BF2S Forums The Huge WW2 Discussion Thread

11 Bravo wrote:

Jay wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

they shot down planes over the US?

Does it matter where they shot down our planes?

if we left our planes here then no problem, eh?

So we should just stop trading with the rest of the world? Keep everyone locked up safe and secure within our own borders?

Shahter wrote:

Trotskygrad wrote:

Shahter wrote:

he couldn't. stalin would stab him in the back. hitler's diplomatic maneuvers between ussr and the west were actually very good and the timing, at least with regards to his attack on ussr, was just about perfect - several more months and soviet army would have finished being moved and would be ready to receive on the western border, while all the undustry stalin build up for war would've been evacuated - or ready to be evacuated - east. blitz krieg against ussr wouldn't have been possible at all. as it happened, nazies caught ussr by surprise and all the regrouping and evacuation had to be done on the fly. that's the only reason nazies got as far as they did.

well arguably Nazi Germany could've finished up the war with britain a lot earlier if he focused on bombing military targets in the battle of britain.

depends, it's the what-if game all over again.

as i said, stalin was on the move. by focusing in britain, hitler would allow stalin to finish fortifying the new western border of ussr. plus, you are forgetting the climate: blitz krieg cannot happen in autumn in russia, because nothing can advance when all the roads turn into mud - that's another coupla months for soviets to prepare. as i said, hitler's timing was perfect, it's just that ussr turned out too be too much for him - still, it was a pretty close call.

you sure stalin didn't want to expand further into eastern europe before settling on a border?

Well where do you draw the line between just war and needless galavanting in other nations' affairs?

Shocking wrote:

Battle of Britain was supposed to be the end of the UK, it wasn't. That really fucked up Hitler's plan, he was betting it on that one moment really.

this has been debated to death, and nobody can draw any definitive conclusion. as i said, the window of opportunity for hitler to attack ussr was very small - it must've happened precisely when most of the soviet army was moving from so called "old stalin line" - a series of fortified positions deep into russian territory - to a new one on the newly negotiated (molotov-ribbentrop pact) western border. hitler couldn't have waited any longer - otherwise ussr would've been ready to receive - he crippled the britain as bad as he could and went against ussr.

Last edited by Shahter (2011-06-24 16:47:26)

11 Bravo wrote:

Jay wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

if we left our planes here then no problem, eh?

So we should just stop trading with the rest of the world? Keep everyone locked up safe and secure within our own borders?

no.  trade is cool.  we could protect our ships ofc.  doesnt mean invading a country.  works for brazil.

So you would've just let Germany sink all the ships they wanted as long as it meant us not sending troops to Europe. Brilliant.

11 Bravo wrote:

Jay wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

no.  trade is cool.  we could protect our ships ofc.  doesnt mean invading a country.  works for brazil.

So you would've just let Germany sink all the ships they wanted as long as it meant us not sending troops to Europe. Brilliant.

did you not read?

Protecting our ships means sinking u-boats. That's an act of war in itself. Stop being such a dumb shit.

11 Bravo wrote:

Jay wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

did you not read?

Protecting our ships means sinking u-boats. That's an act of war in itself. Stop being such a dumb shit.

im am getting a little sick of your contant insults in every post.  it still doesnt mean we have to declare war or invade all of europe.

How else do you fight a war? If you're tired of my insults, stop earning them. Between you and war man, this thread is a never ending series of facepalms.

WW2 is arguably the best thing that ever happened to the US.

m3thod wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Jay wrote:

How else do you fight a war? If you're tired of my insults, stop earning them. Between you and war man, this thread is a never ending series of facepalms.

thats my point.  you can protect your ships and not fight a war by inavding all of europe.

The process of protecting your ships including the tit for tat destruction of naval vessels both military and commercial would eventually lead to full scale war anyway. where would it stop? i doubt there would be any gentleman's 'agreement' in place.  One ship with a few hundred civilian passengers purposely targeted and sent to the depths would mean the gloves were off.

we're not talk Somali pirates here.

they were attacking our ships because we were supplying england, correct?

Last edited by 11 Bravo (2011-06-24 15:55:34)

so if we were trading bananas with brazil they wouldnt give a toss.  thats my point.

Trotskygrad wrote:

you sure stalin didn't want to expand further into eastern europe before settling on a border?

nothing can be said "for sure" when it's a history being discussed. even less can be said for sure when it's as touchy a subject as ww2. most historians agree though that soviet army immediately prior to the war was gearing more towards offensive operations. that doesn't necessarily mean the goal was to expand - you know, communist propaganda, collectivization and stuff, all that's pretty mean business, and stalin had already got a huge piece off of hitler's cake by that time. also, soviets firmly believed that the best defense is a good offence. the grand plan was, iirc, to create a diversion in romania and then launch a massive attack against hitler's forces in poland. would stalin want to expand then? i dunno. maybe. probably even. still, according to russian historians, there's still a lot of info sitting in archives and not available - the info without which it's impossible to tell if there was a plan to actively expand.

Shocking wrote:

But really now participating in the war is the best thing you could've possibly done. Economically and politically.

maybe

uh what shahter? okay.

Wasn't Roosevelt trying to find an excuse to jump into WW2? Germany declaring war was perfect.