BF2S Forums Modern Islam is a blight on humanity

Jay wrote:

Stubbee wrote:

Jay wrote:

I'm not religious, I just think you're an annoying fuck and a broken record. This is at least the third time I've seen you post what you did. Fuck off already.

but do you agree or disagree with the statement? how about you address that instead of slinging insults?

You're not even American so why would I argue with you about American history?

Why not?

I could argue with shifty about Swiss history and probably win...

jord wrote:

Jay wrote:

Stubbee wrote:

but do you agree or disagree with the statement? how about you address that instead of slinging insults?

You're not even American so why would I argue with you about American history?

Why not?

I could argue with shifty about Swiss history and probably win...

Because I could shred his arguments inside of a minute (and have done so in the past). It's like having an arm wrestling contest against a guy with no arms.

But I don't want to do that because we're nominally 'on the same side'. I just hate preachy atheists.

Last edited by Jay (2011-04-02 09:05:44)

UnkleRukus wrote:

jord wrote:

Jay wrote:

You're not even American so why would I argue with you about American history?

Why not?

I could argue with shifty about Swiss history and probably win...

Shit, you could argue American history with the kid and still win.

Of course, but he's more Swiss than American so I went for that first.

Stubbee wrote:

Jay wrote:

Stubbee wrote:

but do you agree or disagree with the statement? how about you address that instead of slinging insults?

You're not even American so why would I argue with you about American history?

i guess only americans know about american history. by your logic you should not be posting in a thread about religion since you 'are not religious"

it you won't debate the point, i guess you concede the point then?

The fact that you took a super simplistic view on American history?

I dunno, why were references to god left out of the constitution and the declaration of independence? Could it be that they were simply legal documents and references to god were unnecessary? It sure as shit isn't because the founders of this nation were all atheists. We're talking about the Enlightenment, sure, but it was still a time where being a non-Christian meant disbarment from certain circles. I certainly don't see any Jewish names on the Declaration of Independence even though there were thousands of Jews living here at the time. Could it be that the circle of people that founded this nation didn't spare any thought to defining this nation as Christian because it didn't even occur to them? Their world was made up of white Protestant and Catholic males. Women were of secondary importance and blacks and people of foreign religions were barely thought of.

Does shit like God Bless America and the line in the Pledge of Allegiance bother me? A bit. But I recognize that I'm in the minority and making a big stink about it just brings about a conservative backlash that I really don't want to deal with. When I go to Catholic weddings I don't walk out of the fucking mass, I just sit there and stand up and sit down and go somewhere else in my head. What purpose would my walking out serve other than offending people needlessly?

Are evangelical Christians a nuisance? Yes. But so is an evangelical of any stripe. As a foreigner, lecturing me upon the principles with which my country was founded puts your right up there with Jehovas Witnesses and Born Again Christians on the annoyance meter.

Uzique wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Islam = third world religion.  Christianity = first world.

Thats why one is "violent" and one is not.  Throw any religious person into a shithole war torn country, teach them nothing but poverty, oppression, murder, rape, violence, and in Afgahnistan, make them all opium addicts.  Oh, and also forget to educate them.  Then burn the symbol of one of the only things they have, their religion.  Outcome is going to be the same, every time.

I've been saying this for a while now on here and to me it makes perfect sense.  You cannot just point to someone's faith and say that is why they are acting certain ways.  The Muslims in Saudi Arabia who have oogles of billions of oil dollars living in mansions made of gold hardly seem to care about this Florida guy burning a Koran.  See my point?

one of the best posts from an american i've read in D&ST on the matter of islam

ya....


except bin laden was a rich mofo so.......kind of kills that theory a bit.

oh and your point about saudi....you dont see it there because they are in other countries doing it.  so, you are basically dead wrong.

Last edited by 11 Bravo (2011-04-02 10:21:08)

I'm gonna quote Zizek here:

"In the past the West made a fatally wrong decision, claiming that religious fundamentalists are better than the secular left. And we are all paying a terrible price for that now."

Emphasis on FUNDAMENATLISTS, so this doesn't get mistaken for another "religion is evil, kill the religion" bullshit post.

Last edited by BlAiR_AgaiN (2011-04-02 11:31:04)

Spearhead wrote:

Islam = third world religion.  Christianity = first world.

Thats why one is "violent" and one is not.  Throw any religious person into a shithole war torn country, teach them nothing but poverty, oppression, murder, rape, violence, and in Afgahnistan, make them all opium addicts.  Oh, and also forget to educate them.  Then burn the symbol of one of the only things they have, their religion.  Outcome is going to be the same, every time.

I've been saying this for a while now on here and to me it makes perfect sense.  You cannot just point to someone's faith and say that is why they are acting certain ways.  The Muslims in Saudi Arabia who have oogles of billions of oil dollars living in mansions made of gold hardly seem to care about this Florida guy burning a Koran.  See my point?

Would be great except for the fact that it was Islamic law at work within the govts. keeping the people uneducated and war torn and in poverty or am I wrong about that?

Stingray24 wrote:

Modern Islam is fine ... it's the militant nutters that are the blight.

Agreed.

Granted, the best way to figure out who the nutters are is to burn more Qurans and draw more Mohammed cartoons.

Anyone willing to kill over a book burning or cartoon doesn't belong in open society -- they belong in an insane asylum.

Uzique wrote:

explaining their societal injustices and corruptions because of islam is kinda like saying all of the ills of western medieval-feudal societies were because of the christian church. in fact, the catholic church probably had a bigger and more active role in maintaining those power structures than islam does.

Is this not also true?

Uzique wrote:

well i'd argue that primarily it was because of, uh, feudalism. lord-serf relationships. the church just stratified it further. same as islam. their society has structural problems but the root cause isn't their faith: the faith is a superstructure on top of that foundation that further codifies and cements it. everything comes down to economic/political arrangement first and foremost. stuff like religion is a layer of tasty icing on top.

governments have their roots founded in religion, not the other way around. Governments, have used religion to bolster and justify their power and control. Islam is deeply rooted in ME governments, and those govts. use Islam to justify their actions in oppression inequality, jihad etc..

Jay wrote:

lowing wrote:

Uzique wrote:

well i'd argue that primarily it was because of, uh, feudalism. lord-serf relationships. the church just stratified it further. same as islam. their society has structural problems but the root cause isn't their faith: the faith is a superstructure on top of that foundation that further codifies and cements it. everything comes down to economic/political arrangement first and foremost. stuff like religion is a layer of tasty icing on top.

governments have their roots founded in religion, not the other way around. Governments, have used religion to bolster and justify their power and control. Islam is deeply rooted in ME governments, and those govts. use Islam to justify their actions in oppression inequality, jihad etc..

That's an unprovable chicken and egg theory.

Many people would argue that the primary motive that led to civilization was simply protection. Personally, I'm a believer in this theory and that religion was created at some point after it.

so morality and law came before religious justification in your opinion?

But like I said, it's a chicken and egg argument. Not something that can ever be definitively proven without a time machine.

you really think there was no law or morality before religion? all was chaos before some people wrote a 'don't do this!' list and formed churches? ...