Texas uses race as criteria to assess the chances of a repeat offence?

2011-09-16 01:47:43

#1

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6972|St. Andrews / Oslo

Buck's guilt is not in doubt. At issue is the sentencing hearing, at which jurors were called upon to decide whether to condemn him to death or to life in prison. Under Texas law, the jury must weigh whether the defendant poses a "future danger."

Dr. Walter Quijano, a psychologist and defense witness, testified that Buck was not likely to be dangerous because he had no previous history of violence.

But a prosecutor cited the "the race factor" and asked whether Buck's being black "increases the future dangerousness." Yes, the psychologist replied. Prosecutors cited that testimony in their closing argument.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/13 … n-20110914

If the quotes are accurate, then this is truly shocking.. I don't care whether or not people think he should/shouldn't get the death penalty, it's genuinely terrifying that things like this are allowed to go on in a court room.

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2011-09-16 01:59:34

#2

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|6956

"But a prosecutor cited the "the race factor" and asked whether Buck's being black "increases the future dangerousness." Yes, the psychologist replied."

Lol psychologist fucked up his defence.

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2011-09-16 02:02:17

#3

Ty: Mass Media Casualty; +2,398|7014|Noizyland

It is pretty awful. I agree that statistics probably would give Buck a higher chance of re-offending - but we're talking about statistics here. Statistically as a white 20-something male I'm likely to take part in illegal street racing. However other factors, like the fact that I don't have a car or don't care for car racing in any form, mean that in my case this statistic is irrelevant. It is pretty horrible that this sort of thing counts as valid testimony in any court, never mind the fact that this is to decide whether the state will kill a man or not.

[Blinking eyes thing]
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2011-09-16 03:26:43

#4

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6891|USA

Well, whats the problem? If the statistics shows that he has a greater chance of re-offending, he is speaking to the facts correct? Oh wait, is pointing out the facts racist, if they are not favorable to your race? Of course it is.What is awful is the truth behind the statistic itself, not the fact that someone dares mention it.

My question is this, why are they even talking about the chances of re-offending? He either goes to jail for the rest of his life, or he goes to the chair. Either way, re-offending doesn't seem to be an issue right?

and Ty your analogy doesn't apply here, since this guy is a convicted murderer, ( he has a car and has proved he cares about racing).

Why should facts of the matter regardless as to how ugly they might be, not be used in court? Or are we just talking about political correctness now?

Last edited by lowing (2011-09-16 03:27:58)

2011-09-16 03:33:13

#5

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6972|St. Andrews / Oslo

It is statistically correct, yes, but it is not an argument that should ever be used in court.

The colour of his skin is used as an argument to execute him. Please tell me how that's not completely backwards.

2011-09-16 03:44:48

#6

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6891|USA

Jenspm wrote:
It is statistically correct, yes, but it is not an argument that should ever be used in court.

The colour of his skin is used as an argument to execute him. Please tell me how that's not completely backwards.

It is a fact, you are saying some facts should not be used to make sure a murderer is punished for his crime. I disagree, I say any and all facts that help put a murderer to sleep is fair game. As long as it is fact.

I agree, it is a shitty statistic, and who decided it is a stat that needed to be tracked?, but it is even more shitty if this guy doesn't go down for his crime.

2011-09-16 03:55:22

#7

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6972|St. Andrews / Oslo

"Prosecutors cited that testimony in their closing argument."

That is more than stating facts, that is saying that someone should be executed because of said fact. It's horrendous.

If it is the deciding factor, we'd get to the point where we can honestly say that "Sorry man, it's a shame you're black - we would have spared your life otherwise!"

You're creating a psychological profile on a single man using a completely arbitrary statistic on an entire race. Complete shite.

2011-09-16 03:59:20

#8

Little BaBy JESUS: m8; +394|6388|'straya

Did they also argue that statistically as a male he is more likely to re-offend? Seems about as relevant.

2011-09-16 04:10:53

#9

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6891|USA

Jenspm wrote:
"Prosecutors cited that testimony in their closing argument."

That is more than stating facts, that is saying that someone should be executed because of said fact. It's horrendous.

If it is the deciding factor, we'd get to the point where we can honestly say that "Sorry man, it's a shame you're black - we would have spared your life otherwise!"

You're creating a psychological profile on a single man using a completely arbitrary statistic on an entire race. Complete shite.

actually I think the murderer created his psychological profile the second he murdered someone. Lets try not to forget that he is not being punished for being black he is being punished for murder. and the stats goes to his re offending, not his guilt or innocence

2011-09-16 09:02:20

#10

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6650|'Murka

THAT prosecutor did. THE STATE OF TEXAS did not.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-09-16 09:41:25

#11

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5825

Just spending a single night in jail raises the risk of being a repeat offender. There tends to be a cascading effect when you enter the criminal justice system. What the hell the prosecution was thinking by bringing race into it anyone's guess. He now has a good shot at a retrial. I know it was the sentencing part but he still has a decent argument that the state singled him out.

2011-09-16 14:03:52

#12

west-phoenix-az: Guns don't kill people. . . joe bidens advice does; +632|6629

lowing wrote:
My question is this, why are they even talking about the chances of re-offending? He either goes to jail for the rest of his life, or he goes to the chair. Either way, re-offending doesn't seem to be an issue right?

He could harm another inmate or prison staff.

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2011-09-16 15:28:03

#13

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6891|USA

west-phoenix-az wrote:
lowing wrote:
My question is this, why are they even talking about the chances of re-offending? He either goes to jail for the rest of his life, or he goes to the chair. Either way, re-offending doesn't seem to be an issue right?
He could harm another inmate or prison staff.

If he harmed another inmate, I can live with that. If he harmed a guard, he will get his in the end. Either way, he has played into the statistic and proved the DA right hasn't he?

2011-09-16 17:25:19

#14

Ty: Mass Media Casualty; +2,398|7014|Noizyland

lowing wrote:
and Ty your analogy doesn't apply here, since this guy is a convicted murderer, ( he has a car and has proved he cares about racing).

Yeah, fair point.

I also thought as you did about the reoffending question and why it is being raised. Like you said, either life in prison or hit-with-a-brick. Reoffending doesn't fit in that scenario and to use it to determine what sentence he gets kind of screams "fuck logic".

Additionally, I don't get why a psychologist was asked to give an answer that speaks to statistics, not psychology. That evidence should be inadmissible.

There are reasons why Texas has such a gargantuan number of executions and I don't think that it's due to the criminals being particularly bad in Texas.

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2011-09-18 02:14:36

#15

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|6921|Disaster Free Zone

lowing wrote:
Jenspm wrote:
"Prosecutors cited that testimony in their closing argument."

That is more than stating facts, that is saying that someone should be executed because of said fact. It's horrendous.

If it is the deciding factor, we'd get to the point where we can honestly say that "Sorry man, it's a shame you're black - we would have spared your life otherwise!"

You're creating a psychological profile on a single man using a completely arbitrary statistic on an entire race. Complete shite.
actually I think the murderer created his psychological profile the second he murdered someone. Lets try not to forget that he is not being punished for being black he is being punished for murder. and the stats goes to his re offending, not his guilt or innocence

He's being executed because he's black, no what his crime is. (Or at least that's what the prosecution is arguing)

2011-09-18 02:25:57

#16

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6972|St. Andrews / Oslo

FEOS wrote:
THAT prosecutor did. THE STATE OF TEXAS did not.

Does the prosecutor not represent the state, though?

(I know though, I know. But the thread title would be a lot more boring if I clarified that )

2011-09-18 02:29:28

#17

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6891|USA

DrunkFace wrote:
lowing wrote:
Jenspm wrote:
"Prosecutors cited that testimony in their closing argument."

That is more than stating facts, that is saying that someone should be executed because of said fact. It's horrendous.

If it is the deciding factor, we'd get to the point where we can honestly say that "Sorry man, it's a shame you're black - we would have spared your life otherwise!"

You're creating a psychological profile on a single man using a completely arbitrary statistic on an entire race. Complete shite.
actually I think the murderer created his psychological profile the second he murdered someone. Lets try not to forget that he is not being punished for being black he is being punished for murder. and the stats goes to his re offending, not his guilt or innocence
He's being executed because he's black, no what his crime is. (Or at least that's what the prosecution is arguing)

Was there something that was presented by the DA that was untrue? If there were lies argued, or facts not presented that could go to his innocence, let me know so I can rethink as to whether or not this murderer should be put down like a dog.

2011-09-18 03:46:14

#18

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6345|eXtreme to the maX

Cybargs wrote:
"But a prosecutor cited the "the race factor" and asked whether Buck's being black "increases the future dangerousness." Yes, the psychologist replied."

Lol psychologist fucked up his defence.

Lawyers don't ask a question unless they know what the answer is going to be.

Fuck Israel

2011-09-18 04:32:18

#19

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|6921|Disaster Free Zone

lowing wrote:
DrunkFace wrote:
lowing wrote:
actually I think the murderer created his psychological profile the second he murdered someone. Lets try not to forget that he is not being punished for being black he is being punished for murder. and the stats goes to his re offending, not his guilt or innocence
He's being executed because he's black, no what his crime is. (Or at least that's what the prosecution is arguing)
Was there something that was presented by the DA that was untrue? If there were lies argued, or facts not presented that could go to his innocence, let me know so I can rethink as to whether or not this murderer should be put down like a dog.

His innocence isn't in question, and your personal views on the punishment of murder are completely irrelevant. But the prosecution is effectively trying to change his punishment purely based on his race. It's no different to saying a male should get a $100 speeding ticket but females for the exact same offence should only be charged $70, because they are statistically less likely to have an accident.

Last edited by DrunkFace (2011-09-18 04:33:27)

2011-09-18 05:16:39

#20

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6891|USA

DrunkFace wrote:
lowing wrote:
DrunkFace wrote:

He's being executed because he's black, no what his crime is. (Or at least that's what the prosecution is arguing)
Was there something that was presented by the DA that was untrue? If there were lies argued, or facts not presented that could go to his innocence, let me know so I can rethink as to whether or not this murderer should be put down like a dog.
His innocence isn't in question, and your personal views on the punishment of murder are completely irrelevant. But the prosecution is effectively trying to change his punishment purely based on his race. It's no different to saying a male should get a $100 speeding ticket but females for the exact same offence should only be charged $70, because they are statistically less likely to have an accident.

I don't see it that way. I think the DA is using every fact at his disposal to make his case. I do not think if the murderer were white, the DA would work to try and spare his life. Do you?

2011-09-18 07:45:53

#21

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|6921|Disaster Free Zone

I'm sure they would have gone "statistically most serial killers are white males, we should execute him so he can't continues his killing spree".

2011-09-18 08:38:40

#22

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6891|USA

DrunkFace wrote:
I'm sure they would have gone "statistically most serial killers are white males, we should execute him so he can't continues his killing spree".

So, doesn't sound like a racist tactic then to make sure you get the death penalty for those you prosecute for murder.

2011-09-18 17:42:36

#23

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6650|'Murka

Jenspm wrote:
FEOS wrote:
THAT prosecutor did. THE STATE OF TEXAS did not.
Does the prosecutor not represent the state, though?

(I know though, I know. But the thread title would be a lot more boring if I clarified that )

That is not necessarily the state's position, though.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2011-09-19 06:19:44

#24

HITNRUNXX: Member; +220|6949|Oklahoma City

DrunkFace wrote:
lowing wrote:
DrunkFace wrote:

He's being executed because he's black, no what his crime is. (Or at least that's what the prosecution is arguing)
Was there something that was presented by the DA that was untrue? If there were lies argued, or facts not presented that could go to his innocence, let me know so I can rethink as to whether or not this murderer should be put down like a dog.
His innocence isn't in question, and your personal views on the punishment of murder are completely irrelevant. But the prosecution is effectively trying to change his punishment purely based on his race. It's no different to saying a male should get a $100 speeding ticket but females for the exact same offence should only be charged $70, because they are statistically less likely to have an accident.

I think that is EXACTLY right... Great analogy!

2011-09-19 12:46:04

#25

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6891|USA

HITNRUNXX wrote:
DrunkFace wrote:
lowing wrote:

Was there something that was presented by the DA that was untrue? If there were lies argued, or facts not presented that could go to his innocence, let me know so I can rethink as to whether or not this murderer should be put down like a dog.
His innocence isn't in question, and your personal views on the punishment of murder are completely irrelevant. But the prosecution is effectively trying to change his punishment purely based on his race. It's no different to saying a male should get a $100 speeding ticket but females for the exact same offence should only be charged $70, because they are statistically less likely to have an accident.
I think that is EXACTLY right... Great analogy!

Not really no. For that analogy, insurance would be cheaper for women than they are for men, and what do ya know, they are!!

BF2S Forums Texas uses race as criteria to assess the chances of a repeat offence?

Jenspm wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

lowing wrote:

west-phoenix-az wrote:

lowing wrote:

lowing wrote:

lowing wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

FEOS wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

lowing wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

lowing wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

lowing wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

lowing wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

FEOS wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

lowing wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

HITNRUNXX wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

lowing wrote:

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