aren't they two seperate government institutions? wouldn't it be cheaper for them to be covered under one umbrella? btw how much do you pay for health insurance?Jay wrote:
Adding more bureaucracy would save us money?Cybargs wrote:
you know it'd be cheaper for you guys to shift to public primary health care on a federal level than have medicare and medicaid right? youd save a lot of money on bureaucracy alone.Jay wrote:
We didn't have social security and medicare bankrupting us.
They have completely different functions.Cybargs wrote:
aren't they two seperate government institutions? wouldn't it be cheaper for them to be covered under one umbrella? btw how much do you pay for health insurance?Jay wrote:
Adding more bureaucracy would save us money?Cybargs wrote:
you know it'd be cheaper for you guys to shift to public primary health care on a federal level than have medicare and medicaid right? youd save a lot of money on bureaucracy alone.
i pay around 500 a year for private and 0 for public. here its 1.5% of your income as health insurance levy which is peanuts when you think about it.Jay wrote:
They have completely different functions.Cybargs wrote:
aren't they two seperate government institutions? wouldn't it be cheaper for them to be covered under one umbrella? btw how much do you pay for health insurance?Jay wrote:
Adding more bureaucracy would save us money?
$439/month for my wife and I combined.
Congratulations, you're also a leach collecting welfare. My own health insurance is about 2.5% of my annual income, big fucking deal.Cybargs wrote:
i pay around 500 a year for private and 0 for public. here its 1.5% of your income as health insurance levy which is peanuts when you think about it.Jay wrote:
They have completely different functions.Cybargs wrote:
aren't they two seperate government institutions? wouldn't it be cheaper for them to be covered under one umbrella? btw how much do you pay for health insurance?
$439/month for my wife and I combined.
Yeah but somehow all other large countries like Japan, Germany, UK, France etc all are able to provide national health insurance. You realize i only get welfare because I'm a student right? Everybody gets it here in Aussieland, were just not the kind of country that likes to see people racking up 50k debt before their 25th birthday. For what we put into taxes vs services we get, were leagues ahead of you. You pay what, 40% in taxes and what do you get? practically nothing.Jay wrote:
Congratulations, you're also a leach collecting welfare. My own health insurance is about 2.5% of my annual income, big fucking deal.Cybargs wrote:
i pay around 500 a year for private and 0 for public. here its 1.5% of your income as health insurance levy which is peanuts when you think about it.Jay wrote:
They have completely different functions.
$439/month for my wife and I combined.
Please stop trying to tell me or any other American that your system is better. Your entire COUNTRY has a population comparable to my STATE.
They're all broke. Are you daft? Socialism is not sustainable.Cybargs wrote:
Yeah but somehow all other large countries like Japan, Germany, UK, France etc all are able to provide national health insurance. You realize i only get welfare because I'm a student right? Everybody gets it here in Aussieland, were just not the kind of country that likes to see people racking up 50k debt before their 25th birthday. For what we put into taxes vs services we get, were leagues ahead of you. You pay what, 40% in taxes and what do you get? practically nothing.Jay wrote:
Congratulations, you're also a leach collecting welfare. My own health insurance is about 2.5% of my annual income, big fucking deal.Cybargs wrote:
i pay around 500 a year for private and 0 for public. here its 1.5% of your income as health insurance levy which is peanuts when you think about it.
Please stop trying to tell me or any other American that your system is better. Your entire COUNTRY has a population comparable to my STATE.
Yeah they're all broke because they have socialized medicine right? Pah-leeze. Somehow your national debt stands at 16 trillion yet you guys don't have NHI. top. lel.Jay wrote:
They're all broke. Are you daft? Socialism is not sustainable.Cybargs wrote:
Yeah but somehow all other large countries like Japan, Germany, UK, France etc all are able to provide national health insurance. You realize i only get welfare because I'm a student right? Everybody gets it here in Aussieland, were just not the kind of country that likes to see people racking up 50k debt before their 25th birthday. For what we put into taxes vs services we get, were leagues ahead of you. You pay what, 40% in taxes and what do you get? practically nothing.Jay wrote:
Congratulations, you're also a leach collecting welfare. My own health insurance is about 2.5% of my annual income, big fucking deal.
Please stop trying to tell me or any other American that your system is better. Your entire COUNTRY has a population comparable to my STATE.
I pay 23% in taxes.
Why does anyone ever bother to converse with you? You're about equal to warman in the brains department. Seriously, I thought you Asian kids were supposed to be smart. So much for stereotypes.Cybargs wrote:
Yeah they're all broke because they have socialized medicine right? Pah-leeze. Somehow your national debt stands at 16 trillion yet you guys don't have NHI. top. lel.Jay wrote:
They're all broke. Are you daft? Socialism is not sustainable.Cybargs wrote:
Yeah but somehow all other large countries like Japan, Germany, UK, France etc all are able to provide national health insurance. You realize i only get welfare because I'm a student right? Everybody gets it here in Aussieland, were just not the kind of country that likes to see people racking up 50k debt before their 25th birthday. For what we put into taxes vs services we get, were leagues ahead of you. You pay what, 40% in taxes and what do you get? practically nothing.
I pay 23% in taxes.
you personally checked them all or smthng?Jay wrote:
There isn't a single government program in America that runs efficiently. Not one.
I never even harped on about insurance companies and you just went for a huge tirade, I was going for the economy of scale thing. Yeah American health care is so good that theres millions of euros flying over to get the level of care. No shit rich ass people would pay top dollar for the best surgeon in the world, no MATTER where you are.Jay wrote:
Why does anyone ever bother to converse with you? You're about equal to warman in the brains department. Seriously, I thought you Asian kids were supposed to be smart. So much for stereotypes.Cybargs wrote:
Yeah they're all broke because they have socialized medicine right? Pah-leeze. Somehow your national debt stands at 16 trillion yet you guys don't have NHI. top. lel.Jay wrote:
They're all broke. Are you daft? Socialism is not sustainable.
I pay 23% in taxes.
Americans. Do. Not. Want. To. Pay. Higher. Taxes. Understand? Rather simple concept. There isn't a single government program in America that runs efficiently. Not one. Our healthcare costs are high because of government, not because some greedy asshole insurance company is trying to screw over Americans. Insurance companies make their money by collecting premiums and investing that money in short term securities. On average, they directly make a 4% profit on the premiums they collect, much lower than just about every other business in the world.
Instead of turning our doctors into a lazy civil servant force that spends more time watching the clock than actually working, ours are private. They get paid well and the high pay tends to attract better doctors. There's a reason that rich people travel from all over the world to receive medical care in America: we are the absolute best at elective surgeries, cutting edge cancer treatments and other specialized forms of care. I don't begrudge doctors their relatively high pay as they perform an important service and they deserve it. They make more than your average lawyer, but a fraction of what stock brokers make. But doctor pay isn't driving the high costs of health care either. So what is?
Well, its our government and the regulations they've enacted in order to drive down the costs of health care. Funny, right? Backfired tremendously. The government created a billing schedule for Medicare/Medicaid that said 'we will pay x dollars for this treatment, and y dollars for this treatment'. Insurance companies, in turn, thought that was a great idea and adopted the exact same billing schedules. So you know what industry has exploded and matches the growth rate in health care costs? The health care compliance industry. There's a whole new industry of people whose entire function is to train doctors and hospitals to maximize the money they take in by exploiting the billing schedule. They teach doctors and hospitals to include unnecessary treatments on bills. Here's an example, I went to the doctor about three weeks ago because I had the flu and wanted something to knock it out. New doctor, never met him before, I chose him because he was highly rated and within walking distance of my apartment. So what does the guy do? He pokes and prods me, finds a tender spot in my abdomen and says that I should get an ultrasound because he thinks I may have liver damage. Really dude? I'm 32 I don't do drugs and I drink maybe once a month, fuck off. If I'd accepted the treatment he probably could've billed my insurance company $800 or more for holding a probe to my abdomen for five minutes. And here's where we find what is driving health care costs up: we have medical equipment salesmen selling guys like this ultrasound machines so he can bill higher amounts to the insurance company, the doctor trying to push the unnecessary treatment, and the compliance consultant whispering in the ear of the doctor how he can use both to rip off my insurance company. But hey, the doctor has to pay his $120k/yr medical malpractice insurance coverage somehow, right?
So in the end, we have lawyers, doctors, medical equipment manufacturers, and compliance consultants working to fuck over the insurance companies and the government, and we have the government trying to control its own costs by paying way less than insurance companies do for equivalent procedures which in turn leads to doctors/hospitals raping their insured patients for all they can get away with to cover the losses they are taking on their government backed patients.
It's amazing, but insurance companies are actually the good guys in this story, and they're the ones that just got raped by the government with Obamacare. So no, the last thing we need is more government intrusion in the market, thanks. Now fuck off and die you twit.
You live in a nation of shysters and tax-dodgers, please give the Ayn Rand claptrap a rest now.Jay wrote:
Why does anyone ever bother to converse with you? You're about equal to warman in the brains department. Seriously, I thought you Asian kids were supposed to be smart. So much for stereotypes.Cybargs wrote:
Yeah they're all broke because they have socialized medicine right? Pah-leeze. Somehow your national debt stands at 16 trillion yet you guys don't have NHI. top. lel.Jay wrote:
They're all broke. Are you daft? Socialism is not sustainable.
I pay 23% in taxes.
Americans. Do. Not. Want. To. Pay. Higher. Taxes. Understand? Rather simple concept. There isn't a single government program in America that runs efficiently. Not one. Our healthcare costs are high because of government, not because some greedy asshole insurance company is trying to screw over Americans. Insurance companies make their money by collecting premiums and investing that money in short term securities. On average, they directly make a 4% profit on the premiums they collect, much lower than just about every other business in the world.
Instead of turning our doctors into a lazy civil servant force that spends more time watching the clock than actually working, ours are private. They get paid well and the high pay tends to attract better doctors. There's a reason that rich people travel from all over the world to receive medical care in America: we are the absolute best at elective surgeries, cutting edge cancer treatments and other specialized forms of care. I don't begrudge doctors their relatively high pay as they perform an important service and they deserve it. They make more than your average lawyer, but a fraction of what stock brokers make. But doctor pay isn't driving the high costs of health care either. So what is?
Well, its our government and the regulations they've enacted in order to drive down the costs of health care. Funny, right? Backfired tremendously. The government created a billing schedule for Medicare/Medicaid that said 'we will pay x dollars for this treatment, and y dollars for this treatment'. Insurance companies, in turn, thought that was a great idea and adopted the exact same billing schedules. So you know what industry has exploded and matches the growth rate in health care costs? The health care compliance industry. There's a whole new industry of people whose entire function is to train doctors and hospitals to maximize the money they take in by exploiting the billing schedule. They teach doctors and hospitals to include unnecessary treatments on bills. Here's an example, I went to the doctor about three weeks ago because I had the flu and wanted something to knock it out. New doctor, never met him before, I chose him because he was highly rated and within walking distance of my apartment. So what does the guy do? He pokes and prods me, finds a tender spot in my abdomen and says that I should get an ultrasound because he thinks I may have liver damage. Really dude? I'm 32 I don't do drugs and I drink maybe once a month, fuck off. If I'd accepted the treatment he probably could've billed my insurance company $800 or more for holding a probe to my abdomen for five minutes. And here's where we find what is driving health care costs up: we have medical equipment salesmen selling guys like this ultrasound machines so he can bill higher amounts to the insurance company, the doctor trying to push the unnecessary treatment, and the compliance consultant whispering in the ear of the doctor how he can use both to rip off my insurance company. But hey, the doctor has to pay his $120k/yr medical malpractice insurance coverage somehow, right?
So in the end, we have lawyers, doctors, medical equipment manufacturers, and compliance consultants working to fuck over the insurance companies and the government, and we have the government trying to control its own costs by paying way less than insurance companies do for equivalent procedures which in turn leads to doctors/hospitals raping their insured patients for all they can get away with to cover the losses they are taking on their government backed patients.
It's amazing, but insurance companies are actually the good guys in this story, and they're the ones that just got raped by the government with Obamacare. So no, the last thing we need is more government intrusion in the market, thanks. Now fuck off and die you twit.
You live in a tiny island nation where it's relatively easy to keep tabs on the bureaucrats. I live in a nation with 330,000,000 people and a perversely corrupt and inefficient government whose sole job seems to be to grow itself and leech more resources unto itself.Dilbert_X wrote:
You live in a nation of shysters and tax-dodgers, please give the Ayn Rand claptrap a rest now.Jay wrote:
Why does anyone ever bother to converse with you? You're about equal to warman in the brains department. Seriously, I thought you Asian kids were supposed to be smart. So much for stereotypes.Cybargs wrote:
Yeah they're all broke because they have socialized medicine right? Pah-leeze. Somehow your national debt stands at 16 trillion yet you guys don't have NHI. top. lel.
Americans. Do. Not. Want. To. Pay. Higher. Taxes. Understand? Rather simple concept. There isn't a single government program in America that runs efficiently. Not one. Our healthcare costs are high because of government, not because some greedy asshole insurance company is trying to screw over Americans. Insurance companies make their money by collecting premiums and investing that money in short term securities. On average, they directly make a 4% profit on the premiums they collect, much lower than just about every other business in the world.
Instead of turning our doctors into a lazy civil servant force that spends more time watching the clock than actually working, ours are private. They get paid well and the high pay tends to attract better doctors. There's a reason that rich people travel from all over the world to receive medical care in America: we are the absolute best at elective surgeries, cutting edge cancer treatments and other specialized forms of care. I don't begrudge doctors their relatively high pay as they perform an important service and they deserve it. They make more than your average lawyer, but a fraction of what stock brokers make. But doctor pay isn't driving the high costs of health care either. So what is?
Well, its our government and the regulations they've enacted in order to drive down the costs of health care. Funny, right? Backfired tremendously. The government created a billing schedule for Medicare/Medicaid that said 'we will pay x dollars for this treatment, and y dollars for this treatment'. Insurance companies, in turn, thought that was a great idea and adopted the exact same billing schedules. So you know what industry has exploded and matches the growth rate in health care costs? The health care compliance industry. There's a whole new industry of people whose entire function is to train doctors and hospitals to maximize the money they take in by exploiting the billing schedule. They teach doctors and hospitals to include unnecessary treatments on bills. Here's an example, I went to the doctor about three weeks ago because I had the flu and wanted something to knock it out. New doctor, never met him before, I chose him because he was highly rated and within walking distance of my apartment. So what does the guy do? He pokes and prods me, finds a tender spot in my abdomen and says that I should get an ultrasound because he thinks I may have liver damage. Really dude? I'm 32 I don't do drugs and I drink maybe once a month, fuck off. If I'd accepted the treatment he probably could've billed my insurance company $800 or more for holding a probe to my abdomen for five minutes. And here's where we find what is driving health care costs up: we have medical equipment salesmen selling guys like this ultrasound machines so he can bill higher amounts to the insurance company, the doctor trying to push the unnecessary treatment, and the compliance consultant whispering in the ear of the doctor how he can use both to rip off my insurance company. But hey, the doctor has to pay his $120k/yr medical malpractice insurance coverage somehow, right?
So in the end, we have lawyers, doctors, medical equipment manufacturers, and compliance consultants working to fuck over the insurance companies and the government, and we have the government trying to control its own costs by paying way less than insurance companies do for equivalent procedures which in turn leads to doctors/hospitals raping their insured patients for all they can get away with to cover the losses they are taking on their government backed patients.
It's amazing, but insurance companies are actually the good guys in this story, and they're the ones that just got raped by the government with Obamacare. So no, the last thing we need is more government intrusion in the market, thanks. Now fuck off and die you twit.
Jay wrote:
You live in a tiny island nation
where it's relatively easy to keep tabs on the bureaucrats.
Then again, you seem determined to grow yourself and leech more resources unto yourself, why are you surprised no-one else is different?I live in a nation with 330,000,000 people and a perversely corrupt and inefficient government whose sole job seems to be to grow itself and leech more resources unto itself.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2013-09-24 04:25:10)
Rep. Tim Huelskamp (R-KS), who bravely opposed federal aid to all those greedy Northeasterners affected by Hurricane Sandy, is now boasting about his support for a House GOP plan to kick four to six million people off the food stamp program.
As Jonathan Chait details, the GOP’s draconian food stamp cuts were coupled with a push to preserve excessive subsidies for farmers and agribusinesses, which the GOP refused to cut as much as the Obama administration proposed. And, surprise surprise, Huelskamp’s family has greatly benefited from such government aid:
Huelskamp has been able to see a need for federal relief closer to his home. His brother's farm received $1.6 million in federal subsidies from 1995 to 2011. The federal payouts included more than $30,000 for disaster subsidies.
Huelskamp's parents' farm has also received subsidies. Politico reported in 2011 that the farm took in $1.1 million in federal farms subsidies from 1995 to 2009.
While speaking to right-wing talk show host Steve Deace yesterday, Huelskamp had fun sticking it to all those whiney poors trying to receive food assistance for their families.
Huelskamp pointed to Jason Greenslate, a California surfer who has been all over Fox News, as the face of American food stamp recipients. Media Matters points out that “labeling Greenslate a representative of SNAP recipients flies in the face of readily available data, which shows that the fraud and waste rate in the SNAP program is less than 1 percent and that 41 percent of food stamp recipients live ‘in a household with earnings.’”
Huelskamp joked that his two kids always feel “starved” under his watch, but that with his vote to cut food assistance, he only “decided to starve a surfer by the name of Jason in California who has decided that he’s not going to get a job in life because he gets food stamps.”
“Go pick up trash in a road ditch,” Huelskamp said, “you got to do something. There are 3.5-4 million American adults who are able-bodied, have no dependence and what do we require them to do to get a free check for food? Nothing.”
Huelskamp went on to call the food stamp program “out of control” because of its growth in size. Gee, it’s not like America has faced a recession or high unemployment rates or anything that might have driven up enrollment. Maybe all these working families struggling to put food on the table can just buy a big farm and get government welfare that way!
zingDilbert_X wrote:
Jay wrote:
You live in a tiny island nationIf you can find the right dam, Aus has many dams.where it's relatively easy to keep tabs on the bureaucrats.Then again, you seem determined to grow yourself and leech more resources unto yourself, why are you surprised no-one else is different?I live in a nation with 330,000,000 people and a perversely corrupt and inefficient government whose sole job seems to be to grow itself and leech more resources unto itself.
Its not my fault your system of government sucks, or that no-one there is educated enough to understand how social democracy works.
Pretty sure he was referring to Taiwan guys.........Shahter wrote:
zingDilbert_X wrote:
Jay wrote:
You live in a tiny island nationIf you can find the right dam, Aus has many dams.where it's relatively easy to keep tabs on the bureaucrats.Then again, you seem determined to grow yourself and leech more resources unto yourself, why are you surprised no-one else is different?I live in a nation with 330,000,000 people and a perversely corrupt and inefficient government whose sole job seems to be to grow itself and leech more resources unto itself.
Its not my fault your system of government sucks, or that no-one there is educated enough to understand how social democracy works.
