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SuperJail Warden
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uziq wrote:

it's also amusing to me that human beings have been chewing cocoa leaves, khat, eating mushrooms, brewing yagé, etc. for much longer than we have been fermenting alcohol as an agricultural civilisation, and yet dilbert isn't out on vision quests with his native indian brethren every weekend. haven't human beings historically adapted to the ritualised experiences of these drugs, too?!? why is it only alcohol that gets the blind-eye pass because it has been taken for so long. historical inertia doesn't protect livers or combat the risks of heart disease and colorectal cancer, dilbert. lots of people die from alcohol-related morbidities.
Alcohol is considered the socially acceptable drug in western society due to the fact that the warm weather drugs like marijuana and cocoa couldn't grow in winter and famine stricken Europe. The rate of alcohol consumption decreases in every state that has legalized marijuana which leads me to believe that the Europeans wouldn't have built up a vast drinking culture had they had access to marijuana and coffee early on.
uziq
Member
+163|1766
alcohol has become widely acceptable because it's an easily obtainable byproduct of our regular agricultural processes. leftover or spoiled grain, wheat, potatoes, grapes, etc. can very easily be fermented into something that will get you fucked. all the staple diets of european cultures have a very easily obtainable alcohol-based intoxicant. i'm not debating that or questioning the centrality of alcohol. but just because the romans were drinking themselves into apoplexy and early deaths on falernian wine, doesn't mean alcohol is now safe in the 21st century. we haven't 'evolved' to be any more immune to it now than then. it is really fucking retarded to think that way.

the human organism has been consuming a whole class of other psychoactive compounds/organic solvents for a lot longer than large-scale brewing. but if you try to talk to dilbert about the toxicity of psilocybin versus alcohol, he'll tell you mushrooms are categorically Bad and can only make you develop psychoses, whereas he doesn't see anything wrong with alcohol from where's sat, no siree ... the thinking doesn't stand up to scrutiny for a minute.

Last edited by uziq (2019-07-09 06:05:12)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,615|4420|eXtreme to the maX
Coopers Session Ale is nice, I'm not sure what category it comes under though.
A little fruity and flowery but not overpowering, unlike some of the boutique beers where you feel queasy after a couple I can drink this stuff all day.

https://coopers.com.au/images/default-source/default-album/sessionbottle.png?Status=Master&sfvrsn=0

Maybe I should try mainlining heroin though.

https://www.waysidehouse.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/teen-girl-heroin-addict.jpg
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SuperJail Warden
Member
+194|2034
Kinda cute. She is definitely the type of girl I would let shot up on my couch and have sex with while she is half passed out.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+194|2034
You know what? I need a junkie FWB white girl. I could let her shot up at my place, give her $20 or $100 every so often. Buy a bunch of needles off of Amazon and give her a safe space in return for some sex and being pleasant to my parents.
uziq
Member
+163|1766
the words 'safe space' and 'sex' are a little too proximate there. people who use needles a lot tend to be at a high-risk of giving you blood-borne diseases.

why don't you get a nice woman you actually respect for a change? how's that for a radical idea. stop preying on retarded TAs and embryonic students.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+194|2034

uziq wrote:

the words 'safe space' and 'sex' are a little too proximate there. people who use needles a lot tend to be at a high-risk of giving you blood-borne diseases.

why don't you get a nice woman you actually respect for a change? how's that for a radical idea. stop preying on retarded TAs and embryonic students.
maybe
uziq
Member
+163|1766
willing to bet the NJ pond life you're preying on over there are not comparable to mena suvari. you're just breaking various ethical codes and degrading yourself. don't dress it up.
SuperJail Warden
Member
+194|2034
It doesn't matter for long anyway. The police officer exam just opened up again and I am going to apply to be an officer of the law. A position finally worthy of my skills.
uziq
Member
+163|1766
here's hoping the NSA or CIA alert them during the background checks stage and point your local police force to this forum.

online poker tax evasion
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,615|4420|eXtreme to the maX
Nearly everyone can lower their risk of dementia, even if it runs in the family, by living a healthy lifestyle, research suggests.

The study of nearly 200,000 people showed the risk fell by up to a third.

The team at the University of Exeter said the results were exciting, empowering and showed people were not doomed to get dementia.

What counts as a healthy lifestyle?
The researchers gave people a healthy lifestyle score based on a combination of exercise, diet, alcohol and smoking.

This is an example of someone who scored well:

Doesn't currently smoke
Cycles at normal pace for two-and-a-half hours a week
Eats a balanced diet that includes more than three portions of fruit and vegetables a day, eats fish twice a week and rarely eats processed meat
Drinks up to one pint of beer a day
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-4896321 … ting-story
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,747|5086|USA

Everyone should drink one pint of beer a day based on a cherry-picked case.

[img]ice cold beer with condensation.gif[/img]

Mmm, so refreshing. Alcoholism is a non-issue compared to *gasps* magic mushrooms or marijuana, and alcoholics are so universally pleasant to be around. We magically evolved beer digestion, too!
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,615|4420|eXtreme to the maX
A 200,000 people medical study suggesting mild beer consumption is good for you is a "cherry-picked case"
OK

Cannabis oil, not including the psychoactive components, helps with some cancers -> Everyone should be high all the time.
Thats some solid scientific logic there.
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unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,747|5086|USA

"An example of someone who scored well" is prime cherry picking.

Also, who is telling you to be high all the time?
uziq
Member
+163|1766
dilbert you misunderstand a very basic part of epidemiology, which is the J-curve (as seen elsewhere in all sorts of stats distributions). a psychoactive substance, organic solvent, whatever you want to take, can have a limited health benefit up to a point (the downwards curve of the J). after a point, however, the negative effects, addiction, harm and morbidity, etc, become dominant.

a study saying that one pint of beer a day can form a healthy lifestyle is great. many studies also state that small doses of psilocybin, LSD, MDMA, etc. are all beneficial for mental health issues, too. people microdose acid at silicon valley tech firms for its beneficial effects on thinking. people drink a few coffees everyday for its stimulant effects (you could do the same with cocaine; it is taken in south america in chewed form for its stimulant benefits on the digestive system).

but to deny that alcohol has a massive harm potential, is physically addictive (and highly dangerous to withdraw from), causes huge costs to society, etc. is absolutely ignorant. you cite a study that says one pint of beer a day can help deter dementia; there are hundreds of studies stating that anything beyond mild alcohol intake is very bad for dementia, alzheimer's, loss of memory, etc. most medical professionals would never recommend consuming alcohol over not consuming alcohol: the talk is always of moderating or reducing intake, never recommending people go and take up drinking to improve their health!

there are huge meta-studies that rank drugs on a scale of harm, citing 1,000s of studies. you ignore those handily because they point out - surprise surprise - that alcohol and tobacco are objectively really bad for you. there are non-addictive drugs which can also be utilised for their health benefits, you know. you see the illegal classification and throw a shitfit. please don't pretend you're relying on an objective, dispassionate scientific intelligence here. the point is can a drug be entrusted to someone to consume responsibly, and stay within that beneficial window of the J-curve? this comes down to other aspects, like how addictive the drug is, its compulsivity and harm potential, its lethal dose ratio, etc. alcohol evidently is abused on a wide scale throughout our society and people lose their lives to it all the time. it's not the benign and 'part of your five a day' ingredient you make it out to be.

Last edited by uziq (2019-07-16 01:40:22)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,615|4420|eXtreme to the maX
Never denied alcohol in excess has harm potential, so does water - people drown all the time.
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uziq
Member
+163|1766
yeah, right. the difference is that alcohol's lethal dose ratio and addictive potential is far higher than many illegal drugs. we're back, once again, where we started: you refusing to acknowledge the obvious that alcohol is a harmful drug and is far worse for people than a host of 'illicit' substances.

also the definition of 'excessive' alcohol consumption is far lower than you're comfortable admitting. 'casual' drinking culture in the UK is already far in excess of the medically recommended limits. you prattle on about cocaine-induced alzheimer's and turn a blind eye to the fact that a huge number of 'casual', 'not problematic' drinkers are already racing towards heart disease, liver disease, and dementia. but keep focussing on the high number of drowning victims.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,615|4420|eXtreme to the maX
We're arguing about 'far worse'.
In moderate doses its not harmful, its beneficial, just as cannabis oil can be beneficial - which still isn't an argument for creating a cannabis culture.
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uziq
Member
+163|1766
as macbeth said passim, cannabis culture is far preferable to alcohol culture. so many alternatives to alcohol have far more socially beneficial effects. i’d like to see a husband beat to his wife to death in an MDMA-fuelled rage. there is no ‘mean drunk’ of weed.

Last edited by uziq (2019-07-16 05:58:34)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,615|4420|eXtreme to the maX
The problem with psycho-active drugs is when people are off them.

There are few things more twitchy and miserable than a stoner who hasn't had a bong-hit for a week, same for MDMA apparently.
https://d14rmgtrwzf5a.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/content_image_landscape/eslide17.gif
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/ … neurotoxic

And yeah, a heroin user in a coma isn't usually a problem to those around them, if they survive they can be.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-07-16 23:13:17)

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uziq
Member
+163|1766
wow, i didn't realise MDMA affected your serotonin! well done. anyone who has ever taken MDMA knows that it blows all your serotonin. that's why 'comedowns' exist. nobody gets twitchy or irritable without a bong-hit or an MDMA dose. what are you talking about?

we're back to my discussion of the j-curve. yes, MDMA acts on your seratonin. it also helps in curing depression, PTSD, and a host of other seratonin-related mental health issues. whodathunkit?

https://hub.jhu.edu/2019/04/04/mdma-ope … -behavior/
john hopkins school of medicine researchers find MDMA, or ecstasy, reactivates a learning period for social rewards, allowing test subjects to form positive associations where none existed before.
https://maps.org/research/mdma
The FDA has designated MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD a Breakthrough Therapy, and has come to agreement with MAPS on Phase 3 protocol designs after a rigorous Special Protocol Assessment (SPA) process. MAPS' goal is to develop MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for PTSD into an FDA-approved prescription treatment by the end of 2021.

We are studying whether MDMA-assisted psychotherapy can help heal the psychological and emotional damage caused by sexual assault, war, violent crime, and other traumas. We also sponsored completed studies of MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for autistic adults with social anxiety, and MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for anxiety related to life-threatening illnesses.

In MDMA-assisted psychotherapy, MDMA is only administered a few times, unlike most medications for mental illnesses which are often taken daily for years, and sometimes forever.
https://www.newsweek.com/mice-mdma-brain-ptsd-1384948
Researchers have found that the psychedelic drug MDMA reawakens a critical period in brain development in mice—a finding that casts new light on why the substance may be helpful in treating some people with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD).

According to a study published in the journal Nature, just a single dose of MDMA helps to re-open this critical period—think of it as a kind of window—in adult mice. During the window, the brain is more sensitive to environmental stimuli and social interaction is more rewarding.

"We think that what MDMA does is cause oxytocin to be released," Dölen told Newsweek. "That extra oxytocin in turn causes the critical period for social reward learning to come back in adults."

The researchers say that their new findings could potentially have implications for the development of treatments for certain mental health conditions in humans.
i love how you'll sensationalise the after-effects of MDMA but then don't think about ... hangovers ... you know ... that state of being literally poisoned ... by a toxic substance ... your liver full of acetaldehyde, a poison ... vomiting, dizziness, issues with blood pressure, extreme swings of mood, depression, withdrawal syndrome ....

you are literally a demonstration of my whole thesis that drinking culture is casualised and forgiven everything. i will take a comedown after a dose of MDMA over an alcohol hangover, any day of the week. i'm sure you have a great grasp on neuroscience, though.

Alcohol is one of the most widely used psychoactive substances in the world. Alcohol-induced changes in brain functions can lead to disordered cognitive functioning, disrupted emotions and behavioral changes. Moreover, these brain changes are important contributing factors to the development of alcohol use disorders, including acute intoxication, long-term misuse and dependence. According to a survey sponsored by the World Health Organization, approximately 50% of the world adult population drank alcohol in 2004 and 76 million individuals met criteria for one or more of the 60 different alcohol-related mental or behavioral disorders listed in the 10th Revision of the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD-10).[1] A report on the relative contribution of different conditions to the ‘global burden of disease’ (which considers both premature mortality and disability) found that in 2010 alcohol ranked third out of the 25 major causes of the global burden of disease. In high-income countries the relative importance of alcohol-related health problems compared to other health problems is usually greater than in low- and middle-income countries.[2] Alcohol dependence, one of the most important alcohol-related conditions, is widely recognized as a growing global problem with serious medical, economic and social consequences..

Ethanol is a liposoluble neurotropic substance which penetrates the blood-brain barrier and inhibits central nervous system (CNS) functions; it is directly toxic to the brain. The etiology and pathology of alcohol dependence is the outcome of a complex interplay of biological, psychological and socio-environmental factors. CNS neurotransmitters play an important role in the development of alcohol addiction. Previous studies identified a wide range of neurotransmitters related to alcohol metabolism including dopamine, 5-HT, γ-aminobutyric acid, glutamate, endogenous opioid transmitter, acetylcholine and norepinephrine.[3] This review summarizes research progress in understanding the relationships linking the dopaminergic system and alcohol consumption.
look! we can play the 'scary scientific findings' game all day. do you really think consuming alcohol doesn't effect your brain chemistry on a long-term basis? both MDMA and your beloved alcohol are neurotoxic, d i p s h i t ! let me know when there are 60 different LSD or MDMA-related disorders!

Last edited by uziq (2019-07-17 03:15:55)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,615|4420|eXtreme to the maX
I'll take a brief hangover over having my serotonin fucked up for years, thanks.

Drugs can be used therapeutically - who knew?
Still doesn't mean they should be used recreationally.
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uziq
Member
+163|1766
you are so clueless. consuming alcohol affects your seratonin (5-HT) and dopamine levels. that's what drunkenness is, ultimately, its due to the mechanism of serotonin receptors in the brain. drinking alcohol affects your serotonin levels in the short and long term. christ you are dense. do you really think it's an extra-special substance that puts one in altered states of consciousness without ... any of the usual attendant consequences of your brain being chemically altered?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15704346
Serotonin is an important brain chemical that acts as a neurotransmitter to communicate information among nerve cells. Serotonin's actions have been linked to alcohol's effects on the brain and to alcohol abuse. Alcoholics and experimental animals that consume large quantities of alcohol show evidence of differences in brain serotonin levels compared with nonalcoholics. Both short- and long-term alcohol exposure also affect the serotonin receptors that convert the chemical signal produced by serotonin into functional changes in the signal-receiving cell. Drugs that act on these receptors alter alcohol consumption in both humans and animals. Serotonin, along with other neurotransmitters, also may contribute to alcohol's intoxicating and re. warding effects, and abnormalities in the brain's serotonin system appear to play an important role in the brain processes underlying alcohol abuse.
it's like you read a few scary articles about alzheimer's and seratonin, omg, without knowing anything about the subject. surprising ... keep consuming that psychoactive, toxic substance and convincing yourself that it's a different type of psychoactivity (one that seemingly doesn't affect neurotransmitters) and a different type of toxicity (one we can get used to if we just keep imbibing!!!)

protip dilderp, any substance that affects your dopamine or serotonin and interferes with your brain's reward system is going to have lasting effects physiologically (i.e. on your receptors) and psychologically (i.e. abuse potential). that's how it works and alcohol is most certainly not exempt from it (see above, the fifth biggest public health issue in the world with 60 alcohol-related disorders ...). it's hilarious to me that you link studies that experimentally try to establish whether or not MDMA is neurotoxic, whereas it has been black-and-white clearly accepted and beyond dispute for years that alcohol is neurotoxic. facepalm.

and i agree, i'm not making any arguments for heroin being consumed on a wide-scale in a recreational manner. my point is that alcohol is a bad drug recreationally. what does it mean if all these big bad drugs are being trialled for their medical benefits in actual treatment, whereas alcohol surely never will be useful in this way? hardly a ringing endorsement for the drug on a recreational level. it's a giant public health problem and a lousy drug, all things considered. there are better alternatives if you want some harmless fun. 3/10 would not recommend.

Last edited by uziq (2019-07-17 06:50:24)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,747|5086|USA

I hope this thread never ends.
uziq
Member
+163|1766
we need to find a way to harness its perpetual momentum to solve the energy crisis.

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