You are pathetic. Stick to your principles Shocking. Don't let this guy shake your belief that all human life is sacred and worth something. Be happy that he will do his 21 years and rejoin society just like you wish him to do.Shocking wrote:
It's the sort of situation where reinstating the death penalty for this specific case doesn't sound like such a bad idea... sending him to prison is just going to get him what he wants; attention. For life.
Last edited by lowing (2011-07-23 18:02:29)
I am not talking about Norway, I am talking about you and your sudden switch to endorsing the death penalty. Did you watch that video, those were hard core criminals, not petty thieves.Shocking wrote:
I very much doubt the Norwegians are going to let him get off with 21 years in a minimum security, open prison.
Last edited by lowing (2011-07-23 18:10:29)
Well even with this guy, Norway has a way lower murder rate than the US.lowing wrote:
So tell me, just how many of you proud socialists are happy with the justice this guy is going to face? Still proud?
not the question...I am addressing your principles now. Shocking already expressed a desire to see this guy REALLY pay for his crime. How about the rest of you soft hearted, every life is sacred folks? Care to rehab this guy?Doctor Strangelove wrote:
Well even with this guy, Norway has a way lower murder rate than the US.lowing wrote:
So tell me, just how many of you proud socialists are happy with the justice this guy is going to face? Still proud?
and the inquisitions!Beduin wrote:
its the teaching of Jesus (pbuh). just look at the crusaders and this guy!
Having been in a disaster zone recently I know how hectic it gets but it's foolish to suggest that nothing could have been done better, particularly in this case. I'm not sure how long it takes to shoot dead over 80 fleeing people but I get the impression that there could have been some measures to improve the response to it. No doubt this bloke Breivik planned his attack that the bomb would distract from his rampage, he was systematic and calculating, but I get the feeling that had such an attack occurred in the US the response would have been quicker and more effective. That's not to speak ill of Norway and the authorities there it just reflects that they weren't prepared for it - which is fair enough, it was completely unexpected.Sturgeon wrote:
Again with the slow response time, it happened 2 hours after a huge bomb blast in the capital, the police were looking for two more bombs, they aren't going to drop their searches and travel an hour away to answer to unconfirmed reports of a shooter, imagine how hectic it was...
Last edited by Shocking (2011-07-23 18:26:06)
well, I can't knock you for honesty.Ty wrote:
Having been in a disaster zone recently I know how hectic it gets but it's foolish to suggest that nothing could have been done better, particularly in this case. I'm not sure how long it takes to shoot dead over 80 fleeing people but I get the impression that there could have been some measures to improve the response to it. No doubt this bloke Breivik planned his attack that the bomb would distract from his rampage, he was systematic and calculating, but I get the feeling that had such an attack occurred in the US the response would have been quicker and more effective. That's not to speak ill of Norway and the authorities there it just reflects that they weren't prepared for it - which is fair enough, it was completely unexpected.Sturgeon wrote:
Again with the slow response time, it happened 2 hours after a huge bomb blast in the capital, the police were looking for two more bombs, they aren't going to drop their searches and travel an hour away to answer to unconfirmed reports of a shooter, imagine how hectic it was...
On the prison system - look, it wasn't designed with people like this in mind. Nor should it have to be. This is unprecedented, for someone to do something like this and then be detained. Also for him not to be declared insane, which I'm sure he wont be; he has called his own attacks 'atrocious but necessary', the guy is sane which is probably the most scary part. So yeah, the Norwegian justice system is unprepared for this sort of thing. Would be the same situation here and in a great many other places.
I would add that I'm never for the death penalty, not on the basis of the sanctity of human life but because I think it's unethical and wrong for a state to kill someone. However I'm completely okay for a citizen to take it upon themselves to off someone like Breivik if they're willing to accept the consequences. A double standard maybe but one I'm comfortable with.
In all the discussions regarding the death penalty I never said making sure the guilty is truly guilty was not a must. Still, I I got opposed because of the "every life is sacred" bullshit, and the "death penalty is murder making you no better than the guilty person", and "2 wrongs don't make a right", and "executing the guilty will not bring back the dead victim".Shocking wrote:
The issue with people being against the death penalty isn't one of principles (most of the time... some very extreme cases believe it's NEVER justified) but usually focuses on the possibility of an innocent person being killed because of it... so the sentence was removed. Still, that's unnecessary to me, you could adjust the criteria to only include acts of violence in which you're absolutely 100% sure of someones guilt. Like in the case with Jeffrey Dahmer where you find the chopped up bodies in his apartment, or this sort of thing where the man gets caught in the act and (happily) admits he did it.
I feel it's a miscarriage of justice when these people get prison sentences. Locking them up for life is useless, just get rid of them already. We have governments declare war on their enemies, which really is just sentencing a group of people to death. Why can't we apply the sentence individually? It's backwards.
On the contrary, there's nothing ethical and right about keeping him alive. There's no justice in that.Ty wrote:
I would add that I'm never for the death penalty, not on the basis of the sanctity of human life but because I think it's unethical and wrong for a state to kill someone. However I'm completely okay for a citizen to take it upon themselves to off someone like Breivik if they're willing to accept the consequences. A double standard maybe but one I'm comfortable with.
Yes lowing, every single person here has exactly the same views on imprisonment and what should happen to this man. You are the last bastion of freedom and justice in this world. It's you against the world lowing!lowing wrote:
So does this guy deserve to die for his crime, or one of those great 21 year vacation prisons you all seem to love and applaud?
Last edited by Little BaBy JESUS (2011-07-23 18:52:45)
We might be, but that is avoiding the question I asked. Do you support "REHABBING" this guy or should he die for his crime?Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
If they end up putting him in the general prison populace (which I doubt they will) then I would say it is highly likely he'd be killed or mutilated fairly early on.Yes lowing, every single person here has exactly the same views on imprisonment and what should happen to this man. You are the last bastion of freedom and justice in this world. It's you against the world lowing!lowing wrote:
So does this guy deserve to die for his crime, or one of those great 21 year vacation prisons you all seem to love and applaud?
cant happen, it has been posted here that the max a person spends in jail for murder is 21 years. Apparently that is the law.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
I think he should be put in a maximum security gaol until he dies. However long that takes.
I stated what I wanted to happen, not what was legally possible. To be honest, the law restricting a gaol sentence to 21 years should be changed for cases like this.lowing wrote:
cant happen, it has been posted here that the max a person spends in jail for murder is 21 years. Apparently that is the law.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
I think he should be put in a maximum security gaol until he dies. However long that takes.
Last edited by Little BaBy JESUS (2011-07-23 19:30:34)
So to you assaulting 3 children deserves a greater punishment than murdering 35 people?m3thod wrote:
while dennis ferguson lives scott free
some justice you have down there
Last edited by Little BaBy JESUS (2011-07-23 19:35:20)
think of the children!Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
So to you assaulting 3 children deserves a greater punishment than murdering 35 people?m3thod wrote:
while dennis ferguson lives scott free
some justice you have down there
Then we agree. Mostly. I'm saying I don't agree with the state killing him but I would fully support someone taking it upon themselves to do it. The end result is a dead Breivik either way. It speaks to my own, (possibly warped,) sense of justice and human nature. I don't feel that an execution by the state is justice. It draws out everything for the victims of the crime and their families as well as the perpetrator and the end result is just a person being respectfully and humanely put to sleep. There have been psychological studies that suggest that this sort of thing provides no closure to the victims anyway - and it's not meant to, these cases are always "the state versus [whoever]" and by design keeps the victims out of the process. It's difficult for me to explain without coming accross as a psychopath but really I guess it boils down to vengeance which, like it or not, is a fundamental part of human nature. While state execution is systematic and strives to be humane it actually lacks any humanity. Like it or not, humanity can be cruel and it is passionate and it doesn't equate an institution acting systematically to a true sense of justice.Shocking wrote:
On the contrary, there's nothing ethical and right about keeping him alive. There's no justice in that.Ty wrote:
I would add that I'm never for the death penalty, not on the basis of the sanctity of human life but because I think it's unethical and wrong for a state to kill someone. However I'm completely okay for a citizen to take it upon themselves to off someone like Breivik if they're willing to accept the consequences. A double standard maybe but one I'm comfortable with.
That is masonic regalia unless I'm mistaken...menzo wrote:
