BF2S Forums Dumb kid gets whats coming to him, Man charged with murder.

Jaekus wrote:

What question was that? It can't have been important if you've only brought it to my attention now.

I've already answered why it is premeditated numerous times. Lying in wait for a week has nothing to do with it, it's ridiculous as it does not apply in this situation yet you seem to use this shaky angle because it's the best you can do, and you're too stubborn to admit you are wrong.

Oh well, no skin off my nose.

Also, how do you know he was full of emotion? His actions of walking, getting a gun, walking, lean down, shooting is all pretty calculated. It wasn't like he just started firing bullets and screaming. His manner and actions betray his intent.

Last edited by lowing (2011-05-29 23:55:23)

Premeditated murder is the crime of wrongfully causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension.[1] State laws in the United States vary as to definitions of "premeditation." In some states, premeditation may be construed as taking place mere seconds before the murder.

Premeditated murder is the crime of wrongfully causing the death of another human being (also known as murder) after rationally considering the timing or method of doing so, in order to either increase the likelihood of success, or to evade detection or apprehension.[1] State laws in the United States vary as to definitions of "premeditation." In some states, premeditation may be construed as taking place mere seconds before the murder.

• He wrongfully caused the death of the kid.
• He considered the method of doing so, by getting a second gun.
• He increased the likelihood of success by shooting the kid multiple times.
• "Premeditation may be construed as taking place mere seconds before the murder" - Clearly this all happened prior to the kid's death.

First-degree murder is the most serious form of murder. In most states, it is categorized as "deliberate" - that is, the defendant made a clear-headed decision to kill the victim; "premeditated"

the defendant actually thought about the killing before it occurred (the period for this can be very brief); and "with malice"- doing a harmful act without just cause or legal excuse.

Jaekus wrote:

I've been over this before, but again some people don't seem to be paying attention...

If he had used the gun he shot the first bullet with, second degree at most, and only if he shot the kid when walking back into the store.
Because he went and got another gun, this betrays his intention, and therefore it is premeditated.

First-degree murder is the most serious form of murder. In most states, it is categorized as "deliberate" - that is, the defendant made a clear-headed decision to kill the victim; "premeditated"

He got a second gun. That was a decision that was clear headed. If it was irrational he would have used the gun he already held.

the defendant actually thought about the killing before it occurred (the period for this can be very brief); and "with malice"- doing a harmful act without just cause or legal excuse.

He got the gun, walked over to where the now defenceless kid is still on the ground (it can no longer be self defence as the kid was still on the ground and he has passed by him twice to prove this point - the CCTV footage would show otherwise, if it were the case) and he leant down and shot him multiple times - betraying malicious intent.

So basically, you've confirmed my argument.

Nice work.

Last edited by lowing (2011-05-30 01:53:05)

Jaekus wrote:

No, it does not fit exactly. You're glossing over some important facts, ones I've mentioned time and time again.

If you want an example, just look at the OP. The guy we are talking about was convicted of first degree murder. Another fact you're glossing over. Seems to be your angle on the forums: don't like the facts, don't bother mentioning them. Makes your arguments sketchy though.

I'll wait for your concession now.

Last edited by lowing (2011-05-30 02:27:24)

lowing wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

No, it does not fit exactly. You're glossing over some important facts, ones I've mentioned time and time again.

If you want an example, just look at the OP. The guy we are talking about was convicted of first degree murder. Another fact you're glossing over. Seems to be your angle on the forums: don't like the facts, don't bother mentioning them. Makes your arguments sketchy though.

I'll wait for your concession now.

I have an argument, I have provided reasoning for my argument and gave examples to support it. All I ask of you is to do the same thing.  Now since you claim that a cheating wife being killed in bed with her lover by her husband is a prime example of first degree murder, then cite a case. Should be easy to choose from since it is not exactly a rarity.  If you can give an example of a first degree murder charge that fits the scenario in the OP then cite an example. Using the OP as your example is lame ass since it is the one in question, but it would appear you have little choice.


Give me one example of first degree murder in the description of first degree murder, that fits the OP and you have my concession.

Last edited by Nic (2011-05-30 19:38:49)

Spark wrote:

Lowing I have no idea what you're doing here. The definitions are right there and they're pretty obvious. I can see why people would not want to argue with you when you constantly ignore the definitions.

tuckergustav wrote:

According to the following definitions(which have been very simplified) and examples I think 2nd Degree fits best...

Interesting to know that the kid who got away could be charged with 1st Degree murder. hmm

In most states, first-degree murder is defined as an unlawful killing that is both willful and premeditated, meaning that it was committed after planning or "lying in wait" for the victim.

For example, Dan comes home to find his wife in bed with Victor. Three days later, Dan waits behind a tree near Victor's front door. When Victor comes out of the house, Dan shoots and kills him.

Most states also adhere to a legal concept known as the "felony murder rule," under which a person commits first-degree murder if any death (even an accidental one) results from the commission of certain violent felonies -- usually arson, burglary, kidnapping, rape, and robbery.

For example, Dan and Connie rob Victor's liquor store, but as they are fleeing, Victor shoots and kills Dan. Under the felony murder rule, Connie can be charged with first-degree murder for Dan's death.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/ … egree.html

Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion" or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life. Second-degree murder may best be viewed as the middle ground between first-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter.

For example, Dan comes home to find his wife in bed with Victor. At a stoplight the next day, Dan sees Victor riding in the passenger seat of a nearby car. Dan pulls out a gun and fires three shots into the car, missing Victor but killing the driver of the car.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/ … egree.html

Voluntary manslaughter is commonly defined as an intentional killing in which the offender had no prior intent to kill, such as a killing that occurs in the "heat of passion." The circumstances leading to the killing must be the kind that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed; otherwise, the killing may be charged as a first-degree or second-degree murder.

For example, Dan comes home to find his wife in bed with Victor. In the heat of the moment, Dan picks up a golf club from next to the bed and strikes Victor in the head, killing him instantly.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/ … ntary.html

eleven bravo wrote:

everybodys a legal expert