Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|5828|North Carolina
So apparently, the Census Bureau made an active attempt to count illegal immigrants in the latest census.  This, of course, has an effect on how reapportionment will occur with the House.

Ironically, several red states like Arizona will gain representatives partially as a result of significant illegal populations.  Of course, these illegals can't vote.

So, I guess the question is...  was it really a good idea to count illegals in the census?
Ghandi767
Member
+17|6045|Hanging in the Balance
They are 'free persons' within the United States.
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|5920

like free range chickens? like people that work that you don't have to pay?
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,760|5576|what

Turquoise wrote:

So, I guess the question is...  was it really a good idea to count illegals in the census?
If the representatives that have now been entered actually represent the illegals, then of course it was a good idea.

If they are not representative of the illegal population, then there is no point.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
UnkleRukus
That Guy
+236|4459|Massachusetts, USA
Illegal Aliens have always been a problem in this country, just ask the Native Americans.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|5828|North Carolina

UnkleRukus wrote:

Illegal Aliens have always been a problem in this country, just ask the Native Americans.
Well, that's kind of a good reason for modern "natives" to be concerned about the illegals.  Following your example, the Native Americans got mostly killed off by the illegals.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|5828|North Carolina

AussieReaper wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

So, I guess the question is...  was it really a good idea to count illegals in the census?
If the representatives that have now been entered actually represent the illegals, then of course it was a good idea.

If they are not representative of the illegal population, then there is no point.
They are only supposed to represent citizens, not illegals, and not even legal immigrants that aren't yet citizens.
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6104|Disaster Free Zone
Yes, it gives you an estimate of how many you have to deport. Giving them representation is stupid though.

Last edited by DrunkFace (2010-12-21 20:37:35)

OrangeHound
Busy doing highfalutin adminy stuff ...
+1,335|6072|Washington DC

Turquoise wrote:

So, I guess the question is...  was it really a good idea to count illegals in the census?
The census is used for more than just voting districts and representation.  It is also used to determine Federal distribution of resources:    where to spend money for schools, housing, health care, job training, economic development and more – more than $400 billion a year by the federal government alone.

Illegal immigrants use schools, health care, highways, libraries, etc.  So, counting illegals immigrants can account for the proportional share of how resources are actually used.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|5828|North Carolina

OrangeHound wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

So, I guess the question is...  was it really a good idea to count illegals in the census?
The census is used for more than just voting districts and representation.  It is also used to determine Federal distribution of resources:    where to spend money for schools, housing, health care, job training, economic development and more – more than $400 billion a year by the federal government alone.

Illegal immigrants use schools, health care, highways, libraries, etc.  So, counting illegals immigrants can account for the proportional share of how resources are actually used.
That sends the wrong message though.  By accounting for illegals in budgets, you make it easier for states to ignore this problem rather than encouraging them to solve it.

Until states truly feel the pain of having a large group of people within them that doesn't properly pay for services rendered, the costs just get passed to taxpaying citizens.  The people of states without many illegals shouldn't have to shoulder the burden of states that don't attempt to remove their illegals.
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|5777

Turquoise wrote:

So apparently, the Census Bureau made an active attempt to count illegal immigrants in the latest census. ?
How did they do that, I mean ...without asking them ?

Turquoise wrote:

So, I guess the question is...  was it really a good idea to count illegals in the census?. . That sends the wrong message though. .
It sends the intended message.

They are importing poverty to secure their voter base and power.
Anyone who thinks " liberal democrats really care about the poor " is lost.

Curse if you a dolt who cant read !

Last edited by Hunter/Jumper (2010-12-22 04:30:02)

OrangeHound
Busy doing highfalutin adminy stuff ...
+1,335|6072|Washington DC

Turquoise wrote:

... for states to ignore this problem rather than encouraging them to solve it.

Until states truly feel the pain of having a large group of people within them that doesn't properly pay for services rendered ...
I am going to go out on a limb and assume that you don't fully appreciate the situation with people who are in the lower class of America.   I am involved on a near daily basis with the lower class, and illegal immigration is more of a political discussion point than it is a genuine problem.   

Myth #1: Illegal immigrants don't pay for government services - Actually they do.  Illegal immigrants pay sales taxes just like you and I pay them, they pay for tolls and they pay personal property taxes.  Now, of course, they don't pay federal or state income taxes but here's the wisdom:  you don't want them to file.   If illegal immigrants filed income taxes like a legal citizen, then their low income would qualify them for the Earned Income Credit.  Rather than paying taxes, they would actually have a negative tax burden, getting back anywhere from $1,000 to $3,000 in credits.  Amazing, I know ... but the EIC is veiled welfare payment to low income earners.

Myth #2: Illegal immigrants don't support the Social Security System - OK, that's true ... but do you want them to be part of it?  The only tax that an illegal immigrant doesn't pay is FICA (social security).  But, then again, you don't want them to.  You see, the Social Security system is not only a retirement program, but it is also a disability program.  It is quite common knowledge among low income wage earners that they can actually get a package of government services if they can prove permanent disability - and they succeed with surprising rates (just last week, I met with a woman who was awarded social security disability because she claimed she was unable to work simply because she got angry on job ... that's right, anger was her disability).   Once a part of the Social Security system, low income earners in America are proportionally more likely to be declared permanently disabled.  And, they draw much more out of the system than they have ever paid in.

Myth #3: The government actively works to enforce illegal immigration laws - This is laughable.  Yeah, we might do some work on the borders, but once settled into the society, our government wants them here.  The government knows of settled illegal immigrants - they know where they are, and what they are doing.  Illegal immigrants go to our schools, and the schools know they are illegal.  They take advantage of government job centers, and the centers know they are illegal.  They stand on corners waiting for day labor, and the entire community knows they are illegal.  Yes, the government is fully aware of illegal immigrants, but they do not deport them because they know full well that they are doing vital service in this country.  They work the jobs that many Americans don't want to work, they work below minimum wage, and they do not use government services at a level that other low income workers will.  America loves illegal immigrants, but we just don't appreciate how much we love them.

So, there's three myths debunked.  I know they are myths because I'm in the midst of this.  Frankly, illegal immigrants are some of the nicest people you will ever meet:  they are sincere, passionate, hard-working, and humble.  Low income "legal" Americans are typically haughty, rude, violent, and prideful.

If you want to go on a crusade against a population in America that is burdening the "system", look at the entrenched, inner city African American population ... 90% are just trying to work the system to get benefits without work.  Illegal immigrants are not.
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|5777
Jesus not this again..we have been over this aspect ad-nauseam. Anybody wanna step up and " Tee Off " on this one ?
Hunter/Jumper
Member
+117|5777

OrangeHound wrote:

So, there's three myths debunked. .
in your opinion ~ I don't quite see them as myths or debunked but you have made some good points, I give you that..

OrangeHound wrote:

I know they are myths because I'm in the midst of this.
care to elaborate ?

OrangeHound wrote:

If you want to go on a crusade against a population in America that is burdening the "system", look at the entrenched, inner city African American population ... 90% are just trying to work the system to get benefits without work.  Illegal immigrants are not.
Can you back this up with facts or is the something you " know . . .  because I'm in the midst of this " also ?

Before you respond it may be important to note that he specified " inner city " of which the housing projects are sure to make up a large percentage.
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|5891

OrangeHound wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

... for states to ignore this problem rather than encouraging them to solve it.

Until states truly feel the pain of having a large group of people within them that doesn't properly pay for services rendered ...
I am going to go out on a limb and assume that you don't fully appreciate the situation with people who are in the lower class of America.   I am involved on a near daily basis with the lower class, and illegal immigration is more of a political discussion point than it is a genuine problem.   

Myth #1: Illegal immigrants don't pay for government services - Actually they do.  Illegal immigrants pay sales taxes just like you and I pay them, they pay for tolls and they pay personal property taxes.  Now, of course, they don't pay federal or state income taxes but here's the wisdom:  you don't want them to file.   If illegal immigrants filed income taxes like a legal citizen, then their low income would qualify them for the Earned Income Credit.  Rather than paying taxes, they would actually have a negative tax burden, getting back anywhere from $1,000 to $3,000 in credits.  Amazing, I know ... but the EIC is veiled welfare payment to low income earners.

Myth #2: Illegal immigrants don't support the Social Security System - OK, that's true ... but do you want them to be part of it?  The only tax that an illegal immigrant doesn't pay is FICA (social security).  But, then again, you don't want them to.  You see, the Social Security system is not only a retirement program, but it is also a disability program.  It is quite common knowledge among low income wage earners that they can actually get a package of government services if they can prove permanent disability - and they succeed with surprising rates (just last week, I met with a woman who was awarded social security disability because she claimed she was unable to work simply because she got angry on job ... that's right, anger was her disability).   Once a part of the Social Security system, low income earners in America are proportionally more likely to be declared permanently disabled.  And, they draw much more out of the system than they have ever paid in.

Myth #3: The government actively works to enforce illegal immigration laws - This is laughable.  Yeah, we might do some work on the borders, but once settled into the society, our government wants them here.  The government knows of settled illegal immigrants - they know where they are, and what they are doing.  Illegal immigrants go to our schools, and the schools know they are illegal.  They take advantage of government job centers, and the centers know they are illegal.  They stand on corners waiting for day labor, and the entire community knows they are illegal.  Yes, the government is fully aware of illegal immigrants, but they do not deport them because they know full well that they are doing vital service in this country.  They work the jobs that many Americans don't want to work, they work below minimum wage, and they do not use government services at a level that other low income workers will.  America loves illegal immigrants, but we just don't appreciate how much we love them.

So, there's three myths debunked.  I know they are myths because I'm in the midst of this.  Frankly, illegal immigrants are some of the nicest people you will ever meet:  they are sincere, passionate, hard-working, and humble.  Low income "legal" Americans are typically haughty, rude, violent, and prideful.

If you want to go on a crusade against a population in America that is burdening the "system", look at the entrenched, inner city African American population ... 90% are just trying to work the system to get benefits without work.  Illegal immigrants are not.
Mods hate Black people.
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|4660|Cleveland, Ohio

OrangeHound wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

... for states to ignore this problem rather than encouraging them to solve it.

Until states truly feel the pain of having a large group of people within them that doesn't properly pay for services rendered ...
I am going to go out on a limb and assume that you don't fully appreciate the situation with people who are in the lower class of America.   I am involved on a near daily basis with the lower class, and illegal immigration is more of a political discussion point than it is a genuine problem.   

Myth #1: Illegal immigrants don't pay for government services - Actually they do.  Illegal immigrants pay sales taxes just like you and I pay them, they pay for tolls and they pay personal property taxes.  Now, of course, they don't pay federal or state income taxes but here's the wisdom:  you don't want them to file.   If illegal immigrants filed income taxes like a legal citizen, then their low income would qualify them for the Earned Income Credit.  Rather than paying taxes, they would actually have a negative tax burden, getting back anywhere from $1,000 to $3,000 in credits.  Amazing, I know ... but the EIC is veiled welfare payment to low income earners.

Myth #2: Illegal immigrants don't support the Social Security System - OK, that's true ... but do you want them to be part of it?  The only tax that an illegal immigrant doesn't pay is FICA (social security).  But, then again, you don't want them to.  You see, the Social Security system is not only a retirement program, but it is also a disability program.  It is quite common knowledge among low income wage earners that they can actually get a package of government services if they can prove permanent disability - and they succeed with surprising rates (just last week, I met with a woman who was awarded social security disability because she claimed she was unable to work simply because she got angry on job ... that's right, anger was her disability).   Once a part of the Social Security system, low income earners in America are proportionally more likely to be declared permanently disabled.  And, they draw much more out of the system than they have ever paid in.

Myth #3: The government actively works to enforce illegal immigration laws - This is laughable.  Yeah, we might do some work on the borders, but once settled into the society, our government wants them here.  The government knows of settled illegal immigrants - they know where they are, and what they are doing.  Illegal immigrants go to our schools, and the schools know they are illegal.  They take advantage of government job centers, and the centers know they are illegal.  They stand on corners waiting for day labor, and the entire community knows they are illegal.  Yes, the government is fully aware of illegal immigrants, but they do not deport them because they know full well that they are doing vital service in this country.  They work the jobs that many Americans don't want to work, they work below minimum wage, and they do not use government services at a level that other low income workers will.  America loves illegal immigrants, but we just don't appreciate how much we love them.

So, there's three myths debunked.  I know they are myths because I'm in the midst of this.  Frankly, illegal immigrants are some of the nicest people you will ever meet:  they are sincere, passionate, hard-working, and humble.  Low income "legal" Americans are typically haughty, rude, violent, and prideful.

If you want to go on a crusade against a population in America that is burdening the "system", look at the entrenched, inner city African American population ... 90% are just trying to work the system to get benefits without work.  Illegal immigrants are not.
property tax?  how?  many of them dont own anything.  tolls?  what tolls? i have lived all over and rarely had to use a toll road.

and no this whole "they do jobs americans wont" is fucking utter bullshit. what jobs?  cut lawns?  i did that shit.  i know plenty of people who do that.  so what now?  janitor?  psssssshhhh i see plenty of legals doing that.  car wash?  still see plenty of americans. 

ya they do the jobs that americans would demand a better wage and benefits for...thats about it.  its just a case of making the rich more rich...not a case of "americans wont do these jobs."

sorry but your "myth busters" is kind of fail.

Last edited by 11 Bravo (2010-12-22 06:14:17)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|4781|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

OrangeHound wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

So, I guess the question is...  was it really a good idea to count illegals in the census?
The census is used for more than just voting districts and representation.  It is also used to determine Federal distribution of resources:    where to spend money for schools, housing, health care, job training, economic development and more – more than $400 billion a year by the federal government alone.

Illegal immigrants use schools, health care, highways, libraries, etc.  So, counting illegals immigrants can account for the proportional share of how resources are actually used.
That sends the wrong message though.  By accounting for illegals in budgets, you make it easier for states to ignore this problem rather than encouraging them to solve it.

Until states truly feel the pain of having a large group of people within them that doesn't properly pay for services rendered, the costs just get passed to taxpaying citizens.  The people of states without many illegals shouldn't have to shoulder the burden of states that don't attempt to remove their illegals.
Hey Turquoise? I can't make this any plainer. I'll talk slowly...

Illegals... pay... more... in... taxes... than... legal...citizens...since...they...can't...ask...for...a...tax...return...
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|4781|London, England

OrangeHound wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

... for states to ignore this problem rather than encouraging them to solve it.

Until states truly feel the pain of having a large group of people within them that doesn't properly pay for services rendered ...
I am going to go out on a limb and assume that you don't fully appreciate the situation with people who are in the lower class of America.   I am involved on a near daily basis with the lower class, and illegal immigration is more of a political discussion point than it is a genuine problem.   

Myth #1: Illegal immigrants don't pay for government services - Actually they do.  Illegal immigrants pay sales taxes just like you and I pay them, they pay for tolls and they pay personal property taxes.  Now, of course, they don't pay federal or state income taxes but here's the wisdom:  you don't want them to file.   If illegal immigrants filed income taxes like a legal citizen, then their low income would qualify them for the Earned Income Credit.  Rather than paying taxes, they would actually have a negative tax burden, getting back anywhere from $1,000 to $3,000 in credits.  Amazing, I know ... but the EIC is veiled welfare payment to low income earners.

Myth #2: Illegal immigrants don't support the Social Security System - OK, that's true ... but do you want them to be part of it?  The only tax that an illegal immigrant doesn't pay is FICA (social security).  But, then again, you don't want them to.  You see, the Social Security system is not only a retirement program, but it is also a disability program.  It is quite common knowledge among low income wage earners that they can actually get a package of government services if they can prove permanent disability - and they succeed with surprising rates (just last week, I met with a woman who was awarded social security disability because she claimed she was unable to work simply because she got angry on job ... that's right, anger was her disability).   Once a part of the Social Security system, low income earners in America are proportionally more likely to be declared permanently disabled.  And, they draw much more out of the system than they have ever paid in.

Myth #3: The government actively works to enforce illegal immigration laws - This is laughable.  Yeah, we might do some work on the borders, but once settled into the society, our government wants them here.  The government knows of settled illegal immigrants - they know where they are, and what they are doing.  Illegal immigrants go to our schools, and the schools know they are illegal.  They take advantage of government job centers, and the centers know they are illegal.  They stand on corners waiting for day labor, and the entire community knows they are illegal.  Yes, the government is fully aware of illegal immigrants, but they do not deport them because they know full well that they are doing vital service in this country.  They work the jobs that many Americans don't want to work, they work below minimum wage, and they do not use government services at a level that other low income workers will.  America loves illegal immigrants, but we just don't appreciate how much we love them.

So, there's three myths debunked.  I know they are myths because I'm in the midst of this.  Frankly, illegal immigrants are some of the nicest people you will ever meet:  they are sincere, passionate, hard-working, and humble.  Low income "legal" Americans are typically haughty, rude, violent, and prideful.

If you want to go on a crusade against a population in America that is burdening the "system", look at the entrenched, inner city African American population ... 90% are just trying to work the system to get benefits without work.  Illegal immigrants are not.
Myth #1 was incorrect. They do pay federal and state income tax if they are working on the books with a false identity. They simply can't request a tax refund in April. If they are working off the books, well, that's an issue that applies to everyone, black, white, mexican, asian, martian etc.

Oh, myth #2, same thing.

Last edited by [email protected] (2010-12-22 06:57:23)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
UnkleRukus
That Guy
+236|4459|Massachusetts, USA

Turquoise wrote:

UnkleRukus wrote:

Illegal Aliens have always been a problem in this country, just ask the Native Americans.
Well, that's kind of a good reason for modern "natives" to be concerned about the illegals.  Following your example, the Native Americans got mostly killed off by the illegals.
You're a fucking moron, the illegals coming into this country are a mixed bag of drug runners and actual people trying to make an honest wage. the majority of the illegals are the latter of the two. Frankly, since most Americans don't want to be doing the jobs that the immigrants are, I say let them in and pay them a decent wage.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|5828|North Carolina

OrangeHound wrote:

I am going to go out on a limb and assume that you don't fully appreciate the situation with people who are in the lower class of America.   I am involved on a near daily basis with the lower class, and illegal immigration is more of a political discussion point than it is a genuine problem.   

Myth #1: Illegal immigrants don't pay for government services - Actually they do.  Illegal immigrants pay sales taxes just like you and I pay them, they pay for tolls and they pay personal property taxes.  Now, of course, they don't pay federal or state income taxes but here's the wisdom:  you don't want them to file.   If illegal immigrants filed income taxes like a legal citizen, then their low income would qualify them for the Earned Income Credit.  Rather than paying taxes, they would actually have a negative tax burden, getting back anywhere from $1,000 to $3,000 in credits.  Amazing, I know ... but the EIC is veiled welfare payment to low income earners.
Because they don't pay payroll taxes, that actually incurs a lot more debt upfront on the system than the EIC would.  $1,000 to $3,000 per family is a drop in the bucket compared to what is paid upfront in payroll taxes by even low income legal citizens on an annual basis.  Sure, after filing, low income citizens don't pay much of anything in income taxes, but the payroll tax basically makes up for that.

OrangeHound wrote:

Myth #2: Illegal immigrants don't support the Social Security System - OK, that's true ... but do you want them to be part of it?  The only tax that an illegal immigrant doesn't pay is FICA (social security).  But, then again, you don't want them to.  You see, the Social Security system is not only a retirement program, but it is also a disability program.  It is quite common knowledge among low income wage earners that they can actually get a package of government services if they can prove permanent disability - and they succeed with surprising rates (just last week, I met with a woman who was awarded social security disability because she claimed she was unable to work simply because she got angry on job ... that's right, anger was her disability).   Once a part of the Social Security system, low income earners in America are proportionally more likely to be declared permanently disabled.  And, they draw much more out of the system than they have ever paid in.
I can agree with this point to a degree, but this presents 2 problems.

1) Illegals still use our medical system if they get injured.  Because they aren't citizens, it's much harder to get them to pay for services rendered if they choose not to, because they don't exactly have a credit rating to worry about.  So, if an illegal shows up at the ER, then they get the same service as any uninsured citizen would.  Again, even though a lot of citizens cause the same problem, illegals just add more fuel to the fire.

2) Your particular angle with this argument is one that essentially shows more of a problem with our system for unemployment insurance rather than justifying keeping things as they are with illegals.  If nothing else, you're basically advocating in favor of maintaining a large "slave labor" class.

OrangeHound wrote:

Myth #3: The government actively works to enforce illegal immigration laws - This is laughable.  Yeah, we might do some work on the borders, but once settled into the society, our government wants them here.  The government knows of settled illegal immigrants - they know where they are, and what they are doing.  Illegal immigrants go to our schools, and the schools know they are illegal.  They take advantage of government job centers, and the centers know they are illegal.  They stand on corners waiting for day labor, and the entire community knows they are illegal.  Yes, the government is fully aware of illegal immigrants, but they do not deport them because they know full well that they are doing vital service in this country.  They work the jobs that many Americans don't want to work, they work below minimum wage, and they do not use government services at a level that other low income workers will.  America loves illegal immigrants, but we just don't appreciate how much we love them.
I agree that the feds don't do shit.  Part of it has to do with what you stated.  However, this only suggests we should open up our visa system to more immigrants.  It still does not justify openly ignoring naturalization laws.

There's a good reason why even liberals of other countries are conservative on the immigration issue.  It's because they understand the importance of making sure everyone is part of the system and pays all taxes required by that system.  It's also important from a law enforcement standpoint, since illegals that commit crimes are often held in custody for a while but are eventually let out due to legal complications because they aren't citizens.  The net effect of this depends on the jurisdiction, but in some cases, illegals get away with all kinds of crimes, while in others, they are held indefinitely.

OrangeHound wrote:

[So, there's three myths debunked.  I know they are myths because I'm in the midst of this.  Frankly, illegal immigrants are some of the nicest people you will ever meet:  they are sincere, passionate, hard-working, and humble.  Low income "legal" Americans are typically haughty, rude, violent, and prideful.

If you want to go on a crusade against a population in America that is burdening the "system", look at the entrenched, inner city African American population ... 90% are just trying to work the system to get benefits without work.  Illegal immigrants are not.
While some people of both groups fit their respective stereotypes, there are plenty of people who don't.  Assuming that all illegals are hard working and nice is just as ignorant as assuming all inner city blacks are lazy.

But the true irony behind all of this is that you claim to like illegals while implying that the fact that they don't get unemployment insurance is a good thing.  Make up your mind.   Either you enjoy exploiting them, or you actually care about their plight.

I'm straightforward about this.  I see their plight as a consequence of a negligent government, corrupt employers, and a complacent public.  I believe the poverty these people face is not our responsibility to deal with because it comes from other countries.   They came here illegally, and under those circumstances, it's enter at your own risk.  Ultimately, it is the responsibility of their countries of origin to correct these problems, but unfortunately, countries like Mexico essentially seem to believe that we owe it to them to rectify their poverty.

But don't get me wrong....  I think employers of illegals should be heavily fined and possibly even imprisoned for breaking federal laws.  Unfortunately, our government has been influenced by big business and special interest groups into ignoring their own regulations and neglecting their duties involving national security.

Finally, opening up the visa system would be the most practical long term move so that people who would otherwise enter illegally become part of our system.  However, this does not mean we should reward people that have already snuck in.   That would be a blatant affront to legal immigrants.
UnkleRukus
That Guy
+236|4459|Massachusetts, USA
This country would collapse if all the employers of the illegals got fined hefty amounts or imprisoned.

Most of our food production and general goods production is done by illegals, harvesting crops is done by illegals, shit factory jobs, janitorial jobs, stuff like that. Most of it is done by illegals. If there was no one around to hire them, who would do those jobs.
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|5828|North Carolina

[email protected] wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

OrangeHound wrote:


The census is used for more than just voting districts and representation.  It is also used to determine Federal distribution of resources:    where to spend money for schools, housing, health care, job training, economic development and more – more than $400 billion a year by the federal government alone.

Illegal immigrants use schools, health care, highways, libraries, etc.  So, counting illegals immigrants can account for the proportional share of how resources are actually used.
That sends the wrong message though.  By accounting for illegals in budgets, you make it easier for states to ignore this problem rather than encouraging them to solve it.

Until states truly feel the pain of having a large group of people within them that doesn't properly pay for services rendered, the costs just get passed to taxpaying citizens.  The people of states without many illegals shouldn't have to shoulder the burden of states that don't attempt to remove their illegals.
Hey Turquoise? I can't make this any plainer. I'll talk slowly...

Illegals... pay... more... in... taxes... than... legal...citizens...since...they...can't...ask...for...a...tax...return...
No they don't.  Payroll taxes are the majority of taxation on low income earners.  Yes, they can file later for refunds, but the upfront money is what matters for having operating income for governmental functions.

Illegals don't pay payroll taxes, for obvious reasons.
UnkleRukus
That Guy
+236|4459|Massachusetts, USA

Turquoise wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


That sends the wrong message though.  By accounting for illegals in budgets, you make it easier for states to ignore this problem rather than encouraging them to solve it.

Until states truly feel the pain of having a large group of people within them that doesn't properly pay for services rendered, the costs just get passed to taxpaying citizens.  The people of states without many illegals shouldn't have to shoulder the burden of states that don't attempt to remove their illegals.
Hey Turquoise? I can't make this any plainer. I'll talk slowly...

Illegals... pay... more... in... taxes... than... legal...citizens...since...they...can't...ask...for...a...tax...return...
No they don't.  Payroll taxes are the majority of taxation on low income earners.  Yes, they can file later for refunds, but the upfront money is what matters for having operating income for governmental functions.

Illegals don't pay payroll taxes, for obvious reasons.
How would you know, are you an illegal alien?
If the women don't find ya handsome. They should at least find ya handy.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|5828|North Carolina

[email protected] wrote:

Myth #1 was incorrect. They do pay federal and state income tax if they are working on the books with a false identity. They simply can't request a tax refund in April. If they are working off the books, well, that's an issue that applies to everyone, black, white, mexican, asian, martian etc.

Oh, myth #2, same thing.
...and if they're working under a false identity, they're committing a much more serious felony than sneaking in.

See, either way you look at it, they're a net negative.

If I worked under a false identity, I'd go to prison.  When they do it, it's ignored.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|4781|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


That sends the wrong message though.  By accounting for illegals in budgets, you make it easier for states to ignore this problem rather than encouraging them to solve it.

Until states truly feel the pain of having a large group of people within them that doesn't properly pay for services rendered, the costs just get passed to taxpaying citizens.  The people of states without many illegals shouldn't have to shoulder the burden of states that don't attempt to remove their illegals.
Hey Turquoise? I can't make this any plainer. I'll talk slowly...

Illegals... pay... more... in... taxes... than... legal...citizens...since...they...can't...ask...for...a...tax...return...
No they don't.  Payroll taxes are the majority of taxation on low income earners.  Yes, they can file later for refunds, but the upfront money is what matters for having operating income for governmental functions.

Illegals don't pay payroll taxes, for obvious reasons.
Unless they are working under the table (like millions of legal Americans do) their employer withholds payroll tax for them.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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