BF2S Forums [Tribes Ascend] Official Thread

I've played this game for a total of about 30 minutes now and the shooting mechanics are just plain weird.

First thing I noticed was that moving fast from left to right and shooting at a stationary target causesd the projectile to end up to the right of the target. So I figured you had to compensate for your own momentum somewhat and just got on with it. 

I was watching some video on youtube Lucien linked me and I commented on how the spinfusor projectile was moving really fast for the guy in the video. Lucien doesn't notice it (because he is a noob) but I go and look it up.

Turns out Tribes has this thing called inheritance. Because the game designers decided to mix the genius combination of large maps, fast players and slow projectiles they had to introduce inheritance so you could actually hit people running away from you. All projectiles gain 50% of your momentum; so if you move forward and shoot forward your bullets travel faster, and if you shoot backwards they travel significantly slower. If you shoot perpendicular to the direction you're moving you get like a 20-30 degree deviation. All in all it just makes calculating where to aim retardedly difficult if you're both moving fast and at odd angles to each other.

I'm not entirely sure it's worth the effort of 'learning' to aim with inheritance. No other game has it as far as I know (apart from previous tribes games) and it's just so different to normal projectile behavour from quake/UT.

I noticed that perpendicular deviation too and found it extremely random and annoying.

god forbid you'd have to learn to play an fps instead of it being such a rehash of existing ones that you can just copy+paste your skills over

100% inheritance is retarded and doesn't work at all. It's at 50% for a reason

how hard is it to just deal with the fact that learning to shoot isn't a matter of ironsights + M1

seriously you've played a full 30 minutes of the game

Aries_37 wrote:

With 50% inheritance I think the game is just too counterintuitive. There will be a lot of situations where the better choice will be too not fire simply because making the shot against someone who is actively juking you is impossible. No matter how 'good' you are the guy running away always has a massive advantage when they're at a certain range because of the speeds that bullets travel at.

They either need to go to 100% inheritance or go to 0% but make projectiles move faster like in quake.

fail

the competitive scene seems to be coping fine without tribes being a quake-clone. do you not understand the point of tribes at all? the huge focus is on movement. if your shot is hard/"impossible" to line-up because of your movement angles and speeds, change them. line up a better shot. you act as if the game owes you the opportunity to get perfect airshots everytime. half the nuance of the play is in lining up your shots angle-wise and speed wise so that it's easier for you. half of the tact of dm'ing is in jetpack use, energy conservation, placement. there are so many levels of micro-strategy involved in confrontations because of this and because of the resources each player has at his disposal. it's not quake. yes, it does have huge maps, insane speeds and projectiles. so why are you expecting close-quarter quake mechanics?!? sounds like serious l2p to me.

if you've been watching pro videos you'll see they have coped just fine with the inheritance in this game. just go watch a stream of any professional chaser. their entire role is coping with inheritance and performing a task. they do it very well. but i guess you've just called the entire game out. better call the ESL on your emergency red telephone line you have on your desk and inform them the whole thing is a sham. dun dun dunnnn!

i don't think the game is perfect but i'm not sure accusing the weapon physics of making the game "not worthy of attention" is a really wise thing to do. 100% inheritance in this game would really make it too easy. the maps and chases are quite open affairs for the most part and its your own movement and management that make half the difficulty in chasing and placing a shot. it's almost half of the point in the current game. to say that it's not worth long-term investment because you couldn't adjust in 30 minutes is the most typical noob complaint imaginable. fwiw i think getting into the inheritance debate is a huge can of worms that people can take opposition to for any number of reasons, depending on their position. at the end of the day it comes down to the game having a certain ruleset and you having to l2p with it. if they started altering inheritance they'd also get into the nasty balance debate between projectiles and (semi-)hitscan weps, like the automatic rifles. currently they have different settings for both types of gun that makes them have different strengths and applications for different times. if you messed with projectile inheritance (or automatic inheritance, for that matter) it would fundamentally change the game and make it nearly impossible to balance (or at least shift the balance heavily towards automatic weps, especially for most chases, and spraying is just not what tribes is meant to be about - it's not another cod/bf game). right now every class loadout has strengths and weaknesses, as you'd expect from a class-based game. the fact you can't hit shit in your first 30 minutes cause you're not used to tribes is not a reason to dismiss the entire game. just not a valid ground for argument.

Last edited by Uzique (2012-04-15 07:40:12)

Shit. My crappy 4 year old laptop doesn't meet the minimum graphics card requirement. Totally wish I could give it a shot.

i replied to the dumb posts as i read them. sorry a quad-post is more conspicuous than a quad quote-train. i wasn't gonna read it all at once. great point though!

and yeah, of course it is to do with the fact you don't want to learn another game. tribes is completely different from bf2. you have never deviated from bf2 - you wouldn't even pick up tf2 which largely consists of basic projectile play (demo/solly). so no shit you are going to criticize tribes endlessly which has projectile+movement considerations. it's anathema to your little comfort zone. tribes has had a pro scene with 50% inheritance for as long as serious pc gaming has existed. are you suggesting the fault is really with the game design?

'random'? it's not random at all. it's determined very exactly. you use the word 'random' as if there is a random gameplay element here. there's not. your movement and direction affects a %-based inheritance stat. remedy? l2p. learn to move and line-up your shots properly. stop trying to kill the carrier whilst travelling 250sanics at a perpendicular angle. close the gap instead. line up a straight shot. pretty simple. not really sure why you're talking about 'random' elements as if there's a '5% random critical chance' or something. there isn't. how does it help the gameplay you ask? very simple: it puts more focus on your movement. the only time anyone is going to conceivably be taking (and relying on) shots at high-speed is when chasing. how many high-level chasers are publicly complaining about inheritance? zero. why? they've learned how to play. when chasing you've got to close the gap - that's pretty easy. the fc's health doesn't regen so he can't boost; you can catch him using your regen and boosts. make a shot. it really makes the game so much worse that you can't land perfectly-predicted disc at 250 metres distance? that's not the sort of game tribes is. it isn't quake in a field.

and talking about bf2 being hitscan is pretty much a way of distinguishing it from quake-style shooters. bullets vs. projectiles. cool pedanticism bro. you are winning this one!!!!111

Last edited by Uzique (2012-04-15 08:23:47)

I meant random as in impossible to accurately predict. But I guess you're right. It puts more emphasis on other aspects of the game. Just like BF2; a lot of people used to complain about the random deviation of BF2 and while I agree it is poorly implemented, it is absolutely necessary for that game because of the large scale of the maps. That game would have been such a boring campfest if the assault rifles were 100% accurate on first shot. The deviation forces you to put emphasis on game sense and movement instead of w+m1'ing for the win like current gen console games.

Oh and I didn't mean to be pedantic but the bullet projectile instead of hitscan makes a huge difference in BF2.

Uzique wrote:

"competitive gaming giants dota lol <3 <3 <3"

Looking at the money here. No FPS is even close to MOBA games or RTS's

Last edited by DUnlimited (2012-04-15 08:35:54)

DUnlimited wrote:

I meant random as in impossible to accurately predict. But I guess you're right. It puts more emphasis on other aspects of the game. Just like BF2; a lot of people used to complain about the random deviation of BF2 and while I agree it is poorly implemented, it is absolutely necessary for that game because of the large scale of the maps. That game would have been such a boring campfest if the assault rifles were 100% accurate on first shot. The deviation forces you to put emphasis on game sense and movement instead of w+m1'ing for the win like current gen console games.

Oh and I didn't mean to be pedantic but the bullet projectile instead of hitscan makes a huge difference in BF2.

Uzique wrote:

"competitive gaming giants dota lol <3 <3 <3"

Looking at the money here. No FPS is even close to MOBA games or RTS's

lots of money in halo too bro. and fifa football. brink had a $15,000 tournament when it launched. that was a greaaat game.

i don't give a fuck about dota or lol. they exist in their own hype-bubbles. they will burst. every esports scene has thus far. once upon a time quake and counter strike 1.6 had massive prizepots too. some people even made their own named gaming gear from it. remember those days? now we laugh. it's a corporate bubble, not some inherent "omg these games are the best competitive thing ever <3 <3 <3" shit. the money is there because the businesses involved see a way to make a profit/advertising opportunity. world of warcraft arena used to have hundreds of thousands of dollars involved in it as well. as an esport it was fucking terrible. money and quality are not related. stop being such a hopeless fanboy. computer games are not near-perfect logical systems like, say, chess. they have balance issues and are far too complex to really venerate as total perfect-competitive utopias. games become popular competitively for one reason: businesses and gaming companies agree to put a shitload of money in them. LAN's, professional teams, streaming/fan scenes... these all exist because in the first place there's someone, somewhere putting in $$$'s to attract the pros. expecting to make a profit, somewhere, somehow themselves. games like starcraft are excellent competitively and as competitive-systems, sure, but the reason for their 'fame' in gaming circles is because of the prizepots and sponsors creating the scene. you're all completely infatuated with it at the moment, it seems. don't forget that as soon as it stops becoming profitable for the investors and shadow-backers, the scene collapses. LANs stop being arranged. professional leagues stop supporting it because they can't put up prize-money. the difference between a game as entertainment/hobby and a game as an 'omg omg esport' is that there's a guy in a suit somewhere willing to call it an esport, in exchange for his companies logo on everything. i would have thought you would know this, by now, after years of supposedly 'top-level' bf2.

Last edited by Uzique (2012-04-15 08:48:45)

LoL and Dota are RPG's though. RPG's rely on numbers and - yes, random crit % and such shit. it's why WoW arena was a terrible esport. you can't remove the RPG and stats element from the game entirely. tribes doesn't have numbers or stats or random percentages on anything. it's a very complex mathematical game of vectors and projectiles, sure, but it doesn't have any random elements that crop up. LoL and DotA have items with stats and stacks and random effects and all sorts of shit like that - standard fare for an RPG, really. the comparison makes no sense.

Last edited by Uzique (2012-04-15 08:51:06)

take a physics class

this is also assuming in a vacuum with no gravitational effect etc