and TK themselves on your claymores.  AT mines would simply be shot and destroyed by enemy tanks.  EA attempted to fix this by making mines both smart and invulnerable.

But now a new problem appears, Snipers running around planting claymores everywhere because they guarantee a free kill because, 1: they can't be tripped by friendlies and; 2: the enemy can't do anything to disable the claymores (unless an engineer happens to spawn behind the claymore...and we know that will never happen).

The same problem occurs with AT mines.  ENgineers place mine at every to prevent enemy vehicles from getting near a base.

It has gotten to the point where you can't take 3 steps in the streets of Karkand, the stairwell of the TV station, the narrow corridors of Iron Gator, or the halls of the Palace on Warlord, without being killed by a claymore that you can't pass.


The error of EA's ways is that they attempted to fix both mines with the same solution.  This is how I believe that the mines should be fixed in the next patch (EA is probably working on a new one to fix all the bugs they added to the server list.)

CLAYMORES
Being an area of effect weapon that triggers whenever something moves infront of it, this mine caused the most TK's.  These mines should remain smart in order to prevent noobs from always detonating them, however, these mines should once again be destructable by grenades in order to allow an observant squad to identify and neutralize the mine and proceed forward.

AT MINES
AT mines are a different story, most armored vehicles do explosion damage and could easily destroy a mine.  Therefore AT mines should retain their invulnerablity to force armor drivers to go arround or disable the mines with a wrench.  Since the AT mine can only damage a vehicle that touches it directly, they are comparatively easier to avoid than claymores and should lose their smart traits (can TK friendlies if you place them poorly).

These are my thoughts....let the flame war begin....

Last edited by the_ubernoob_ (2006-05-25 15:18:59)

genius_man16
Platinum Star whore
+365|6648|Middle of nowhere
Well, i can't say much about the new patch as i haven't played since it came out, but i guess i'll say i agree with your Claymore changes and disagree with the AT mine changes.  The AT mine has never really been a problem, and can be disabled if your an Engineer (which you should be... HINT, HINT, YOU FREAKIN NOOBS!!)

But again, i can't say my feelings on how the new patch changed gameplay, as i haven't been on since it came out
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|6813|Reykjavík, Iceland.
Make them destroyable, but make them harder to spot. Please don't kill the smartness! I've had 50% less TK's since 1.2.
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6637

Mines are easily cleared by Engineers.  I'm an engineer tanker.  Enough said.

Claymores are fine the way they are.  Just slow down/prone, instead of rushing to flags.

Last edited by Ilocano (2006-05-25 15:32:51)

DaReJa
BF2s US Server Admin
+257|6596|Los Angeles, California, US.

the_ubernoob_ wrote:

2: the enemy can't do anything to disable the claymores (unless an engineer happens to spawn behind the claymore...and we know that will never happen).
Why Spawn Behind?

Go Prone, And slowly sneak up on it....
Battlelog: DaReJa
MyBFi/BF3i Admin

AKA DanielRJ
GameSurge IRC Network, Support Agent and Staff
Phuzion IRC Network, Support Director and Operator
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6659|Tampa Bay Florida
There's no excuse for getting killed by a land mine.  ESPECIALLY if you're Engineer.  They're fine the way they are. 

They only destroy vehicles, you do know that, right?  It only takes a couple of seconds of wrenching to disable them, too.
BallisticallyYours
Member
+23|6600|Chicago, IL
I think claymores should blow no matter what team your on, I stupidly walk in front of them even after I see the red skull, I think the team kill aspect needs to be removed, it was my fault after all. Maybe then I will slow down and get my head out of my arse.
the_ubernoob_
Member
+8|6713
"going prone and sneaking up on the claymore"
too bad you can't do that in a hallway or stairwell when there are walls in your way.

The problem with AT mines is small enough that no fix is really needed.  It only becomes apparent when an enemy is backed into a corner and use the mines in combiniation with anti-infantry (aniti-engineer)  fire to prevent enemy vehicles from entering a base while still allowing friendlies to leave at their leisure.

Last edited by the_ubernoob_ (2006-05-25 15:44:29)

The_Movielife
Member
+2|6521|Lincolnshire, UK

Spearhead wrote:

There's no excuse for getting killed by a land mine.  ESPECIALLY if you're Engineer.  They're fine the way they are. 

They only destroy vehicles, you do know that, right?  It only takes a couple of seconds of wrenching to disable them, too.
i agree
DaReJa
BF2s US Server Admin
+257|6596|Los Angeles, California, US.

the_ubernoob_ wrote:

"going prone and sneaking up on the claymore"
too bad you can't do that in a hallway or stairwell when there are walls in your way.
No matter what direction your facing, The Claymore does not blow up if you go Prone and Sneak up on it, I've Disarmed Thousands of Claymores, And Mines. And you really need to get Points for that. Also has nothing to do with your Surroundings, Just Prone and Sneak up.
Battlelog: DaReJa
MyBFi/BF3i Admin

AKA DanielRJ
GameSurge IRC Network, Support Agent and Staff
Phuzion IRC Network, Support Director and Operator
HeavyMetalDave
Metal Godz
+107|6627|California
YOU ASK YOU GET!

In the beginning..... *TK* *TK* *TK* punish punish punish

$%@#&% Look where you're going!!!!

It was insane, really.

Mines and Clays are fine the way they are, just keep your eyes open for enemy ones.
Be engy and pick them up, I always turn enemy mines into my mines. Right when they leave, tee hee.
One point, if you park over friendly mine and exit, you go BOOM. And if you stand in front of Clay and enemy runs by, you go BYE BYE.

I like it the way it is.
BMAsRevenge
Member
+3|6574
AT Mines - Are fine the way they are.

C4 - Is fine the way it is except Although I agree you shouldn't be able to throw them you should be able to toss them slightly. I don't know how many times I have tried to toss them over a small object only to have it stick on the same side I'm on.

Claymores - Should be a little destructable "Maybe nades only?" or at least wrench-able from a safer distance. Its almost impossible to wrench them when they are used in combo with an enemy watching them at the same time like on a stairway.
MurPHy
Member
+9|6541|West Deptford, NJ

the_ubernoob_ wrote:

"going prone and sneaking up on the claymore"
too bad you can't do that in a hallway or stairwell when there are walls in your way.

The problem with AT mines is small enough that no fix is really needed.  It only becomes apparent when an enemy is backed into a corner and use the mines in combiniation with anti-infantry (aniti-engineer)  fire to prevent enemy vehicles from entering a base while still allowing friendlies to leave at their leisure.
That's how you're supposed to use mines. Lay them down, and have overlapping fields of fire covering the minefield. Infantry cannot pass. Armor can pass, unless the defending infantry also have anti-tank guns/rockets, at which point you either:

A. Send in overwhelming force, taking heavy casualties (Soviet way of war)

or,

B. Send in your planes to bomb the piss out of the entrenched enemy, stun them, and allow your combined armor and infantry to advance. This is the WWII way of doing it. Modern armies have explosives "chains" that are attached to rockets, which fire and spread a long length of explosive along the minefield. When detonated, any nearby mines also detonate, effectively creating a safe passage through the minefield. This was used successfully by the US Expeditionary force during the first Gulf War.
the_ubernoob_
Member
+8|6713
I know thats how mines are supposed to be used defensively, but with the Mine's new smart traits, the barrier acts only one way.  The mines are simply spammed at entrances instead of placed in a way that makes it difficult to enter while comparatively easier to leave.

The problem with AT mines is small and can be left alone.  Claymores on the other hand are overpowered (the sneak up approach fails to explain how claymores I plant behind unsuspecting stationary prone enemies detonate without them moving an inch)
Zeon.
l33t sp33k Specialist
+159|6527|Behind j00OMFG HAX, Bristol UK
That's a good point, maybe Claymores could be shot out by enemy fire at a distance because it will blow as normal?

AT mines are fine in my oppinion

Last edited by Zeon. (2006-05-26 14:16:05)

polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|6758|Singapore

Tiger stance definitely.
Aardcore
Member
+60|6683|USA, Arizona
Pre BF2 1.2 experience has TRAUMATIZED me on land mine experiences. Though I feel confident most servers use the settings where mines WON'T TK you, I still look at those redskull symbols, the black circles of death lying on the ground and I think "I have a 50/50 chance this server isn't set on FF and that I'll get blown up by my teammate because of his tactfulness... but damnit why here?!" likewise when I put mines down myself, where in some cases, it says I TK'd someone and then in that same instant, a punish and my score drops like what... -10 points? THat sounds about right.

Yeah, I disagree with wanting to change the mines anymore, they're fine the way they are, if you don't like the unFF setting, leave that game and find another server, I'm sure there are tons more other servers who make sure explosives still FF.

If not, just get with the program, and I mean that in the most unthreatening way possible, I'm just saying.
JimKong
Member
+31|6612|Ohio
Teammates should not be able to set off mines and 'mores. Doing so renders those kits useless. They should be destructable like in the old days though.

*What's all this spam shit? Engy has 5 at a time, Sniper has 2. What servers do you guys play on where someone gets 10 mine/claymore kills? If you don't know by now where people drop these items 90% of the time, maybe you should stop playing.

Last edited by JimKong (2006-05-26 22:27:21)

stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|6690|California

polarbearz wrote:

Tiger stance definitely.
lol.
SysTray
"Generous mods" < Thats right Systray !
+180|6791|Delaware
There is a reason claymores say "Point away from face"...they blow up; they don't care who you are. Same goes for mines, except without the face part.
polarbearz
Raiders of the Lost Bear
+-1,474|6758|Singapore

stryyker wrote:

polarbearz wrote:

Tiger stance definitely.
lol.
What. You prefer monkey or dragon?
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|6690|California

polarbearz wrote:

stryyker wrote:

polarbearz wrote:

Tiger stance definitely.
lol.
What. You prefer monkey or dragon?
i myself prefer panda stance.

i chill in the back and much on bamboo
Aardcore
Member
+60|6683|USA, Arizona

polarbearz wrote:

Tiger stance definitely.
Actually I'm way to go on that idea, definitely Tiger stance LOL
mrpoodle
Member
+2|6608
i think in the real world that AT Mines are buried in the earth so that the tanks drive over them but i do see the point you are getting at and i agree
Cheeky_Ninja06
Member
+52|6702|Cambridge, England
why not make claymores destroyable by an M95, AT mines are only destroyable by a wrench, i.e. unique to one kit, so is the M95, it also gives a nod towards the anti-material uses of the M95?

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