Christ jay that sounds shitty. I'm sure all that is made much worse when you're in war zone.
yeah army engineers is the shittiest job. air force is where all the smart kids go if you want to do military, and if you want an actual engineering/mechanic field go AF.
Its a bind, with the economy as it is, not everyone knows for sure what they want to do at 20 or wants to commit to years of training, debts and so on.
There must be alternative ways of 'wandering in the desert' than the default option of joining the military, I don't see that just driving around will help a great deal.
Sometimes it helps to get away and get some perspective, off the top of my head:
Take a really shitty job until you can't take any more.
Volunteer with a charity for people much less fortunate than you, go abroad maybe.
Do some travelling, backpacking.
Or throw yourself into college and don't give yourself a chance to think.
There must be alternative ways of 'wandering in the desert' than the default option of joining the military, I don't see that just driving around will help a great deal.
Sometimes it helps to get away and get some perspective, off the top of my head:
Take a really shitty job until you can't take any more.
Volunteer with a charity for people much less fortunate than you, go abroad maybe.
Do some travelling, backpacking.
Or throw yourself into college and don't give yourself a chance to think.
Fuck Israel
Join the french foreign legion
^ most people my age (18-25) feel that way, i think. all clueless, all having to take on lots of debt and training and qualification to supposedly 'get anywhere' in this modern world... but for now, that world is gone bust, and it's all a bit tits-up, so to speak. normally you'd go to college to try and find something you're passionate about in life, and then find a job from there and figure it out through your 20's (it's not unusual at all to feel confusedor lost at 20, i mean come on!). but now more often than not it's that you have to take one degree, then the other, then some professional qualification.... heavily specialising yourself in order to get anywhere. then the promise of a decent job and a way in life to 'figure shit out' is still a fine miracle. after i graduated i wasn't really sure what to do with myself - that supposed moment of miracle illumination had not come during my three years of undergrad - so i threw myself into a full-time office job over the summer and it acted like dilb's above point: "take a really shitty job until you can't take anymore". whilst my job was far from cleaning out sewers in london it gave me enough perspective to realise that standard entry-level graduate office monkey work was just not for me - i'd either be constantly restless and socially frustrated or i'd put a gun in my mouth. now i'm attacking the next stage of my life (postgraduate study) with a renewed interest and motivation. call it 'negative' motivation, if you will: if you don't know what to do with your life, find something you sure as fuck know you don't want to do and then do everything in your power to avoid it.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
I've got a lot of friends in the military and this is the general breakdown.
Ground troops: Unless you're a real tough cunt who likes living in hell, then you'll like it, if not, you'll hate it - The whole perception most people have of the army/marines kicking ass and looking cool whilst doing it, is far from true. The reality of war is that it's absolutely fucking terrifying and the most horrific/uncomfortable environment you'll ever be in.
RAF: Where you go if you don't want to get your hands too dirty, but still want a challenge. Whilst there are a tonne of options in RAF, being a pilot is easily the most rewarding and challenging position. Other positions are good and you get treated much better (still isn't great - unless you're an officer) than the ground troops.
Navy: Good fun for a while, although lots of monotonous shit to do during the day.
I've got friends in all three branches, in all different ranks. That's pretty much a summary of what they say.
To be honest, from what you've written, i'd say the RAF would suit you best.
Ground troops: Unless you're a real tough cunt who likes living in hell, then you'll like it, if not, you'll hate it - The whole perception most people have of the army/marines kicking ass and looking cool whilst doing it, is far from true. The reality of war is that it's absolutely fucking terrifying and the most horrific/uncomfortable environment you'll ever be in.
RAF: Where you go if you don't want to get your hands too dirty, but still want a challenge. Whilst there are a tonne of options in RAF, being a pilot is easily the most rewarding and challenging position. Other positions are good and you get treated much better (still isn't great - unless you're an officer) than the ground troops.
Navy: Good fun for a while, although lots of monotonous shit to do during the day.
I've got friends in all three branches, in all different ranks. That's pretty much a summary of what they say.
To be honest, from what you've written, i'd say the RAF would suit you best.
Infantry. It's like COD with awesome graphics.
Baba Booey
No, it's infinitely better because we all have ammunition. Suddenly they're your best friend.Spearhead wrote:
Christ jay that sounds shitty. I'm sure all that is made much worse when you're in war zone.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
First: take Jay's story with a grain of salt. That's one, bitter, person's perspective--who admits they shouldn't have been there to begin with, and thought they were better than everyone else around them from the start. Not the best way to enter a situation. There are literally millions of stories to contradict his. Personally, I know dozens of enlisted troops who are excellent leaders, who are highly sought after by civilian companies, but choose to stay for personal reasons. The dirtbags are the exception, not the rule. But then again, I'm not in the Army.
You won't get into OCS without a degree. So unless you plan on going to college while enlisted, it's not going to happen.
You seem to have a penchant for business. Maybe those early courses didn't hold your attention because it was stuff you already knew? Well, duh. They were intro classes. You have to stick with a program to get something out of it. Seems like maybe that's your issue: you don't have a lot of "stick to it" in you right now. The military would certainly fix that.
You won't get into OCS without a degree. So unless you plan on going to college while enlisted, it's not going to happen.
You seem to have a penchant for business. Maybe those early courses didn't hold your attention because it was stuff you already knew? Well, duh. They were intro classes. You have to stick with a program to get something out of it. Seems like maybe that's your issue: you don't have a lot of "stick to it" in you right now. The military would certainly fix that.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
I'm planning on getting out. My body is already starting to hate me, especially my back. It would hurt sometimes from football, almost two years of being in the infantry hasn't helped.
Last edited by 1stSFOD-Delta (2011-12-10 07:49:20)
Baba Booey
Seeing as you've never been enlisted, fuck off.FEOS wrote:
First: take Jay's story with a grain of salt. That's one, bitter, person's perspective--who admits they shouldn't have been there to begin with, and thought they were better than everyone else around them from the start. Not the best way to enter a situation. There are literally millions of stories to contradict his. Personally, I know dozens of enlisted troops who are excellent leaders, who are highly sought after by civilian companies, but choose to stay for personal reasons. The dirtbags are the exception, not the rule. But then again, I'm not in the Army.
You won't get into OCS without a degree. So unless you plan on going to college while enlisted, it's not going to happen.
You seem to have a penchant for business. Maybe those early courses didn't hold your attention because it was stuff you already knew? Well, duh. They were intro classes. You have to stick with a program to get something out of it. Seems like maybe that's your issue: you don't have a lot of "stick to it" in you right now. The military would certainly fix that.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
?Jay wrote:
Seeing as you've never been enlisted, fuck off.FEOS wrote:
First: take Jay's story with a grain of salt. That's one, bitter, person's perspective--who admits they shouldn't have been there to begin with, and thought they were better than everyone else around them from the start. Not the best way to enter a situation. There are literally millions of stories to contradict his. Personally, I know dozens of enlisted troops who are excellent leaders, who are highly sought after by civilian companies, but choose to stay for personal reasons. The dirtbags are the exception, not the rule. But then again, I'm not in the Army.
You won't get into OCS without a degree. So unless you plan on going to college while enlisted, it's not going to happen.
You seem to have a penchant for business. Maybe those early courses didn't hold your attention because it was stuff you already knew? Well, duh. They were intro classes. You have to stick with a program to get something out of it. Seems like maybe that's your issue: you don't have a lot of "stick to it" in you right now. The military would certainly fix that.
I thought FEOS was AF for some reason.
Pretty much what cougar (he was AF) told is that a lot of SNCO's are dickheads and will fuck you over on something trivial, but the higher rank you are, the more likely your ass will get canned if someone in your unit fucked up (Full bird got canned because some dumb NCO lost nuke shipping docs, nuke got found 5 months later lol). Shit does trickle down in the military and you definitely gotta watch your back and not fuck up unless your job is so goddamn important that they will suck your dick (cryptolinguists, cyber-security, medical personnel, other high skilled areas).
What? My battalion commander wanted his bird, but only received orders to deploy 2 1/2 companies to Iraq instead of the full battalion. This would've made it more difficult for him to claim a combat command as it would only be considered a detachment. My brigade commander was in the same boat, he wanted his star, so between the two of them they begged, or lied, depending on who you ask, and we ended up deploying the entire battalion, plus another company as an attachment, plus brigade headquarters. Because these assholes wanted to further their careers, they endangered the lives of hundreds more soldiers.Cybargs wrote:
?Jay wrote:
Seeing as you've never been enlisted, fuck off.FEOS wrote:
First: take Jay's story with a grain of salt. That's one, bitter, person's perspective--who admits they shouldn't have been there to begin with, and thought they were better than everyone else around them from the start. Not the best way to enter a situation. There are literally millions of stories to contradict his. Personally, I know dozens of enlisted troops who are excellent leaders, who are highly sought after by civilian companies, but choose to stay for personal reasons. The dirtbags are the exception, not the rule. But then again, I'm not in the Army.
You won't get into OCS without a degree. So unless you plan on going to college while enlisted, it's not going to happen.
You seem to have a penchant for business. Maybe those early courses didn't hold your attention because it was stuff you already knew? Well, duh. They were intro classes. You have to stick with a program to get something out of it. Seems like maybe that's your issue: you don't have a lot of "stick to it" in you right now. The military would certainly fix that.
I thought FEOS was AF for some reason.
Pretty much what cougar (he was AF) told is that a lot of SNCO's are dickheads and will fuck you over on something trivial, but the higher rank you are, the more likely your ass will get canned if someone in your unit fucked up (Full bird got canned because some dumb NCO lost nuke shipping docs, nuke got found 5 months later lol). Shit does trickle down in the military and you definitely gotta watch your back and not fuck up unless your job is so goddamn important that they will suck your dick (cryptolinguists, cyber-security, medical personnel, other high skilled areas).
What happened when we got to Iraq? Half of the brigade ended up sitting on their ass the whole time pulling Hadji guard duty. I spent four months on a bullshit fake job providing telephones to a building with three people in it where there was another telephone truck 100 meters away. They couldn't find enough jobs for us to fill.
Once officers reach the rank of O-4 they seem to stop giving a shit about anything but their own pride and career. They don't care if they have to kill hundreds of their own men in order to retire as a general.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
full birds the rank where you are most likely to get canned if you fuck up. mo money mo problems yo. of course people who havent reached the bird would want to, but once they reach that rank their ass is on the line (depending on the general ofc). Full birds are usually scapegoats if some big shit fucks up (like losing a nuke).
excuse me but why are you talking about this as if you know fucking anything?Cybargs wrote:
full birds the rank where you are most likely to get canned if you fuck up. mo money mo problems yo. of course people who havent reached the bird would want to, but once they reach that rank their ass is on the line (depending on the general ofc). Full birds are usually scapegoats if some big shit fucks up (like losing a nuke).
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
I didn't want to be mean, but I was thinking the same thing.Uzique wrote:
excuse me but why are you talking about this as if you know fucking anything?Cybargs wrote:
full birds the rank where you are most likely to get canned if you fuck up. mo money mo problems yo. of course people who havent reached the bird would want to, but once they reach that rank their ass is on the line (depending on the general ofc). Full birds are usually scapegoats if some big shit fucks up (like losing a nuke).
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
i mean i have no military experience but i know from anecdotal evidence (and common sense, really) that in the british military, seniority means you're even harder to budge. you have connections, esteem, and you convey a certain metonymic (that is to say, associative) image of the military. as you get more and more entrenched in the old boy's network at the officers mess you're obviously much less likely to be dismissed by your superiors - the amount of money you make is irrelevant.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
You won't be dismissed, but because of the pyramidal structure, it becomes harder and harder to separate yourself from your peers. There's only so many general officer positions to go around, so people do exceedingly stupid and selfish shit in order to advance. The worst part is that the people above them give them a pat on the head for being 'go getters'. Who cares how many lower enlisted you crush on the way, they're nameless, faceless numbers on a data sheet.Uzique wrote:
i mean i have no military experience but i know from anecdotal evidence (and common sense, really) that in the british military, seniority means you're even harder to budge. you have connections, esteem, and you convey a certain metonymic (that is to say, associative) image of the military. as you get more and more entrenched in the old boy's network at the officers mess you're obviously much less likely to be dismissed by your superiors - the amount of money you make is irrelevant.
And yes, I am extremely bitter. Because my asshole colonels wanted to get ahead, I was stop-lossed for seven months, which in turn pushed me back a year in school and life. I lost a year of my life so that I could work an eight hour shift servicing three phone lines.
Last edited by Jay (2011-12-10 10:47:16)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
After you hit the high ranks everything becomes politicized. Why do you think McChrystal and Fuller got fired in Afghanistan? their "connections" didn't save their asses. There's been cases of full birds being relieved for fucking up (Doherty in Iraq). Recently the Navy has been relieving captains and admirals due to fuck ups (or forced to retire).Jay wrote:
I didn't want to be mean, but I was thinking the same thing.Uzique wrote:
excuse me but why are you talking about this as if you know fucking anything?Cybargs wrote:
full birds the rank where you are most likely to get canned if you fuck up. mo money mo problems yo. of course people who havent reached the bird would want to, but once they reach that rank their ass is on the line (depending on the general ofc). Full birds are usually scapegoats if some big shit fucks up (like losing a nuke).
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-01-04/us/n … d?_s=PM:US
http://www.stripes.com/former-norfolk-c … s-1.160799
It's the same as when a company fucks up, CEOs have their asses on the lines.
I wouldn't say they are the most likely to get binned if they fuck up at all. The only reason you know about big rankers getting chucked out is because it makes a big story.Cybargs wrote:
After you hit the high ranks everything becomes politicized. Why do you think McChrystal and Fuller got fired in Afghanistan? their "connections" didn't save their asses. There's been cases of full birds being relieved for fucking up (Doherty in Iraq). Recently the Navy has been relieving captains and admirals due to fuck ups (or forced to retire).Jay wrote:
I didn't want to be mean, but I was thinking the same thing.Uzique wrote:
excuse me but why are you talking about this as if you know fucking anything?
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-01-04/us/n … d?_s=PM:US
http://www.stripes.com/former-norfolk-c … s-1.160799
It's the same as when a company fucks up, CEOs have their asses on the lines.
It wouldn't surprise me that if for Captain that gets binned, at least 50 bods get the cut too. (not saying at the same time, but that could be the ratio).
You'll never hear about a bod getting axed though, simply because no one gives a fuck.
Last edited by Pure_Beef_68 (2011-12-10 11:47:05)
I wasn't just skipping a single class. I would skip a full day of classes, skip a week, w/e. My last girlfriend dumped me because apparently my eyes say "I want to kill you" to everyone, and she couldn't deal with the endless cynicism. Too name a couple. Anyways I hate people.Jay wrote:
You probably just need to overload yourself with classes so you can't say 'ahh, I just have one class today, fuck it I'm not going'. A schedule with huge gaps does the same thing. The biggest thing that will keep you going to class is really the simplest thing of all though: make friends with your classmates.
There is no way I'm going to get anywhere in college without a destination that I want.
Yeah I really am turning into a whiny bitch huh?Jay wrote:
btw, is this hurricanes new troll account or what?
No offense hurricat
Its not really a setback for me. Its something I can deal with, I'm not sure its something I want to do anymore. I'm using this as an opportunity to change my lifes direction.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Skimmed through most of the OP. I'd recommend moving somewhere else (maybe to a place you want to visit) and start up a new business. Or just start up another business where you are now. Plenty of successful businessmen have had worse setbacks than that.
If you still want to join the military, there's no harm in simply walking into recruitment and finding out what your prospects are. Sometimes you can bump up your initial rank depending on what you've done in the past. But you don't need "tough love." You need a job.
Will walk into a recruitment center for the hell of it next week. I agree. Military is probably wrong. I need a job I enjoy, thats one of the only things I want out of life. I hate the rest of life, I just want to be able to work 40-60hours a week at something I enjoy.
I spent a week working at a civil engineering firm between my junior and senior year. More just watching then working. Wasn't that stupid make copy shit, I was just an observer. Thats when I realized it wasn't for me. Met a guy there who spent 3 months designing the drainage for the construction site of a elementary school.Uzique wrote:
^ most people my age (18-25) feel that way, i think. all clueless, all having to take on lots of debt and training and qualification to supposedly 'get anywhere' in this modern world... but for now, that world is gone bust, and it's all a bit tits-up, so to speak. normally you'd go to college to try and find something you're passionate about in life, and then find a job from there and figure it out through your 20's (it's not unusual at all to feel confusedor lost at 20, i mean come on!). but now more often than not it's that you have to take one degree, then the other, then some professional qualification.... heavily specialising yourself in order to get anywhere. then the promise of a decent job and a way in life to 'figure shit out' is still a fine miracle. after i graduated i wasn't really sure what to do with myself - that supposed moment of miracle illumination had not come during my three years of undergrad - so i threw myself into a full-time office job over the summer and it acted like dilb's above point: "take a really shitty job until you can't take anymore". whilst my job was far from cleaning out sewers in london it gave me enough perspective to realise that standard entry-level graduate office monkey work was just not for me - i'd either be constantly restless and socially frustrated or i'd put a gun in my mouth. now i'm attacking the next stage of my life (postgraduate study) with a renewed interest and motivation. call it 'negative' motivation, if you will: if you don't know what to do with your life, find something you sure as fuck know you don't want to do and then do everything in your power to avoid it.
I can't stand inefficiency like that. I could never work in that environment. I need to be around stuff being accomplished, I want to feel like I actually did something with my life. Thats why I went the route of owning my own business.
Right now, I'm about 99.5% sure the only thing I sure as fuck don't want to do is work in an office, work for an inefficient operation, or work under a moron. I realize that the military covers the last two.
I do take Jay's story with a grain of salt. He is two far "above" the military. He's just a different person but a lot of his experiences would apply to me. I'm pretty positive I'd be miserable there. My only hope would be that I'd be LESS miserable than outside of it, and I might come out of it with something positive.FEOS wrote:
First: take Jay's story with a grain of salt. That's one, bitter, person's perspective--who admits they shouldn't have been there to begin with, and thought they were better than everyone else around them from the start. Not the best way to enter a situation. There are literally millions of stories to contradict his. Personally, I know dozens of enlisted troops who are excellent leaders, who are highly sought after by civilian companies, but choose to stay for personal reasons. The dirtbags are the exception, not the rule. But then again, I'm not in the Army.
You won't get into OCS without a degree. So unless you plan on going to college while enlisted, it's not going to happen.
You seem to have a penchant for business. Maybe those early courses didn't hold your attention because it was stuff you already knew? Well, duh. They were intro classes. You have to stick with a program to get something out of it. Seems like maybe that's your issue: you don't have a lot of "stick to it" in you right now. The military would certainly fix that.
I am missing the "stick to it if I don't enjoy it" discipline. Though I'm pretty sure that's just laziness. I enjoy working hard, I just want to work for something I enjoy.
One of my major worries. I do have problems with a couple joints and I'm sure as hell that my weird left knee would probably be fucked up by the time I got out.1stSFOD-Delta wrote:
I'm planning on getting out. My body is already starting to hate me, especially my back. It would hurt sometimes from football, almost two years of being in the infantry hasn't helped.
I didn't expect them too. I expected to clear minefields and set up bridges. Getting my ass blown away is not really a concern at this moment in time, I'm not really living for much.Jay wrote:
Military engineers are not like civilian engineers. Military engineers are the guys out in front of the infantry clearing minefields and setting up bridges. They don't build buildings, that's what civilian contractors are for.
What else? How about this: smart people do not stay in the military. Even moderately intelligent people do not stay in the military. The people that re-enlist are the people that have nothing else going on in their life: they married and had kids too young, or they're from bumfuck nowhere and have nothing else going on, or they're too dumb to hold down a civilian job. Regardless, these are the people that become sergeants. The military generally starts off with the scraps of society, and it's these scraps of scraps that become the leaders you'd have to deal with every day. Do you know how disheartening it is to have to listen to complete morons tell you what to do every day? There's a reason the phrase 'respect the rank, not the person' is repeated like a mantra on a daily basis.
Here's a story for you. My first sergeant was cheating on his wife with one of the females in the office, and he didn't want to go home. Ever. This asshole would keep us in formation until 6:55 pm every night just because. The only reason he didn't keep us longer was because the dining facility closed at 7 pm and he'd get in trouble if we missed dinner. I dealt with that shit for two fucking years. One miserable power tripping asshole fucking up the lives of the hundred soldiers he was supposed to be leading. This wasn't considered abnormal.
If you want to sign up, go ahead. It's your life. If I can prevent one person from making the same dumb mistake I made, I'll have done my job.
I disagree. Usually the smart people end up in Special Forces or some specialized field, but there are probably a few smart people who stuck it out in the infantry.
I'd probably have snapped and killed the guy, knowing the consequences. I can't deal with things like that. Stupidity, blatant selfishness, laziness (I realize the irony), inefficiency.
In all honesty. If I joined, I'd do it around March. That is the time by which I will have to spend money on my business or leave it. That is just before my next semester of classes ends. I have until then to make a decision.
I tend to consider suicide every 10 months to a year. Seems to be a pattern. I usually last no longer than a couple minutes to a few hours until I snap out of it and say to myself "fuck everyone who says I can't do it, fuck the people in my way, fuck myself, fuck everything, I'm not letting it bring me down." Problem is I seem to be falling a little further each time and climbing a little less. I'd never actually go through with it, I'm too much of a pussy, but I'm honestly tired of this, I want a change, I want to move on, I need an escape, I need to start over, I just don't know how.
This was posted on a previous thread. This is what you could face in the military: http://www.michaelyon-online.com/
Well my experience with military way of life is different then Jays ......... picture the overall military as a massive corporation
I think it would be best for you, you're able to get and see the world and get paid for doing it, you'll meet some great people that you'll stay in contact with for life, its a great place to test yourself ( you'll always have the ability to advance yourself with different courses )
if you want to do the GI Bill and withhold $100 a month your first year then thats more money you would be saving from that 6 figure account you have
Everyone seems to have a different experience then the next but mostly from what I saw, its what you make of it .........
I think it would be best for you, you're able to get and see the world and get paid for doing it, you'll meet some great people that you'll stay in contact with for life, its a great place to test yourself ( you'll always have the ability to advance yourself with different courses )
if you want to do the GI Bill and withhold $100 a month your first year then thats more money you would be saving from that 6 figure account you have
Everyone seems to have a different experience then the next but mostly from what I saw, its what you make of it .........
and hardcore mode enabled1stSFOD-Delta wrote:
Infantry. It's like COD with awesome graphics.
I like COD graphics better though <3
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
In America, I blame in part school's disorganized lack of focus in finding out what kids might enjoy doing for a career and aiming them down that path if they agree to it. This what school counselors should be doing.Uzique wrote:
^ most people my age (18-25) feel that way, i think. all clueless, all having to take on lots of debt and training and qualification to supposedly 'get anywhere' in this modern world... but for now, that world is gone bust, and it's all a bit tits-up, so to speak. normally you'd go to college to try and find something you're passionate about in life, and then find a job from there and figure it out through your 20's (it's not unusual at all to feel confusedor lost at 20, i mean come on!). but now more often than not it's that you have to take one degree, then the other, then some professional qualification.... heavily specialising yourself in order to get anywhere. then the promise of a decent job and a way in life to 'figure shit out' is still a fine miracle.
Most people we hire on have poor organizational and communication skills, and are unable to remember or follow complex directions (or take offense when they're simplified). When I went to school, there was hardly any focus in any of those. No wonder people are so f*cking confused.