General Breetai
Member
+23|6556
A small guide to iron gator.

I know, I'm stating a lot of obvious things, but since I've playes iron gator for a few hours myself, I'm pretty sure, that lots of ppl don't even have a clue on the tactics of the map. So I decided to write down some thoughts on it, take it or leave it. I haven't found something like this by searching, so I hope, I'm not covering too much already stated by other.

First thing you have to understand is that iron gator is about teamplay. Considering all the other maps in SF or even in vanilla, I can't think of anyone, which requires so much of it (maybe Wake, but not to the full
extent). The first misconception is, that the seals are always in advantage. This is true if neither team
has team players on it and both teams just play the obvious tactics. If the MEC acts as a team, the odds are quite fair, maybe even a little bit in the advantage of MEC. This arises from the air superiority of the MEC, I will come to that later.

A better tactic for the MEC:
In more than 60% of the games, I've always seen the obvious tactic, MEC grabs the helicopters, fly a wide angle to end on the flight deck (to avod the Anti-Air of the Essex) with the hope of getting down a squad or at least one or two soldiers who can enter the gator. Some people go for boats and are almost every time killed by the rocket launchers from the flight deck (It must be very, very difficult to understand, that there is NO Chance of surviving in this tiny little things an assault of half a dozen decent rocket slingers. Some ppl. are ever more stupid and enter the field of fire of the essex Anti-Air Gun. Great Idea, easy targets......).

This tactic is so predictable, that it stinks. Its by far a better idea to attack the other side of the gator. Why ? Because the rocket slingers don't have an open field and it is much easier to have one or two squad leaders hidden on the upper towers, where their squads can spawn and take one flag trough sheer masses.
So, but what about the Essex Anti-Air, which will shot down the Transport Heli ? Easy enough, it is a sitting duck, and this is a mayor disadvantage. MEC has a tunguska, which can be taken to the shore and can trash this Anti-Air in no time. But even if the tunguska is destroyed (or occupied by some noobish idiot), two or three rocket slingers can do the job, if their sighting range is 100%. This can sometimes (if the seal commander is a noob) be even done by one rocket slinger alone (I had a game, where I killed someone in the Anti-Air 4 times in a row, just by shooting my rocket from the shore.).
However, there is a counter tactic to this. The seal commander can drop a box near the Anti-Air (which he should do anyway), causing a constant repair. But even with this, 2 or 3 rocket slingers should be enough to
keep the Anti-Air long enough destroyed, to allow the transport to reach the upper towers.
What about the appache ? Well, nothing about it. This is the third part or the team aspect, air superiority. First, there is a tunguska, when standing at the shore (where it should always be), the appache has always to hide behind the gator, crippling its usability by far. This can also be accomplished by manning the normals GLAs (its by FAR better to sit in such a GLA, surpressing the Appache, when MEC hasn't a flag on
the gator than dying a meaningless death in a futile attempt to enter the gator trough the boat dock.)

Since the Essex' Anti-Air should be destroyed, the HIND can either help and watch over the transport or kill the Apache trough a well placed TV Missile, since it has the advantage of height (unluckily, trough unknown reasons, most Gunners in SF don't even know how TV Missile is spelled ....). Alternatively you can rape the flight deck to make the seals loose some tickets. When you do, NEVER, NEVER give in to the temptation of standing in the air to give your gunner a better aim. This is a HIND, it is meant for rotating around a target, change your spin and vector every second, rockets are the only danger you are facing, gunfire is almost useless against the armor of a HIND.
So whats the point in having this one flag ? The point is, that the team needs only one other to even the odds (with a light favor) and two to have a mayor advantage. The HIND is almost every time in the hands to MEC (unless the MEC Commanders lets somone steal it), the Appache can be stolen, when one of the two upper flags of the gator are MEC. Having both gunships makes the MEC holding both upper flags very easy, even wreaking havok to the outer gangways. The main advantage at this point is that MEC has an uncappable base with a helicopter, while the seals can loose theirs. The second is, that MEC Special Ops can keep down the UAV with C4, while MEC can always use UAV. When not too much tickets are lost by getting the first point, MEC is clearly in the advantage.

If you liked this guide, feel free to tell me, so I might write the second part, which should cover counter tactics for the seals.
Starfleet1403
...to bodly spawn where no one has spawned before!
+66|6623|Born in West-Berlin
Nice Guide. Now I may actually stand a Chance with MECSF on Iron Gator. Thanx.
M_Harrower
Will code HTML for food
+114|6574
Good guide. But a good pilot can easily dodge the essex, and doesn't even have to if he has a good gunner.

Personally I think the teams are balanced

+1 for the work
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6681|Disaster Free Zone
The problem i find, Is at the begining of a round because of the reputation of the map many of the good people move to the seals team anyway. If the seals get a good pilot, gunner they can easily take out the tungusta and APC with TV missiles, and as it a much more manourable chopper and most of the fighting is done over the carrier (its repair area, and has lots of infantry support) the apache can basiclly determine the outcome of the map.
General Breetai
Member
+23|6556

DrunkFace wrote:

The problem i find, Is at the begining of a round because of the reputation of the map many of the good people move to the seals team anyway. If the seals get a good pilot, gunner they can easily take out the tungusta and APC with TV missiles,
IMHO this is a misconception which arises from the fact, that 9 from 10 ppl think it is under their dignity to do air defence. And it is also a mayor reason why I have written the guide, because it annoys me every time, when I see an apache being able to cross the MEC base and no one jumps in an air defence and instead prefers to be killed waiting for the next chopper.
The village holds one tunguska and two GLAs which renders the apache completely helpless behind the carrier if used properly. Prior to patch 1.2, when TV missiles had a larger range I would have agreed, since the apache could duck behind the essex and just come up  to fire its missile. But after 1.2 the range is too short to do damage from behind the Essex. Instead the Apache has to move in front, facing 4 Rockets from a tunguska and 4 from GLAs. In other words, when the three air defendants are not complete noobs, the apache is dead mead. Especially since there is also the HIND, which is just threatened by the Essex Anti-Air, which should be destroyed as fast as possible.
I agree that this is what happens very often (that the apache rules and the seals win), but it doesn't happen because the apache pilot is so good, it happens because MEC is acting stupid. It is not difficult to win against a stupid acting team. Yesterday I sat in the Essex Anti-Air for almost the full round, since nobody really attacked me. I shot down 4 Helis, three boats and numerous Paratroopers and the first point on the gator fell, when MEC had less than 100 tickets left. It wasn't difficult and I wasn't very good either. MEC simply sucked.

One last word to the "good players". I personally consider team switching players because of map reputation to be very bad players. If one wants point and victorys, one should simply take an HTML Editor and edit his stats page. (Or, when a little more gifted, analyse the server protokolls of EA). I prefer (maybe because of my age) a competition of wits and tactics, finding weak spots of other tactis and thinking against the common knowledge. Everybody can look shiny in a winning team, to hold up a losing team is something i consider good playing. I've got 13 Gold Stars now, which is surely nothing to boast with, but 2 of them were won, when going down with a losing team, and these are the ones I'm proud of.
Cbass
Kick His Ass!
+371|6695|Howell, Mi USA

M_Harrower wrote:

Good guide. But a good pilot can easily dodge the essex, and doesn't even have to if he has a good gunner.

Personally I think the teams are balanced

+1 for the work
I agree the teams are balanced. Yea MECSF has an uncap but the SeaLs can stop mec from even setting foot on the gator. (if its a good team) and also don't count out the LongBow. True it has to stay hidden behind the gator to avoid AA but that also makes it pretty much unstoppable with a good pilot and gunner (ive done it) The HIND is now in Seals turf, which means its got AT rockets up the ass, HOPEFULLY someone has manned the ESSEX AA turret, and a blood thirsty LongBow crew who is bored from hovering behind the gator. And still the HIND makes a good distraction for the rest of the MECsf to come in on a transport. Once MECsf takes a flag it's all over.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/bb53a522780eff5b30ba3252d44932cc2f5b8c4f.png
137[CSi]
Headshot Specialist
+104|6837|Woodland Hills, Ca

DrunkFace wrote:

The problem i find, Is at the begining of a round because of the reputation of the map many of the good people move to the seals team anyway. If the seals get a good pilot, gunner they can easily take out the tungusta and APC with TV missiles, and as it a much more manourable chopper and most of the fighting is done over the carrier (its repair area, and has lots of infantry support) the apache can basiclly determine the outcome of the map.
This is where you're wrong... the apache will have to hide behind the main upper deck of the essex the entire round because there is a possibility of 8 aa missles being launched at you from the mec base You have the 4 of the tunguska and the 2aa sites with unlimited ammo.

As long as all AA is occupied on the mec side of the map the apache will have no choice but to hide behind those pillars and wait for a hind or a convoy chopper to float over the ship. And even then because of your limited flight roof and the fact the hind may have a GREAT tv gunner you're in some trouble playing defense as the SEALS...

Now if some guy spawns before everyone else as MEC flies the hind over to the GATOR and snags the apache and somehow lives, the US are in for a shitty experience if the SEALS dont work together to hinder the air assault...

If you want to play it safe and take out the GATORS AA you need to fly on the opposite side of the ship almost near out of bounds and you need to get at least 300-500 feet in the air... As an experienced hind pilot approach the GATOR nose down and tilt your nose towards your home base and get ready to juice the throttle and spin back towards the flight deck incase you dont take out the essex... The apache will crash if it tries to engage you pointing its nose up at you, hopefully you will have a good tv gunner and he takes it out right away.

instead of capping the flight deck and thinking you're going to win and they will be stupid enough to try and rush the upper deck of the ship. Coordinate an assault on the bottom of the ship and pin them to the flight deck... TRUST ME!!!

it will be DEATH FROM ABOVE and you will quickly milk all of their tickets no problem.
stryyker
bad touch
+1,682|6720|California

cap all bases but deck, and then rotate kill with the hind. works 121% of the time
Mortifed_Kangaroo
Member
+4|6592|Sydney Australia
I found it annoying when the removed the grappling hook from that map it was the perfect way of getting on the carrier i think the should put it back.
TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|6673|Colorado
The seals & the mec special forces are the least played of all my sides, & thats for one reason, the maps suck.

Iron gator is a maze even if the mec make it on the boat making for a slaughterfest. Took me a while to learn it.

Devils perch & leviathan are both night maps & not very good because of that imo. If we only could switch it to daytime I think the maps would rule. The night vision needs an upgrade.

Thanks for the hints, if I ever decide too play iron gator again I'll keep it in mind.
Buzerk1
Member
+44|6837
One tactic that also works... fill the transport chopper have it go very high over the deck (it can't be shot by the Essex) and jump down to the deck. Open your parachute at the last second, run for cover and then pick a flag as all SEALS are on the lower deck trying to stop "enemy boat spotted".

Last edited by Buzerk1 (2006-05-17 20:21:30)

DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6681|Disaster Free Zone

137[CSi] wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

The problem i find, Is at the begining of a round because of the reputation of the map many of the good people move to the seals team anyway. If the seals get a good pilot, gunner they can easily take out the tungusta and APC with TV missiles, and as it a much more manourable chopper and most of the fighting is done over the carrier (its repair area, and has lots of infantry support) the apache can basiclly determine the outcome of the map.
This is where you're wrong... the apache will have to hide behind the main upper deck of the essex the entire round because there is a possibility of 8 aa missles being launched at you from the mec base You have the 4 of the tunguska and the 2aa sites with unlimited ammo.

As long as all AA is occupied on the mec side of the map the apache will have no choice but to hide behind those pillars and wait for a hind or a convoy chopper to float over the ship. And even then because of your limited flight roof and the fact the hind may have a GREAT tv gunner you're in some trouble playing defense as the SEALS...
If the TV gunner is good the pilot can just fly to front side of the gator, flare as soon as you here tone (giving you a second or 2). line the gunner up and he shoots, as soon as he fire the pilot can move back to the cover of the gator, if he is hit (and it wont be by much if done properly) he is so close to the repair area he can get down to 1 bar health and still survive. Then the gunner just has to direct the missile into the tungusta, leaving the IGLA's which further away then the tungusta can be.
oberst_enzian
Member
+234|6743|melb.au
Personally, despite the fact that it kills my fps, i love the gator. Taking it as MEC is much more rewarding than winning on most other maps. Given the amount of whining about it though, a guide is certainly in order. gw
Bratwurstschnecke
Member
+77|6677|respawn screen
Good guide but dont forget, there is an APC. When I play MECSF I try to get the APC and go for the AntiAir (few shots plus one rocket) and the ATs on the flight deck. I got my ARMOUR SPECIALIST RIBBON that way.

BTW on Iron Gator somehow nobody wants to play Commander (because of arty?).
KingLou
Banned
+79|6624|Las Vegas
My personal favorite tactic in Iron Gator is to not play it.  That map just bugs me........even though when I'm in a chopper I usually dominate the round.

KiL
137[CSi]
Headshot Specialist
+104|6837|Woodland Hills, Ca

DrunkFace wrote:

137[CSi] wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

The problem i find, Is at the begining of a round because of the reputation of the map many of the good people move to the seals team anyway. If the seals get a good pilot, gunner they can easily take out the tungusta and APC with TV missiles, and as it a much more manourable chopper and most of the fighting is done over the carrier (its repair area, and has lots of infantry support) the apache can basiclly determine the outcome of the map.
This is where you're wrong... the apache will have to hide behind the main upper deck of the essex the entire round because there is a possibility of 8 aa missles being launched at you from the mec base You have the 4 of the tunguska and the 2aa sites with unlimited ammo.

As long as all AA is occupied on the mec side of the map the apache will have no choice but to hide behind those pillars and wait for a hind or a convoy chopper to float over the ship. And even then because of your limited flight roof and the fact the hind may have a GREAT tv gunner you're in some trouble playing defense as the SEALS...
If the TV gunner is good the pilot can just fly to front side of the gator, flare as soon as you here tone (giving you a second or 2). line the gunner up and he shoots, as soon as he fire the pilot can move back to the cover of the gator, if he is hit (and it wont be by much if done properly) he is so close to the repair area he can get down to 1 bar health and still survive. Then the gunner just has to direct the missile into the tungusta, leaving the IGLA's which further away then the tungusta can be.
As a helicopter pilot in an ONLINE match, I would never rely on my gunner to keep me afloat, because most of the time you dont have a gunner, 2 the gunner is never in your squad, 3 if they are in the gunner seat and you position them for the kodak moment tv shot they may just think the machine gun on the chopper has enough power to take out the essex cannon.

Which it doesnt. This is why I never rely on my gunner, even if I know them I know they miss.
DSRTurtle
Member
+56|6686

oberst_enzian wrote:

Personally, despite the fact that it kills my fps, i love the gator. Taking it as MEC is much more rewarding than winning on most other maps. Given the amount of whining about it though, a guide is certainly in order. gw
What do you have for a video card, and what drivers do you have?

I had a big problem with fps until I got the 6.3 catalyst drivers for my ATI 9600XT.

Once I got the 6.3 drivers. I found I was able to play Iron Gator without a problem.  It's a lot of fun now that I don't have FPS issues.

Last edited by DSRTurtle (2006-05-21 14:46:05)

VeNg3nCe^
¦Tactics Øver Principles¦
+314|6706|Antarctica
Good guide, I've been doing similar things for quite some time now.  MEC SF rules on Iron Gator
ShadowdogKGB
Member
+6|6845
Very good plan indeed.

Iron Gator is like the all time noob gaylord fucktard map of all time. All these little stupid fucks hopping in a jetski or boat just to get blown the hell up halfway there. Or better yet the mentally disturbed idiots who insist they must stay on the island and snipe away yet kill nothing.  Or the gaggle of chopper whores pissing and bitching at each other at the heli pad blowing each other up and all that gay ass crap.

Nope..I'll stay away from Iron Gator. Except for FW Gauntlet server sometimes.
c0rce
Member
+11|6569
I've had loads of people sit in the tunguska on the mec island, but no one uses igla's. In the Apache, you can pop up behind the essex towers and shoot a tv missile from there that can reach the island shore anyway. There's no need to go high or in front of the essex, as the tunguska can't hit you. With a good gunner you can dispirit the tunguska driver after 2 or 3 kills, leaving you free to own the top of the carrier.

Even if you don't have a good gunner you can still beat up on the hind and keep the essex free of mec as long as the hind doesnt have an excellent gunner. The APC is no good, in the water even a half decent chopper gunner can tv missile it, in fact with a tunguska sitting out there you can pop up, move towards the apc, flare, kill apc and return without dying.

As someone said before, if you have a good apache crew the mecs are screwed, even if they have several good players carrying out your plan (with is rare on publics) they can still be matched by a good heli crew, I know because I have been in all the situations I mentioned above, both in the tunguska and in the apache.

In fact to ruin the plan all you need is one or two anti tanks to spot where the tunguska fire is coming from and rocket him and that very important part of the tactic is made useless.

Last edited by c0rce (2006-05-24 03:19:51)

_j5689_
Dreads & Bergers
+364|6717|Riva, MD
People have trouble with it because it lags more than any other map.
c0rce
Member
+11|6569
A 64 player iron gator destroys my machine and I have 2 gigs of RAM, a 7800GTX heavily oced and a 3500+. Servers should cap it at 32 players.
DSRTurtle
Member
+56|6686
Since I updated to 1.22 and the ATI Catalyst 6.3 drivers I've never experienced in lag in any part of the map with a full 64 player server.  Prior to that time I would lag so bad inside the carrier that I would leave and not play that map in any server when it came up in rotation.

Now my best Seals and MECSF scores are on that map.

I have a athlon xp 2400+, 1GB Ram, ATI 9600XT 256MB, and SB Audigy Platinum Card.

Old system I know, but it works just fine on all maps.

Last edited by DSRTurtle (2006-05-24 03:55:44)

General Breetai
Member
+23|6556

c0rce wrote:

A 64 player iron gator destroys my machine and I have 2 gigs of RAM, a 7800GTX heavily oced and a 3500+. Servers should cap it at 32 players.
I've got a very similar configuration and its absolutely smooth going. I use an AthonX2 3800+ (in fact one core is slower than yours), 2GB Ram and an Asus 7800GTX Top and no problems at all on any map. Most people suffer Ram Problems on Iron Gator because of the big textures, but since you got 2, you shouldn't have any problem with that. You must have a configuration problem, maybe the overclocking wasn't such da good idea, memory error are often catched by error correction, but can reduce the speed of a card dramatically. In fact I've even downclocked mine to 456 Mhz, to reduce the heat buildup. Since the 7800GTX is so overpowered this is absolutely no problem, in fact if you are not a robot, you won't even really notice the difference between 50 or 53 frames. At least, I don't.
General Breetai
Member
+23|6556

c0rce wrote:

I've had loads of people sit in the tunguska on the mec island, but no one uses igla's. In the Apache, you can pop up behind the essex towers and shoot a tv missile from there that can reach the island shore anyway. There's no need to go high or in front of the essex, as the tunguska can't hit you. With a good gunner you can dispirit the tunguska driver after 2 or 3 kills, leaving you free to own the top of the carrier.
IMHO this is wrong for several reasons. The first is, that the distance is too big, your TV Missile won't hit from behind the carrier. Ok, I can't prove that here, all I can give is my personal experience, that I was never hit in this tunguska from the apache, unless it was able to reach the villiage due to the fact, that nobody was sitting in the GLAs. Next thing is, I'm in a tunguska, I can move, I can hide and I see you, when you pop up from behind the carrier (I can even hear it). I will fire, find a hideaway and we will start over. Rocket slingers are just jokes, its not difficult to dodge a missile from more than 200 meters away with the slinger unable to see me, if they will dodge my bullets is another question.  And the third thing is, even if you kill me 5 times (what I doubt) I will come again. And again. And again. Because I play for my team to win and if I manage to distract you from the other two helis thats it for me. I've done my job. When you are unable to shoot down the transport, thats all what I'm in for.

Last thing, to win this map in the apache alone is complete nonsense. Period. It all depends on the other team. When they suck (and they suck often, since most ppl. are even stupid enough to use boats, we discussed that), it is easy to shine. But have 5 or 6 decent players in the other team (and not a horde of noobs taking the choppers), you get your ass whipped, because you are always in the disadvantage of fighting off an enemy HIND (who is not su much of a difference to the Apache, especially in case of TV Rockets) and 3 Air Defence while you got nothing. Don't make the mistake to consider someone (or yourself) to be very good or dominating unless you know how good the other team is. As stated above, I consider ppl. who own in a loosing team to be the real pros, raping a sucking team is something everybody can do.

Try this, if you don't believe me: Look for an iron gator 24/7 server and search one, where the Seals loose big time. Join, take the appache and try your skills. You might get a surprise.

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