BF2S Forums Blackhawk minigun, does no damage at all?! WTFF?!

okies did some digging into this as it intruiged me

points of intrest for the minigun [HMG_M134] ( which was done by the EA/DIce programmer called fli )

RPM =900
ObjectTemplate.velocity 500
ObjectTemplate.heatAddWhenFire 0.01
ObjectTemplate.coolDownPerSec 0.4
ObjectTemplate.overheatPenalty 3

[they took the next bit out by making the force 0]
                              ObjectTemplate.detonation.explosionMaterial 40
                              ObjectTemplate.detonation.explosionRadius 0.25
                              ObjectTemplate.detonation.explosionForce 0
                              ObjectTemplate.detonation.explosionDamage 200

ObjectTemplate.minDamage 1
ObjectTemplate.damage 60


ObjectTemplate.weaponHud.deviationFactor 5
ObjectTemplate.weaponHud.maxVisualDeviation 18
ObjectTemplate.weaponHud.minVisualDeviation 2



Comparing it with a .50 cal from a USMC LJeep
ObjectTemplate.velocity 500
ObjectTemplate.heatAddWhenFire 0.02
ObjectTemplate.coolDownPerSec 0.4
ObjectTemplate.overheatPenalty 2

ObjectTemplate.tracerInterval 3
ObjectTemplate.tracerConvergeDistance 50
ObjectTemplate.minDamage 0.2
ObjectTemplate.damage 50

ObjectTemplate.deviation.minDev 0.25


===============

Basically the bullet speed is the same and the dmg of the minigun is +10 more than the .50 cal - oh and the .50 over heats quicker.....

but  - theres two areas which mention deviation - note that there not the same threads as well i couldnt find the matching ones (not there)

but basically the Minigun has a deviation off target of upto 5 every round fired - whereas the .50 has a minimum deviation of 0.25 ... basically what i read from that is that u miss morewith the minigun....



Oh and a comparison between the BH and a US heavy jeep ?


BH

ObjectTemplate.createComponent Armor
ObjectTemplate.armor.maxHitPoints 1000
ObjectTemplate.armor.hitPoints 1000
ObjectTemplate.armor.defaultMaterial 31

wreck hitpoints 500
hitpoints 1000
armour6 helecopter



JEEP

ObjectTemplate.createComponent Armor
ObjectTemplate.armor.maxHitPoints 1000
ObjectTemplate.armor.hitPoints 1000
ObjectTemplate.armor.defaultMaterial 71

wreck hitpoints 1000
hitpoints 1000
blast_sensitivity_softobject



PROJECTILE            BH         JEEP

small arms             -0.05       - 1
.50                        -0.2         - 0.5
minigun                 -0.05        - 0.05
shotgun                 -0.05        - 1
25mm                   -0.5          - 0.04
tank                      -1.5          - 1


Minigun vs human (non armour) - 1
.50 cal vs human (non armour) - 0.5



So to conclude that mess of stuff up there - the mini gun is less accurate than the 50 cal
and does less damage to humans - (suuuuuuure thats what it was designed for???)
the BH has the same armour count as a heavy jeep but the material is different
the BH takes less damage from small arms , .50 cal and shotgun than the JEEP ...BUt takes more damage from an APC cannon and a Tank  (why??)

so there we have it - choose a jeep over a blackhawk - it has a better troop killing gun and is more likely to survive a tank hit .

Last edited by ViP.ShooTa (2006-04-27 00:59:10)

Blackhawk
Blackhawk

Mission
Provide air assault, general support, aeromedical evacuation, command and control and special operations support to combat and stability and support operations.

Entered Army Service
1979

Description and Specifications
The UH 60 Black Hawk is a utility tactical transport helicopter that replaces the UH-1 "Huey". The versatile Black Hawk has enhanced the overall mobility of The Army, due to dramatic improvements in troop capacity and cargo lift capability, and will serve as The Army's utility helicopter in the Objective Force. On the asymmetric battlefield, it provides the commander the agility to get to the fight quicker and to mass effects throughout the battlespace across the full spectrum of conflict. An entire 11-person, fully-equipped infantry squad can be lifted in a single Black Hawk, transported faster than in predecessor systems, in most weather conditions. The Black Hawk can reposition a 105 mm Howitzer, its crew of six, and lift up to 30 rounds of ammunition in a single lift. The aircraft's critical components and systems are armored or redundant, and its airframe is designed to progressively crush on impact to protect the crew and passengers.


The UH-60 was made to fly soldiers into combat. BLACK HAWK has built-in tolerance to small arms fire and most medium-caliber high-explosive projectiles. Plus specifically designed airframe and landing gear features, for a high degree of battlefield survivability. Not to mention ballistically hardened flight controls. Redundant electrical and hydraulic systems. A self-sealing, crash-resistant fuel system. And energy-absorbing landing gear and crew seats.

Last edited by ViP.ShooTa (2006-04-27 07:40:38)

The answer is pretty simple - ammo. Give the BH guns back their old status but also give them a limited supply of ammo that, like the attack chopper, can't be resupplied from inside the aircraft. That way whilst you can cause havoc with the minigun you will need to fly all the way back to base and rearm thus preventing the BH from shredding those poor MEC bastards on Mashtuur and indeed preventing the BH being of much use if you lose your landing pads...

I have a few things to add to this

Why does everyone insist on flying any transport chopper so damn low?? It really bugs the crap out of me. The only way to not get shot down in a transport is to go up about 300m. Every time I jump in one with a piolot they are flying 10m off the ground and we get shot down in seconds (especially on wake.) When I get a squad going I fly upwards on the chopper to about 200m up before I move and everyone bales out!

My method is much more effective for various reasons (using wake as an example.) Fly directly straight up from the carrier because jets are usually diving towards the carrier there to take out people waiting on it. Try it you will get shot down much less!!!!! Next start moving slowly until you get to about 300m and you can fly wherever you want to on the map without having to worry about getting shot down from the ground. I also noticed that jets are less likely to shoot you down the higher up you are (unless they really have a hard on for killing you.)

Flares don't do shit, miniguns don't do shit, and you are slow and outgunned. DON'T FLY SO FRIGGIN LOW UNLESS YOU LIKE GETTING KILLED.

You know, I don't know what the problem is.
I can't not kill people with transport chopper miniguns. Seriously. I raped like 30 people per round with the MEC and PLA chopper guns if I was in chopper whole round, and at least 20 with the BH guns.

the BH sucks, its guns are WAY too weak so EA if you read this

MAKE THE CHAINGUNS STRONGER!

please.

MurPHy wrote:

They should load them up with the amount of ammo the Army does, that way it'd be realistic. So if you lay on the trigger, you're out of ammo very quick. And get rid of the overheating on that gun, you'll run out of ammo before overheating ever becomes an issue.

One problem with that:  as long as you had a support in the BH, you'd never run out of ammo, the gun would never overheat, and the support would get tons of points.

kilroy0097 wrote:

Rizen_Ji wrote:

Rizen_Ji wrote:

i think they did it for balance. and they couldn't up the power on the PLA and MEC transports because, that very same gun is mounted on the FAV's, DPV's, and on top of the tanks. Meaning they would up the power on those guns too, making it so that you'd have a bunch of n00bs going around one manning transports and pwning entire bases. so they only had the option of nerfing the minigun, since the Blackhawk was the only vehicle to use that weapon....

so stfu, cry about how you can't go in a blackhawk and pwn everything in site. they did it for B A L A N C E.

Think about what I said kilroy...

I understand where you are coming from and I do believe they can still make an exception for the MGs on the helicopters. Due to their usage as flying platforms the ability to hit infantry accurately while in flight is much less than a stationary or slow moving FAV/Humvee,Vodnik etc.  Because of this highly inaccurate fire and also due to the rather large target that the Transport helicopters present I believe that upping the damg. on those specific MG will not unbalance the game but instead make transport choppers more used as the platforms they should be used for which is infantry transport and, and infantry ground fire support while taking areas. Other wise why even have the MGs on the heli? Honestly at this point you could remove them and they would be used in basically the same way.

No offense, but I hate this argument.

The Blackhawk can be used for transport, as there are more seats INSIDE the damned thing than how many people can hang on to the outside. Just take a peek into one and count the seats, and then plus that onto the amount of people who already are on the sides.

The Blackhawk in real life is used for transport, but in the military it is also used as a GUNSHIP that provides fire support for those it is dropping off or picking up. The reason there are miniguns on it is to defend the thing from attacking hostiles while engaging in pickups and drop-offs. Honestly, would you rather hang there over an unsafe LZ waiting for fire support, or would you rather mow them down yourself and just get the damned operation over with. I agree, it was at once TOO powerful, but I think it's general imbecility how weak it is now. I literally only have four confirmed minigun kills since the damned update! And I ride in them as a gunner as often as possible (although I'd much rather drive armor)! It's okay to weaken the thing, but removing the splash damage and making each 6mm round do 0.00002 % damage is nothing short of retardation on the developer's part.

The M134-A2 minigun is a devastating continuous-firing beast. Just a simple waving motion from outside any city building's lobby will cook everyone on the damned floor. Screw balance, the US military is supposed to have cutting-edge technology and superior firepower... if you didn't notice, the MEC can't even produce their own weaponry; everything there is Russian-made, and most of it is over 20 years old. I'm sure that they could at the very least add on splash damage again; in real life, the bullets impacting the ground would shoot up so much shrapnel that the M134-A2 could dig a small tunnel with a large canister of ammunition in real life.

If that one video can display just a simple waving of the weapon over a tank to OBLITERATE the thing, why can't it kill a single sniper sitting in a tower, minding his own damned business? When it comes to the point where a ground soldier can either just simply ignore a Blackhawk or can just run over to the Vodnik and take 1000 6mm shells without flinching (and fire twelve shots to take it down), we NEED a fix.

And stop saying that it's fine the way it is. If you can't take cover when you hear the chopper coming overhead, you need to learn how to do so fast. *coughCOMMONSENSEcough*

You can still kill infantry with it, but your aim will have to be VERY precise. I don't think there is any splash damage AT ALL now, which makes hitting infantry from the air extremely difficult.

I find that the minigun is still effective when you park your BH on the ground and use it like a stationary MG.

atlvolunteer wrote:

vassili_zaitsev wrote:

I find that the minigun is still effective when you park your BH on the ground and use it like a stationary MG.

Which is, of course, the way it was meant to be used... NOT 

Actually it was meant to be fired when landing, to support the troops leaving the vehicle? The blackhawk is not an offensive Gunship, It is labelled Transport!

vassili_zaitsev wrote:

You can still kill infantry with it, but your aim will have to be VERY precise. I don't think there is any splash damage AT ALL now, which makes hitting infantry from the air extremely difficult.

I find that the minigun is still effective when you park your BH on the ground and use it like a stationary MG.

I have many specific examples of infantry less than 20 ft away that could not be killed by the Miniguns. At that range I have no doubt that I was aiming correctly and still no bullets hit.

As for landing and using the minigun I have also noticed this.

Try this test for yourself. Get a decent pilot and take off in a BH. Now simply hover stationary and try firing the MG. You will notice that much less of your shots hit even when stationary hover than when you are on the ground.

What kind of FUBAR crap is that?

u have 2 be on target fully just 2 get a kill