I'd like to see what the mark up margin is from Apple on products
pulling 46 billion in 4th quarter isn't based on small margins from the company
pulling 46 billion in 4th quarter isn't based on small margins from the company
this shits only getting exposure coz omg its apple related and a taiwanese company in china GASP.
chinese managers fucking shoot people if they protest.
chinese managers fucking shoot people if they protest.
I think it's around 100% or so. Markup, not marginSEREMAKER wrote:
I'd like to see what the mark up margin is from Apple on products
pulling 46 billion in 4th quarter isn't based on small margins from the company
Perhaps, but I have to agree with Ilocano.Jay wrote:
That's the natural course imho. Going zomg do it today or ban chinese imports like the times article wants is both unrealistic and damaging to all involved, even to the american union manufacturer they ultimately want to prevail. He wants cheap goods too.
Apple isn't "cheap." They care about maintaining high profits, and so they sell their products on style, ease of use, and (in the past) ethical business practices.
There was a time when the neo-hippies loved anything Apple, because of its cleaner image than the rest, but obviously, we can see now how hollow that image really was.
Human rights and labor rights are pretty similar.AussieReaper wrote:
Human rights? What human rights were they arguing Wall St bailouts was denying them?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
This. Apple is one of the most ruthless in that regard. Akin to a walmart in terms of using their market share/size to squeeze their suppliers as much as possible.Ilocano wrote:
But in the case of Apple, it's not about cheap goods. It's about stock growth. And how is that achieved? Maintaining extreme margins and profits.
Of course, there's also the fact that Americans, in general, are essentially the "1%" of the world in terms of living conditions.
Racing to the bottom is the majority of what global capitalism and consumerism is about.Spearhead wrote:
So it's race to the bottom with Apple as well?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
This. Apple is one of the most ruthless in that regard. Akin to a walmart in terms of using their market share/size to squeeze their suppliers as much as possible.Ilocano wrote:
But in the case of Apple, it's not about cheap goods. It's about stock growth. And how is that achieved? Maintaining extreme margins and profits.
Granted, I have to admit that I still shop at Walmart too.
Last edited by Turquoise (2012-01-26 14:53:15)
No need to get defensive.Cybargs wrote:
this shits only getting exposure coz omg its apple related and a taiwanese company in china GASP.
chinese managers fucking shoot people if they protest.
As you said, there's plenty of screwed up business practices in China that most of us benefit from in terms of getting cheap goods.
It seems a bit odd to try to downplay them when they become a story though.
This is true. It's also evidence for how screwed up capitalism can often be.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Have fun paying $1500 for a video card to grossly pad executive pay while minimally increasing the quality of working conditions for the factories.Macbeth wrote:
Xbox, Ipads, video cards...grown up toys? Why can't consumers pay a little more for their toys in order to make sure that the people who make their toys don't have to resort to suicide threats?
I can understand something like food, or energy. But ipads and xboxes? Come on if workers in the U.S. faced similar conditions there would be a shit storm.
Granted, I'm not saying we have much other choice...
Last edited by Turquoise (2012-01-26 14:55:16)
The other choice is to not buy a video card. We shouldn't be saying, 'well that's just the cost of business.' The problem as I see it is the fact that the dodgy business practices are to pad executive pay, not that we have to have cheap labor to get cheap products
no but people just don't give a shit. they'll bitch and moan about labour practices but they'd still buy their next i-shit.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
The other choice is to not buy a video card. We shouldn't be saying, 'well that's just the cost of business.' The problem as I see it is the fact that the dodgy business practices are to pad executive pay, not that we have to have cheap labor to get cheap products
Indeed. That's why economic boycotts are powerful protest tools, and there's historical evidence of them working. First step-raise awareness of the issue
ive been boycotting apple since i was a kid
Tu Stultus Es
Historical evidence? Can you give some examples?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Indeed. That's why economic boycotts are powerful protest tools, and there's historical evidence of them working. First step-raise awareness of the issue
It's pretty hard to raise awareness of the issues when the people you are attempting to boycott also own the means of mass communication.
Awesome, we got the guy who is never funny from the Daily Show, the other asshole who was in that one Bruce Willis movie, and that German model chick. I'm so glad they're all hip and young and shit. Thank god for Steve Jobs!
Spoiler (highlight to read):
I wonder how many Chinese slave laborers could have benefited from the money they spent on the horseshit they hire to market their brand to American consumers
Last edited by Spearhead (2012-01-26 17:31:53)
Montgomery bus boycott during civil rights era
Grapes boycott during the 80s?
Taco bell/yum brands boycott in the early 2000s
That's a few off the top of my head. Two of those were directly related to worker treatment/pay
Grapes boycott during the 80s?
Taco bell/yum brands boycott in the early 2000s
That's a few off the top of my head. Two of those were directly related to worker treatment/pay
the imus boycott of nappy headed hoes
Tu Stultus Es
You could say that worked but he was back on the air a few years later
So did the Montgomery bus boycotts matter because they caused damage to the economy of public transit or because it garnered so much publicity that it reached the US Supreme Court? Good luck getting Americans (or anyone for that matter) to boycott products manufactured on the other side of the planet.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Montgomery bus boycott during civil rights era
Grapes boycott during the 80s?
Taco bell/yum brands boycott in the early 2000s
That's a few off the top of my head. Two of those were directly related to worker treatment/pay
I guess my point was that boycotts happen all the time and fail miserably. The successful ones are the ones we hear about most... if they fail, we hardly ever hear about them.
You hardly ever hear about boycotts in general, that doesn't mean they don't happen and aren't successful. You're from Florida, how much did you hear about the yum brands boycott? It was started by the immokalee workers. It was hardly covered in the national media.
It really doesn't matter if the economic aspect or the publicity worked - the end result was change.
It really doesn't matter if the economic aspect or the publicity worked - the end result was change.
I remember hearing quite a bit about it although I was too young to know the complete story behind it. I was friends with some of the more "activist" friends/families in my youth (beyond that no one seemed to care).
But my point still stands. Do you think the same could be done on such a complex and ambiguous issue as international trade with China? Especially when the power of those who are benefiting are that much more entrenched? I'm not saying it's hopeless, I'm just doubtful that a boycott on that kind of scale against one of the most powerful tech companies in the world could be waged and succeed with the same results for the sole purpose of better wages for workers in China who have no political representation at all, especially when such powerful (multinational) interests are in the game as well.
But my point still stands. Do you think the same could be done on such a complex and ambiguous issue as international trade with China? Especially when the power of those who are benefiting are that much more entrenched? I'm not saying it's hopeless, I'm just doubtful that a boycott on that kind of scale against one of the most powerful tech companies in the world could be waged and succeed with the same results for the sole purpose of better wages for workers in China who have no political representation at all, especially when such powerful (multinational) interests are in the game as well.
Last edited by Spearhead (2012-01-26 18:38:50)
There was Levi's.
But for Apple, image is everything. So, who knows, if the news gets out enough.
But for Apple, image is everything. So, who knows, if the news gets out enough.
Problem is, a large segment of the population even reading about Apple on the internet will naturally be using an Apple product.Ilocano wrote:
There was Levi's.
But for Apple, image is everything. So, who knows, if the news gets out enough.
Exxon after Valdez, BP after their spill (to a lesser extent).KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Montgomery bus boycott during civil rights era
Grapes boycott during the 80s?
Taco bell/yum brands boycott in the early 2000s
That's a few off the top of my head. Two of those were directly related to worker treatment/pay
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Against Apple? Absolutely. Their customers are the most image conscious people on the planet. Get Maddow to start comparing Apple products to gas chambers or something and you'll find thousands of macbooks on ebay and craigslist within a week Liberal guilt is an amazing tool.Spearhead wrote:
I remember hearing quite a bit about it although I was too young to know the complete story behind it. I was friends with some of the more "activist" friends/families in my youth (beyond that no one seemed to care).
But my point still stands. Do you think the same could be done on such a complex and ambiguous issue as international trade with China? Especially when the power of those who are benefiting are that much more entrenched? I'm not saying it's hopeless, I'm just doubtful that a boycott on that kind of scale against one of the most powerful tech companies in the world could be waged and succeed with the same results for the sole purpose of better wages for workers in China who have no political representation at all, especially when such powerful (multinational) interests are in the game as well.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Yeah nobody should care that people work in shitty conditions, because well, it could be worse
Out of sight, out of mind.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Yeah nobody should care that people work in shitty conditions, because well, it could be worse
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I suppose. But in the previously mentioned hypothetical situation, is prices shot up globally to cover improving factory conditions, I doubt it would be by a huge margin (for the factory workers). So whatever warm glow in the pit of your stomach you got for paying more for a product might as well be an ulcer.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
The other choice is to not buy a video card. We shouldn't be saying, 'well that's just the cost of business.' The problem as I see it is the fact that the dodgy business practices are to pad executive pay, not that we have to have cheap labor to get cheap products
Plus there will always be people who will pay, and if you can't afford the high-end equivalent, you could always buy the low-end for what the high-end used to cost.
Maybe I am totally misunderstanding everything, but...
This original story is not about APPLE... It is about FOXCONN, and they are NOT APPLE... If I am not mistaken, they are the #1 maker of electroni components in the world, and make things for Apple, yes, but also for Microsoft, Sony, Amazon, Cisco, IBM, Dell, Intel, Asus, Acer, Samsung, Motorola, HP, and tons of other companies...
It is asinine to turn this into a "APPLE IS EVIL" witch-hunt... Everyone on this forum has something in their home made by Foxconn. I don't forsee anyone ditching all of their electronics in order to protest. Except maybe the Amish.
Foxconn has factories all over the planet... The Chinese factories are the main ones we keep hearing about... So is Apple evil, or is Foxconn evil, or is China evil, or is communism evil, or are Asian people evil, or are electronics evil, or are consumers evil, or is the planet evil?
So sick of hearing everyone blame Apple for the world's problems... And I'm not even a fan of apple, I use Android devices like my Samsung phone with Foxconn parts, and I use my Kindle with Foxconn parts, and my Dell laptop with Foxconn parts instead.
So instead of "Apple is the devil" what do you propose gets done to fix this? Pay more to Apple, so they can, what? Pay more to Foxconn, who makes more bank while continuing to treat their employees the same way? FORCE Apple to FORCE Foxconn to treat their employees better?
Be realistic... This is a Chinese government issue for allowing their citizens to take all our jobs, making them more money, and they sacrifice their people to do that.
I guess I could have an American Government attitude and say "Hey, let's go overthrow their government and put one in place that is more like ours." But that would never fly... China keeps giving us our cheap electronics at lower cost to us... Maybe we will go to war when their electronics cost more per barrel.
This original story is not about APPLE... It is about FOXCONN, and they are NOT APPLE... If I am not mistaken, they are the #1 maker of electroni components in the world, and make things for Apple, yes, but also for Microsoft, Sony, Amazon, Cisco, IBM, Dell, Intel, Asus, Acer, Samsung, Motorola, HP, and tons of other companies...
It is asinine to turn this into a "APPLE IS EVIL" witch-hunt... Everyone on this forum has something in their home made by Foxconn. I don't forsee anyone ditching all of their electronics in order to protest. Except maybe the Amish.
Foxconn has factories all over the planet... The Chinese factories are the main ones we keep hearing about... So is Apple evil, or is Foxconn evil, or is China evil, or is communism evil, or are Asian people evil, or are electronics evil, or are consumers evil, or is the planet evil?
So sick of hearing everyone blame Apple for the world's problems... And I'm not even a fan of apple, I use Android devices like my Samsung phone with Foxconn parts, and I use my Kindle with Foxconn parts, and my Dell laptop with Foxconn parts instead.
So instead of "Apple is the devil" what do you propose gets done to fix this? Pay more to Apple, so they can, what? Pay more to Foxconn, who makes more bank while continuing to treat their employees the same way? FORCE Apple to FORCE Foxconn to treat their employees better?
Be realistic... This is a Chinese government issue for allowing their citizens to take all our jobs, making them more money, and they sacrifice their people to do that.
I guess I could have an American Government attitude and say "Hey, let's go overthrow their government and put one in place that is more like ours." But that would never fly... China keeps giving us our cheap electronics at lower cost to us... Maybe we will go to war when their electronics cost more per barrel.