OrangeHound wrote:
I am going to go out on a limb and assume that you don't fully appreciate the situation with people who are in the lower class of America. I am involved on a near daily basis with the lower class, and illegal immigration is more of a political discussion point than it is a genuine problem.
Myth #1: Illegal immigrants don't pay for government services - Actually they do. Illegal immigrants pay sales taxes just like you and I pay them, they pay for tolls and they pay personal property taxes. Now, of course, they don't pay federal or state income taxes but here's the wisdom: you don't want them to file. If illegal immigrants filed income taxes like a legal citizen, then their low income would qualify them for the Earned Income Credit. Rather than paying taxes, they would actually have a negative tax burden, getting back anywhere from $1,000 to $3,000 in credits. Amazing, I know ... but the EIC is veiled welfare payment to low income earners.
Because they don't pay payroll taxes, that actually incurs a lot more debt upfront on the system than the EIC would. $1,000 to $3,000 per family is a drop in the bucket compared to what is paid upfront in payroll taxes by even low income legal citizens on an annual basis. Sure, after filing, low income citizens don't pay much of anything in income taxes, but the payroll tax basically makes up for that.
OrangeHound wrote:
Myth #2: Illegal immigrants don't support the Social Security System - OK, that's true ... but do you want them to be part of it? The only tax that an illegal immigrant doesn't pay is FICA (social security). But, then again, you don't want them to. You see, the Social Security system is not only a retirement program, but it is also a disability program. It is quite common knowledge among low income wage earners that they can actually get a package of government services if they can prove permanent disability - and they succeed with surprising rates (just last week, I met with a woman who was awarded social security disability because she claimed she was unable to work simply because she got angry on job ... that's right, anger was her disability). Once a part of the Social Security system, low income earners in America are proportionally more likely to be declared permanently disabled. And, they draw much more out of the system than they have ever paid in.
I can agree with this point to a degree, but this presents 2 problems.
1) Illegals still use our medical system if they get injured. Because they aren't citizens, it's much harder to get them to pay for services rendered if they choose not to, because they don't exactly have a credit rating to worry about. So, if an illegal shows up at the ER, then they get the same service as any uninsured citizen would. Again, even though a lot of citizens cause the same problem, illegals just add more fuel to the fire.
2) Your particular angle with this argument is one that essentially shows more of a problem with our system for unemployment insurance rather than justifying keeping things as they are with illegals. If nothing else, you're basically advocating in favor of maintaining a large "slave labor" class.
OrangeHound wrote:
Myth #3: The government actively works to enforce illegal immigration laws - This is laughable. Yeah, we might do some work on the borders, but once settled into the society, our government wants them here. The government knows of settled illegal immigrants - they know where they are, and what they are doing. Illegal immigrants go to our schools, and the schools know they are illegal. They take advantage of government job centers, and the centers know they are illegal. They stand on corners waiting for day labor, and the entire community knows they are illegal. Yes, the government is fully aware of illegal immigrants, but they do not deport them because they know full well that they are doing vital service in this country. They work the jobs that many Americans don't want to work, they work below minimum wage, and they do not use government services at a level that other low income workers will. America loves illegal immigrants, but we just don't appreciate how much we love them.
I agree that the feds don't do shit. Part of it has to do with what you stated. However, this only suggests we should open up our visa system to more immigrants. It still does not justify openly ignoring naturalization laws.
There's a good reason why even liberals of other countries are conservative on the immigration issue. It's because they understand the importance of making sure everyone is part of the system and pays all taxes required by that system. It's also important from a law enforcement standpoint, since illegals that commit crimes are often held in custody for a while but are eventually let out due to legal complications because they aren't citizens. The net effect of this depends on the jurisdiction, but in some cases, illegals get away with all kinds of crimes, while in others, they are held indefinitely.
OrangeHound wrote:
[So, there's three myths debunked. I know they are myths because I'm in the midst of this. Frankly, illegal immigrants are some of the nicest people you will ever meet: they are sincere, passionate, hard-working, and humble. Low income "legal" Americans are typically haughty, rude, violent, and prideful.
If you want to go on a crusade against a population in America that is burdening the "system", look at the entrenched, inner city African American population ... 90% are just trying to work the system to get benefits without work. Illegal immigrants are not.
While some people of both groups fit their respective stereotypes, there are plenty of people who don't. Assuming that all illegals are hard working and nice is just as ignorant as assuming all inner city blacks are lazy.
But the true irony behind all of this is that you claim to like illegals while implying that the fact that they don't get unemployment insurance is a good thing. Make up your mind. Either you enjoy exploiting them, or you actually care about their plight.
I'm straightforward about this. I see their plight as a consequence of a negligent government, corrupt employers, and a complacent public. I believe the poverty these people face is not our responsibility to deal with because it comes from other countries. They came here illegally, and under those circumstances, it's enter at your own risk. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of their countries of origin to correct these problems, but unfortunately, countries like Mexico essentially seem to believe that we owe it to them to rectify their poverty.
But don't get me wrong.... I think employers of illegals should be heavily fined and possibly even imprisoned for breaking federal laws. Unfortunately, our government has been influenced by big business and special interest groups into ignoring their own regulations and neglecting their duties involving national security.
Finally, opening up the visa system would be the most practical long term move so that people who would otherwise enter illegally become part of our system. However, this does not mean we should reward people that have already snuck in. That would be a blatant affront to legal immigrants.
