It's not all about you, you know.lowing wrote:
Well he was talking to me, and you added to his comment to me, so I kinda figured yo wanted to be included so I included you in the question. Feel free to not answer it of course.Jaekus wrote:
Yeah, I was kinda talking to someone else.
Last edited by Jaekus (2011-07-28 17:16:51)
lol what do ya mean by that? You claim some sort of govt. bias to churches by saying churches get tax breaks from the govt. Ok fine, are they the only religion in the US to get them or not? If not, where is the bias?AussieReaper wrote:
Or here we go.lowing wrote:
JUST churches, or do Mosques and Synagogues get them as well?AussieReaper wrote:
True. Except Churches get the nice little sweetener of tax exempt status.
Last edited by lowing (2011-07-28 17:21:26)
lol I am not making it about me, I asked a simple question... Can you not believe in an ideology without endorsing murder for it? If not explain why not, if so, why get so pissed off at the person that does just that?Jaekus wrote:
It's not all about you, you know.lowing wrote:
Well he was talking to me, and you added to his comment to me, so I kinda figured yo wanted to be included so I included you in the question. Feel free to not answer it of course.Jaekus wrote:
Yeah, I was kinda talking to someone else.
*ignores lowing*
Number three and the last five, sure. I think the values are ridiculous though.AussieReaper wrote:
I guess going to the source is out of your depth?Jay wrote:
I googled it. All I saw was a bunch of left wing websites (surprise! seeing as how you are AussieI'veNeverHadAnOpinionThatWasn'tSpoonfedToMe) all repeating the same story. That's cool I guess.AussieReaper wrote:
Ya huh
Tea Party summer camps for 8 year-olds to learn about defending economic liberty!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … berty.html
Do you believe in at least 7 of The Nine Principles below?
1. America is good.
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.
12 Values: Honesty, Reverence, Hope, Thrift, Humility, Charity, Sincerity, Moderation, Hard Work, Courage, Personal Responsibility, and Gratitude.
http://www.meetup.com/tampa912/
From what I understand the camps are organised by youth political groups, (i.e. not the party itself,) and they are for teenagers and young adults rather than children. There are political youth groups everywhere, we have them here in NZ, in America there and the Young Democrats of America group and the Young Republican National Federation - and others I'm sure. They all have their own gatherings and meetings, none of this is equated to anything like the Hitler Youth, (which should be noted was a paramilitary group.) The sorts of activities aren't particularly political, they have political guest speakers but other than that it's mostly just about like-minded people getting together to have fun. It's not disturbing, it's just an alarmist misinformed stance that sees it as such.lowing wrote:
Question still stand though, what the fuck is Norway doing with holding political camps for children? What is that all about in such a proud democracy?
Oh he we go = shifting goal posts and a strawman argument.lowing wrote:
lol what do ya mean by that? You claim so sort of govt. bias to churches by saying churches get tax breaks from the govt. Ok fine, are they they only religion in the US to get them or not? If not, where is the bias?AussieReaper wrote:
Or here we go.lowing wrote:
JUST churches, or do Mosques and Synagogues get them as well?
Tell ya what, you can just take the easy road, and acknowledge that the Norwegian govt. sponsors political training camps for its youth and the US doesn't, and we will just move on.
this is true but as has been pointed out, none of them in the US is sponsored by the govt. Is Norway's political camp govt. sponsored?Ty wrote:
From what I understand the camps are organised by youth political groups, (i.e. not the party itself,) and they are for teenagers and young adults rather than children. There are political youth groups everywhere, we have them here in NZ, in America there and the Young Democrats of America group and the Young Republican National Federation - and others I'm sure. They all have their own gatherings and meetings, none of this is equated to anything like the Hitler Youth, (which should be noted was a paramilitary group.) The sorts of activities aren't particularly political, they have political guest speakers but other than that it's mostly just about like-minded people getting together to have fun. It's not disturbing, it's just an alarmist misinformed stance that sees it as such.lowing wrote:
Question still stand though, what the fuck is Norway doing with holding political camps for children? What is that all about in such a proud democracy?
Meanwhile in the US, (and in other places,) you get Bible Camps where young impressionable children are targeted to be actually brainwashed. I doubt Beck has a problem with that though.
the camp was not government sponsored, it was funded by the youth division of the Norwegian labour partylowing wrote:
I am genius enough to understand that NONE of the examples you gave are govt. sponsored.AussieReaper wrote:
Hey genius, they teach the children about democracy at those camps. Even in the US you will find these camps. The Tea Party has also held a few, Beck has even donanted towards them. Look up Tea Party Summer Camp.lowing wrote:
Question still stand though, what the fuck is Norway doing with holding political camps for children? What is that all about in such a proud democracy?
And just cause I know you think it's a political thing, there are plenty of bible camps in the US I'm sure you're absolutely in favour for.
Last edited by DUnlimited (2011-07-28 17:29:30)
Hmmm, can't find anything wrong with those.AussieReaper wrote:
1. America is good.
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.
12 Values: Honesty, Reverence, Hope, Thrift, Humility, Charity, Sincerity, Moderation, Hard Work, Courage, Personal Responsibility, and Gratitude.
http://www.meetup.com/tampa912/
ok well then if it ISN'T just churches given taxes breaks in the US, then there really is no relevancy to your argument that the govt. sponsors churches, as if they get some sort of special treatment not afforded to other religions then is there?AussieReaper wrote:
Oh he we go = shifting goal posts and a strawman argument.lowing wrote:
lol what do ya mean by that? You claim so sort of govt. bias to churches by saying churches get tax breaks from the govt. Ok fine, are they they only religion in the US to get them or not? If not, where is the bias?AussieReaper wrote:
Or here we go.
Tell ya what, you can just take the easy road, and acknowledge that the Norwegian govt. sponsors political training camps for its youth and the US doesn't, and we will just move on.
Of course other religions get tax exempt status. I am not arguing it's only Churches of Christians...
And yes, the Norwegian govt. sponsors political camps. Many of which aren't from the party in power, since they can all do it and often act independantly of the govt. in power.
But you don't have to blur the distinction that far to see that they aren't that different to Bible Camps, which strangely you don't have any outrage for. Why? Because they aren't sponsored by the government? Odd, since they get the tax exempt status, and you know exactly which religion and Church Obama, Palin, Bachmann, ad nauseum are subscribed to.
The fact that these camps were government sponsored had zero to do with the shooting.
Last edited by lowing (2011-07-28 17:31:44)
ok thanks for the clarification. The way it was reported it sounded like some sort of govt. sponsored thing.DUnlimited wrote:
the camp was not government sponsored, it was funded by the youth division of the Norwegian labour partylowing wrote:
I am genius enough to understand that NONE of the examples you gave are govt. sponsored.AussieReaper wrote:
Hey genius, they teach the children about democracy at those camps. Even in the US you will find these camps. The Tea Party has also held a few, Beck has even donanted towards them. Look up Tea Party Summer Camp.
And just cause I know you think it's a political thing, there are plenty of bible camps in the US I'm sure you're absolutely in favour for.
Last edited by lowing (2011-07-28 17:40:12)
No. It's organised by the party's youth group, not the party. It is funded by the people who pay to attend.lowing wrote:
this is true but as has been pointed out, none of them in the US is sponsored by the govt. Is Norway's political camp govt. sponsored?Ty wrote:
From what I understand the camps are organised by youth political groups, (i.e. not the party itself,) and they are for teenagers and young adults rather than children. There are political youth groups everywhere, we have them here in NZ, in America there and the Young Democrats of America group and the Young Republican National Federation - and others I'm sure. They all have their own gatherings and meetings, none of this is equated to anything like the Hitler Youth, (which should be noted was a paramilitary group.) The sorts of activities aren't particularly political, they have political guest speakers but other than that it's mostly just about like-minded people getting together to have fun. It's not disturbing, it's just an alarmist misinformed stance that sees it as such.lowing wrote:
Question still stand though, what the fuck is Norway doing with holding political camps for children? What is that all about in such a proud democracy?
Meanwhile in the US, (and in other places,) you get Bible Camps where young impressionable children are targeted to be actually brainwashed. I doubt Beck has a problem with that though.
Actually, it has everything to do with the shooting. The guy hated liberals and what better way to convey that hatred to a government that he felt was too liberal than to carry out a mass execution of their future voter base? It's completely sick, but it does make sense, and the government link is relevant.AussieReaper wrote:
The fact that these camps were government sponsored had zero to do with the shooting.
no worries, thanks.Ty wrote:
No. It's organised by the party's youth group, not the party. It is funded by the people who pay to attend.lowing wrote:
this is true but as has been pointed out, none of them in the US is sponsored by the govt. Is Norway's political camp govt. sponsored?Ty wrote:
From what I understand the camps are organised by youth political groups, (i.e. not the party itself,) and they are for teenagers and young adults rather than children. There are political youth groups everywhere, we have them here in NZ, in America there and the Young Democrats of America group and the Young Republican National Federation - and others I'm sure. They all have their own gatherings and meetings, none of this is equated to anything like the Hitler Youth, (which should be noted was a paramilitary group.) The sorts of activities aren't particularly political, they have political guest speakers but other than that it's mostly just about like-minded people getting together to have fun. It's not disturbing, it's just an alarmist misinformed stance that sees it as such.
Meanwhile in the US, (and in other places,) you get Bible Camps where young impressionable children are targeted to be actually brainwashed. I doubt Beck has a problem with that though.
Edit: Uh, what DUnlimited said. I'm slow.
You can, but it's poor taste to throw out that opinion so soon after the tragedy, imo.lowing wrote:
Why? Can you not support an ideal without supporting an action?
Last edited by Jenspm (2011-07-28 17:40:02)
That might be true, but it hardly is reason enough to label "him/her cunt of the week" in light of the guy that committed the murdersJenspm wrote:
You can, but it's poor taste to throw out that opinion so soon after the tragedy, imo.lowing wrote:
Why? Can you not support an ideal without supporting an action?
Fair call there. Maybe downgrade it to "tactless testicle of the week".lowing wrote:
That might be true, but it hardly is reason enough to label "him/her cunt of the week" in light of the guy that committed the murdersJenspm wrote:
You can, but it's poor taste to throw out that opinion so soon after the tragedy, imo.lowing wrote:
Why? Can you not support an ideal without supporting an action?
I take considerable objections toStingray24 wrote:
Hmmm, can't find anything wrong with those.AussieReaper wrote:
1. America is good.
2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.
12 Values: Honesty, Reverence, Hope, Thrift, Humility, Charity, Sincerity, Moderation, Hard Work, Courage, Personal Responsibility, and Gratitude.
http://www.meetup.com/tampa912/
If you're talking about how the world actually works, this is just realistic.AussieReaper wrote:
6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
The guy hated liberals?Jay wrote:
Actually, it has everything to do with the shooting. The guy hated liberals and what better way to convey that hatred to a government that he felt was too liberal than to carry out a mass execution of their future voter base? It's completely sick, but it does make sense, and the government link is relevant.AussieReaper wrote:
The fact that these camps were government sponsored had zero to do with the shooting.
I'd rather they promote the idea of how you should be treated. That all men (and some women) are created equal.Jaekus wrote:
If you're talking about how the world actually works, this is just realistic.AussieReaper wrote:
6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
If you're talking about how you should be treated by the world, yeah, I agree.
Yeah true, as something you teach it's better to be aiming for ideals. People can figure out cynicism on their ownAussieReaper wrote:
I'd rather they promote the idea of how you should be treated. That all men (and some women) are created equal.Jaekus wrote:
If you're talking about how the world actually works, this is just realistic.AussieReaper wrote:
6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
If you're talking about how you should be treated by the world, yeah, I agree.
There's nothing about that that promotes not treating people equally, or that all men and women were not created equal. In fact, its intent is exactly the opposite of that. To not guarantee equal results means everyone is responsible for themselves and their own success in life. Everyone is afforded an equal opportunity...not an equal outcome from that opportunity.Jaekus wrote:
Yeah true, as something you teach it's better to be aiming for ideals. People can figure out cynicism on their ownAussieReaper wrote:
I'd rather they promote the idea of how you should be treated. That all men (and some women) are created equal.Jaekus wrote:
If you're talking about how the world actually works, this is just realistic.
If you're talking about how you should be treated by the world, yeah, I agree.
Again, what data set are you basing that claim upon? I've known hundreds of people in my life who have attended a religious camp as a kid. None of them went unwillingly. Many of them had to convince their parents to let them go. None of them are zombified evangelicals today, nor were they then.AussieReaper wrote:
The reason they are at those camps is cause the parents sent them.
But that the parents want them to share the same belief system is totally not brainwashing.
Totally.