/sighFEOS wrote:
Again with the media conspiracy theories. From the guy who lives in a place where all media is controlled by the government. Rich.Shahter wrote:
no, it's the west-supported governments who do. the people in those places feel quite different. a lot of them, like myself, have actually seen what it was like before and after ussr' collapse. they are right here, come over, i'll introduce you, and you'll see for yourself how eager they are to "embrace the west". or you can keep chewing on the line o'crap you are being fed by your media.There are more former Soviet vassals than Georgia, Shahter. All but about two are trying like hell to embrace the West...
I get my foreign affairs inputs from articles written by those who live in the countries involved, thank you. You know, like those who you are referencing. I guess they must be controlled by the massive, world-wide anti-Russia media conspiracy...unlike the pristine media environment in Russia, eh?
remind me, where did i say anything about russian media? media is media - they do what they are paid to do. who do you think pays for those articles from which you get your "inputs"? unlike you, i'm not taking any of my info from media - i'm actually communicating with those people on daily basis, people, who, according to your "inputs", are eager to embrace the west, and i'm telling you - no, they are not. when was the last time you actually talked to uzbek or georgian? never? i thought so.
there, i highlighted the important part for you. cool your heels and come back to me when you have an argument."Nobody is going to be allowed to simply 'rise up' peacefully"? Really?Shahter wrote:
usa & co made it perfectly clear that nobody is going to be allowed to simply "rise up" peacefully. you did allow china to do that, got scared shitless by what they accomplished and went bombing anyone who tried to run themselves the way they wanted with "democracy and freedom". there's no improving anything. in the modern world everybody is for themselves.and it's pissing Putin off to no end. God forbid he see that as an opportunity to improve Russia's relations with the rest of the world, rather than making things worse. There's more than one way to rise back up, you know...
return fire for what i spew out? whatever. i may not agree with usmarine on much, but he's certainly right about so called "moderators" on these forum and how they need to check their priorities.I'm not an admin. I'm a moderator. Two different sets of permissions on the site.Shahter wrote:
i'm not trolling you, man. i'm getting back with the same bullshit i'm being continuously bombed with on these forums. you think that's "trolling"? you are an admin, how about you start doing something about it. you are welcome start with me.As if calling the West "the free and the brave" repeatedly is going to hurt someone's feelings? Try a new trolling tactic.
You're only getting return fire for what you spew out, with little to nothing to back it up, Shahter. In the words of one of our posters: "deal with it."
And yes, constantly trying to make "the free and the brave" seem like a dig is trolling. Poor trolling, but trolling nonetheless.
mainly because of what's happening in lybia and stuff like that.Why was there a need to threaten at all?Shahter wrote:
what's with the nukes again? threatening is threatening, nukes are just one of many things you can use in the process. russia, unfortunately, haven't got much to threaten others with anymore.How has the West been threatening people with nukes for not doing exactly what we say after we've been invited to participate in the process and then refused? Don't say Iraq, because that's not the way that went down. Don't say Afghanistan, because that's not how that went down, either.
Face it: it's all about Russia posturing to try to regain prominence that was lost after the fall of the USSR. And it's a remarkably shitty way to go about it in today's climate.
S-400 (or whatever was it's nato name i don't remember) have been reportedly tested against ballistic targets and performed well. but you are right - previous failures were among the factors which led to that.You're right. Failure is experience. Everyone can learn.Shahter wrote:
"obviously"? hmm. k.Because I obviously didn't mistype ASAT for ABM. FFS...pedantry...
but then in abm systems russia certainly have some experience. really, they do
no, we are not. from the particular incident with russia's response we have moved to the political climate and context which led to it. haven't you noticed? no? i'm telling you right here then. perspective and context.Nice derail attempt.Shahter wrote:
wat? so israely continuously drive palestinian people from their land, while once in a while throwing a proposition like "we'll give some of that back if you agree to admit that the rest is legitimately ours. what, you won't? k, we will continue pushing you away then, come back when you reconsider." they did it all while you were continuously blocking any and all attempts at resolving this crap by un. if that's no extortion - i don't know what is.Pretty sure Israel's never done anything of the sort, nor would the US or any other ally of theirs "be behind them" if they did. Because it's jackassery.
We're talking about Russia and their response to missile systems in former USSR client states.
those "mistakes" have worked remarkably well for you though. also, even since there was no ussr to counter-balance usa you have been making it abundantly clear that it you don't give a fuck about what "ostracized you globally". it's empty words meaning fuckall in international relations.Actually, people who have made mistakes--and learned from them--are the exact people to be calling out others for making similar mistakes. Why on earth would you think it's a good idea to take the same--admittedly--stupid policy approach that ostracized the US with so many globally?Shahter wrote:
no. the situations aren't. the methods used are. disregard for other's opinions on the matter is - the "bone-headed"-ness as you called it. but you are not in any position to be pointing a finger - and you know it.The proper phrase is "What goes around comes around". And I can only guess that you are implying that somehow, the US's bone-headed Middle East policy somehow justifies Russia taking an equally bone-headed policy toward its former client states, even though the two situations are nothing at all alike.
usa is hardly a "mother" and russia is certainly not a "kid". if anything, it's the other way around in most respects. but, what's most important, the world is hardly a kindergarten, man. in the modern world might makes right and everybody is for themselves. your analogy is irrelivant.Again, see above. Here in the US, our mothers ask our children this question when the kids say, "but the other kids are doing it": "If the other kids jumped off a bridge, would you?" Point being, just because someone else does something that's not a great idea, it doesn't mean you have to, as well.Shahter wrote:
see above. after you clean your own lawn maybe i'll accept something like this from you. until then - enjoy what may very well develop into another cold war.
answered already in my first post re this.Unilateralism has its place: usually when there is an existential threat involved. This ain't it. Never was. Russia knows it, as does everyone else. Which is what makes Russia's behavior all the more boorish, considering.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.