Makes you wonder why there is one in the first placeKmar wrote:
How many times? 70 something. Calling it a limit or ceiling is a joke to begin with.
inane little opines
Dog and pony. Political pandering.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
It wouldn't be Armageddon... A lot of people would lose a lot of money in an instant but for your average American life would go on without much change. Maybe higher prices, but nothing drastic. There won't be zombies knocking on your door.Commie Killer wrote:
Yeah. System is honestly a little too fucked at the moment. Decades of neglect. Hitting the reset would be painful, but honestly, I don't see another way. We can keep pushing it off but when it inevitably happens its gonna just end up being worse.Kmar wrote:
The entire world economy would "take a hit" if the US defaults.China wouldn't be too happy. Neither would a lot of other countries. They are invested in us. Probably like domino's falling. I'm sure the RAND group or some other think-tank has done a few studies.Jaekus wrote:
Does anyone know what what would happen if the US declared bankruptcy though? Being the largest economy and all...I'm not ATG. I have none of his doomsday theories or grand conspiracies or illusions as to how I could possibly survive. I'd be fucked up, I'm just trying to think how I could survive relatively intact.Macbeth wrote:
Well okay...
Nor do I smoke weed.
As a guess as to what would happen... world would probably get pretty violent. Probably a good number of famines. Africa would be fucked, so would South East Asia... Europe and NA would probably have a whole host of nasty social problems. South America I almost feel would do best. I honestly see it being easier now then 20 or 30 years from now when the population is larger. Less deaths. Shorter duration.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
No, it's not. Why is your default position that government is good and benevolent and necessary for a nation to function? Are you that rudderless that you feel you need leadership from above telling you how to live your life? Pretty sad.Reciprocity wrote:
they'll never academically understand, they should see and feel what happens. their concept of libertarianism and "small government" is a first world luxury.Kmar wrote:
Generally speaking I don't think people who say"let's default" really understand what would happen.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
The debt ceiling is an artificial contrivance that means nothing outside of 'scoring points' on ones political enemies. It's completely arbitrary and meaningless.Kmar wrote:
If that were the case then the debt ceiling would not need to be raised.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Paul wasn't talking about a direct default, he was talking about the fact that every nation in history has simply devalued their currency in order to pay off debt. It's not a direct default, but it largely has the same effect. I'm sure you heard the story about how Thomas Jefferson paid for the Louisiana Purchase in cash that came directly off the printing press, and was worthless from the first instant because it halved the value of American currency in one fell swoop.Kmar wrote:
lol.. We can send out worthless notes sure. In other words..."When a country is indebted to the degree that we’re indebted, the country always defaults. We will default because the debt is unsustainable," Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) said on the House floor today.
"If we don’t understand this, this default will not be because we don't send out the checks. We will send out the checks. It will be defaulted on because people will get their money back, or they will get their Social Security checks and it won't buy anything."Guess who said that. When the shoe is on the other foot. This is the OP's point.The full consequences of a default, or even the serious prospect of default, by the United States are impossible to predict and awesome to contemplate. Denigration of the full faith and credit of the United States would have substantial effects on the domestic financial markets and the value of the dollar in exchange markets. The Nation can ill afford to allow such a result. The risks, the costs, the disruptions, and the incalculable damage lead me to but one conclusion: the Senate must pass this legislation before the Congress adjourns.
The Fed via their QE1 and QE2 have been pumping trillions of dollars into the economy in order to prop up housing prices artificially. Any 'growth' we've seen over the past three years is simply inflation. They're cooking the books and pretending we're not in a recession by forcing that inflation.
Last edited by Jay (2011-07-22 05:59:49)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
There will be retirees without pensions though, mashing in the heads of zombies I could do, old people I think I'd have twinges of conscience.Jay wrote:
There won't be zombies knocking on your door.
Fuck Israel
Haven't you stated repeatedly recently that we spend far too much money on old peoples healthcare and should instead let them die?Dilbert_X wrote:
There will be retirees without pensions though, mashing in the heads of zombies I could do, old people I think I'd have twinges of conscience.Jay wrote:
There won't be zombies knocking on your door.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
For sure, I'm just squeamish about mashing peoples heads in.
Baby-boomers demanding healthcare entitlements they haven't paid for is one thing.
Default would mean taking people's poorly invested life savings from them. Pension funds own govt debt, its not just foreign countries who have lent to the govt. Might be worth remembering that when people are pressing for default.
Baby-boomers demanding healthcare entitlements they haven't paid for is one thing.
Default would mean taking people's poorly invested life savings from them. Pension funds own govt debt, its not just foreign countries who have lent to the govt. Might be worth remembering that when people are pressing for default.
Fuck Israel
I'm not advocating a default by any means. I think we need serious cuts and a redesign of social security and medicare but not at the expense of those near retirement. It's not their fault the government set up unsustainable ponzi schemes.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I don't see why those 'near retirement' should be spared.
They haven't paid nearly enough into a healthcare scheme. I don't see why I should fully fund theirs as well as properly fund my own.
Why should my generation get hammered and theirs get away, again?
Bad luck guys, the pots empty because you didn't put enough in, no entitlements for you - move along.
They haven't paid nearly enough into a healthcare scheme. I don't see why I should fully fund theirs as well as properly fund my own.
Why should my generation get hammered and theirs get away, again?
Bad luck guys, the pots empty because you didn't put enough in, no entitlements for you - move along.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2011-07-22 06:21:00)
Fuck Israel
Jay wrote:
The debt ceiling is an artificial contrivance that means nothing outside of 'scoring points' on ones political enemies. It's completely arbitrary and meaningless.Kmar wrote:
If that were the case then the debt ceiling would not need to be raised.
Kmar wrote:
Dog and pony. Political pandering.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Jay wrote:
Paul wasn't talking about a direct default, he was talking about the fact that every nation in history has simply devalued their currency in order to pay off debt. It's not a direct default, but it largely has the same effect. I'm sure you heard the story about how Thomas Jefferson paid for the Louisiana Purchase in cash that came directly off the printing press, and was worthless from the first instant because it halved the value of American currency in one fell swoop.Kmar wrote:
lol.. We can send out worthless notes sure. In other words..."When a country is indebted to the degree that we’re indebted, the country always defaults. We will default because the debt is unsustainable," Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) said on the House floor today.
"If we don’t understand this, this default will not be because we don't send out the checks. We will send out the checks. It will be defaulted on because people will get their money back, or they will get their Social Security checks and it won't buy anything."Guess who said that. When the shoe is on the other foot. This is the OP's point.The full consequences of a default, or even the serious prospect of default, by the United States are impossible to predict and awesome to contemplate. Denigration of the full faith and credit of the United States would have substantial effects on the domestic financial markets and the value of the dollar in exchange markets. The Nation can ill afford to allow such a result. The risks, the costs, the disruptions, and the incalculable damage lead me to but one conclusion: the Senate must pass this legislation before the Congress adjourns.
The Fed via their QE1 and QE2 have been pumping trillions of dollars into the economy in order to prop up housing prices artificially. Any 'growth' we've seen over the past three years is simply inflation. They're cooking the books and pretending we're not in a recession by forcing that inflation.
Try to keep up Jay.Kmar wrote:
Debtors are the people that owe money.. but yes, I know what you are saying. As a matter of technicality you're right. The money will be devalued though. Ultimately it's a loss for both the creditors (holding the notes) and those receiving entitlements. We could also have our credit rating downgraded which would be very very bad.FEOS wrote:
Perhaps you misunderstand. I'm all for raising the debt limit. I fully grasp that if it's not done, the economic damage will be massive. Based on the WSJ article you posted, it would likely put us back into recession.
I just take issue with the use of the term "default," as that implies the debtors will not be paid. They will. It's the rest of the government programs that will receive no funding.
As far as housing growth.. that is best measured by looking at buying trends.
Lol
Xbone Stormsurgezz
So for a matter of pure self interest, will the USD drop on/after August 2nd? From what I'm reading there's no way it will climb AFAIK.
Last edited by Jaekus (2011-07-22 08:38:05)
i blame ron paul for all this shit
Tu Stultus Es
Because he wants fiscal sanity and a government that doesn't monkey with the economy? Ok.eleven bravo wrote:
i blame ron paul for all this shit
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
lowing answer
Tu Stultus Es
Hardly. You thinks its coolsauce that the government manipulated the economy in an attempt to increase home ownership for political reasons? They created this mess. Now they're trying their damndest to reinflate the bubble.eleven bravo wrote:
lowing answer
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
hardly my dick. i just said I dont like ron paul and you go off on a very lowingesque tangent about fiscal sanity and monkey government. go fuck yourself.
Tu Stultus Es
Well, why do you dislike Paul?eleven bravo wrote:
hardly my dick. i just said I dont like ron paul and you go off on a very lowingesque tangent about fiscal sanity and monkey government. go fuck yourself.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
because he looks like he has bad breath
Tu Stultus Es
and that's how everyone should be judgedeleven bravo wrote:
because he looks like he has bad breath
west-phoenix-az wrote:
and that's how everyone should be judgedeleven bravo wrote:
because he looks like he has bad breath
Tu Stultus Es
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
I think you misunderstood my post. Life wouldn't exactly go on "without much change" though. Life would get pretty hard.Jay wrote:
It wouldn't be Armageddon... A lot of people would lose a lot of money in an instant but for your average American life would go on without much change. Maybe higher prices, but nothing drastic. There won't be zombies knocking on your door.Commie Killer wrote:
Yeah. System is honestly a little too fucked at the moment. Decades of neglect. Hitting the reset would be painful, but honestly, I don't see another way. We can keep pushing it off but when it inevitably happens its gonna just end up being worse.Kmar wrote:
The entire world economy would "take a hit" if the US defaults.China wouldn't be too happy. Neither would a lot of other countries. They are invested in us. Probably like domino's falling. I'm sure the RAND group or some other think-tank has done a few studies.Jaekus wrote:
Does anyone know what what would happen if the US declared bankruptcy though? Being the largest economy and all...I'm not ATG. I have none of his doomsday theories or grand conspiracies or illusions as to how I could possibly survive. I'd be fucked up, I'm just trying to think how I could survive relatively intact.Macbeth wrote:
Well okay...
Nor do I smoke weed.
As a guess as to what would happen... world would probably get pretty violent. Probably a good number of famines. Africa would be fucked, so would South East Asia... Europe and NA would probably have a whole host of nasty social problems. South America I almost feel would do best. I honestly see it being easier now then 20 or 30 years from now when the population is larger. Less deaths. Shorter duration.