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Poll

What is the most disturbing?

That the leaks happened34%34% - 16
Suspicions of corruption in the Afghan government2%2% - 1
A global computer hacking effort by China10%10% - 5
Saudis remain the chief financiers of Sunni militants4%4% - 2
Vladimir Putangs relationship with Silvio Berluscon2%2% - 1
US failing to prevent Syria giving arms to Hezbollah0%0% - 0
US sharply warned Germany to not arrest CIA agents17%17% - 8
Obama admin struggling to sort out Pakistani partners0%0% - 0
Yemen cover up American missile strikes6%6% - 3
Qaddafi hooking up with a Ukrainian Blonde nurse21%21% - 10
Total: 46
2010-12-03 19:55:32
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6623|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

So in the last hundred years or so, you can't find a single example, while the US is spying on anyone and everyone (and Israel is merrily spying on its only ally - the US).
What exactly are you talking about?

I said exactly what needed to happen: the same thing that happened to the US. Have douchenozzle Assange leak a country's diplomatic secrets and it will be there for us all to see.

Single example? Somewhat dated, but the BSC. Upwards of 3,000 British agents operating in the pre-war United States.

The whole point being that this stuff works best when kept secret.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-12-03 20:57:09
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6709

FEOS wrote:

What exactly are you talking about?
LoL, the $64 question . . .
2010-12-03 22:29:09
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6318|eXtreme to the maX
BSC, that sounds very shady and secret.
"Its first tasks were to promote British interests in the United States, counter Nazi propaganda, and protect the Atlantic convoys from enemy sabotage.

The BSC was registered by the State Department as a foreign entity. It operated out of offices in Rockefeller Center, and was officially known as the British Passport Control Office."

""the figure of up to 3,000 mentioned" ie downwards from 3,000, not upwards
Fuck Israel
2010-12-04 06:19:50
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6623|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

BSC, that sounds very shady and secret.
"Its first tasks were to promote British interests in the United States, counter Nazi propaganda, and protect the Atlantic convoys from enemy sabotage.

The BSC was registered by the State Department as a foreign entity. It operated out of offices in Rockefeller Center, and was officially known as the British Passport Control Office."

""the figure of up to 3,000 mentioned" ie downwards from 3,000, not upwards
So now you're trying to defend the UK's spy operation in the US pre- and durin WW2?

Their role was to influence US policy regarding UK interests--exactly the same thing US diplomats do, except they don't do it as "agents" but as diplomats. And guess what? UK diplomats do the same thing in every country they are in for UK interests.

They were registered as one thing officially (their cover) and did something else (their real function) for their government. That is not the same thing as what diplomats do. Their primary job is to interact with other countries' diplomats. Their secondary function is to report back anything they observe (what you consider "spying").

And yay for petty word games re "downwards from 3,000"...it means the same fucking thing as "upwards of 3,000".
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-12-04 14:41:14
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6318|eXtreme to the maX
I'll say it again, gathering intelligence and spying are two different things.

"downwards from 3,000"...it means the same fucking thing as "upwards of 3,000".
Fuck Israel
2010-12-04 15:39:39
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6623|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

I'll say it again, gathering intelligence and spying are two different things.

"downwards from 3,000"...it means the same fucking thing as "upwards of 3,000".
I'll say it again: you're wrong.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-12-04 18:23:22
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6318|eXtreme to the maX
Sorry, reporting back information from conversations and published information =/= Bugging telephones, intercepting emails, stealing encryption keys, iris patterns etc

You're probably confused since intelligence operatives often use diplomacy as a cover, however diplomacy =/= spying.

You're probably also confused because you're quoting Colin Powell, possibly the most discredited operator the US strategic community has ever produced.
Fuck Israel
2010-12-04 18:36:41
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5570|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Sorry, reporting back information from conversations and published information =/= Bugging telephones, intercepting emails, stealing encryption keys, iris patterns etc

You're probably confused since intelligence operatives often use diplomacy as a cover, however diplomacy =/= spying.

You're probably also confused because you're quoting Colin Powell, possibly the most discredited operator the US strategic community has ever produced.
Lol at you if you think diplomats and intelligence agencies around the world depend on checking the CIA Factbook for everything. Yeah sure, everyone is aboveboard. What world do you live in?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-12-04 22:16:23
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6623|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Sorry, reporting back information from conversations and published information =/= Bugging telephones, intercepting emails, stealing encryption keys, iris patterns etc

You're probably confused since intelligence operatives often use diplomacy as a cover, however diplomacy =/= spying.

You're probably also confused because you're quoting Colin Powell, possibly the most discredited operator the US strategic community has ever produced.
The above is so chock full of nonsense...it's not even worth it.

Read a book.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-12-05 00:08:40
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6318|eXtreme to the maX
I don't need to, my father has 30 years of diplomatic experience, including intelligence gathering, so I can just ask him.

If you really don't know the difference between what diplomats do and what the CIA does then there really is no helping you.
Fuck Israel
2010-12-05 00:15:02
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6683
hey i love how FEOS criticises me constantly for my 'arrogance' but then is happy to use my line on a subject he (supposedly) knows extesively. "go read a book" - but as soon as i say that to someone about the arts/music/literature... ah, noo! wonderful stuff. carry on, as you were
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-12-05 00:32:52
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6984|PNW

Pot/kettle/black still doesn't invalidate one from the other.
2010-12-05 08:55:44
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6623|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

I don't need to, my father has 30 years of diplomatic experience, including intelligence gathering, so I can just ask him.

If you really don't know the difference between what diplomats do and what the CIA does then there really is no helping you.
The difference is I have first hand experience in dealing with these people. What level of diplomat was dear old Dad? That makes a huge difference...which you would know if you either had a real background or had read a book on the topic.

Start with Sun Tzu.

And here's a shock to your system: if dear old dad ever sent a diplomatic cable, he was involved in HUMINT. That's what the CIA does, btw.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-12-05 09:00:40
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6623|'Murka

Uzique wrote:

hey i love how FEOS criticises me constantly for my 'arrogance' but then is happy to use my line on a subject he (supposedly) knows extesively. "go read a book" - but as soon as i say that to someone about the arts/music/literature... ah, noo! wonderful stuff. carry on, as you were
Try again. Context makes all the difference. But you'll learn that once you've read a few more books and attended a few more classes, child.

Come back when you've attended more college courses than I've slept through.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-12-05 14:56:13
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6318|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

And here's a shock to your system: if dear old dad ever sent a diplomatic cable, he was involved in HUMINT. That's what the CIA does, btw.
Which he did, often.

What he didn't do was plant bugs, set up wiretaps, abduct and torture people, intercept emails etc etc, that would be spying and the preserve of the intel community.

You seem thoroughly confused between spying and normal diplomatic activity, I suggest you read up on it.

Otherwise:

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned last year in a leaked classified memo that donors in Saudi Arabia were the "most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide".

She said it was "an ongoing challenge" to persuade Saudi officials to treat such activity as a strategic priority.

The groups funded include al-Qaeda, the Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba, she added.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11923176

So why did we invade Afghanistan and Iraq?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-12-05 14:59:45)

Fuck Israel
2010-12-05 17:05:40
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6623|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

And here's a shock to your system: if dear old dad ever sent a diplomatic cable, he was involved in HUMINT. That's what the CIA does, btw.
Which he did, often.

What he didn't do was plant bugs, set up wiretaps, abduct and torture people, intercept emails etc etc, that would be spying and the preserve of the intel community.

You seem thoroughly confused between spying and normal diplomatic activity, I suggest you read up on it.
None of those things you listed were part of what the State Dept does. So what is it that you're all in a lather about again?

Dilbert wrote:

Otherwise:

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned last year in a leaked classified memo that donors in Saudi Arabia were the "most significant source of funding to Sunni terrorist groups worldwide".

She said it was "an ongoing challenge" to persuade Saudi officials to treat such activity as a strategic priority.

The groups funded include al-Qaeda, the Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba, she added.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11923176

So why did we invade Afghanistan and Iraq?
Last question first: Afghanistan was because the Taliban were harboring AQ and UBL. Iraq was because intel showed they had WMD and they were in violation of roughly 17 UN resolutions, all of which fell in the "use of force" category. But we all know that. Now I'm going to have to wash my hands after feeding the troll.

As to the other part: We try to accomplish something via diplomacy, and you decry us. We try to accomplish something via other measures, and you decry us. I suppose you would rather the countries of the world just sat around wringing their hands, rather than trying to defend their national interests? Or is it only OK when you agree with those national interests?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-12-05 18:22:29
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6318|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

None of those things you listed were part of what the State Dept does. So what is it that you're all in a lather about again?
HILLARY Clinton has tried to repair strained relations with UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon after revelations that US diplomats were told to spy on him.
The US Secretary of State personally expressed regret to Mr Ban yesterday about the embarrassing disclosure by the WikiLeaks website that US diplomats had a significant intelligence-gathering operation at the UN.
...
Revelations that the US has spied on the UN leadership and international missions, including China and Iran, surprised few.

But observers are puzzled at the detail sought by the State Department, and the fact that diplomats were requested to gather such information in addition to intelligence gained from agencies such as the CIA or NSA.

Directives issued by Mrs Clinton in July last year, similar to those of her predecessor, Condoleezza Rice, asked about Mr Ban's management style.

But they also sought passwords and personal encryption keys used by top officials, as well as their credit card numbers, email addresses, phone, fax and pager numbers and their requent-flyer account numbers.

The revelations have prompted questions about whether such activity was legal, considering conventions that stipulate the UN's premises and correspondence "shall be inviolable".
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/wo … 5965376272

As you and the article say, these are the tasks of the CIA and NSA, not the diplomatic service.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-12-05 18:24:39)

Fuck Israel
2010-12-05 18:33:58
ROGUEDD
BF2s. A Liberal Gang of Faggots.
+452|5601|Fuck this.
How the hell did Qaddafi get some hot Ukranian nurse? I mean really.
Make X-meds a full member, for the sake of 15 year old anal gangbang porn watchers everywhere!
2010-12-05 18:36:55
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6318|eXtreme to the maX
https://dotgiri.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/dollar-sign.gif

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-12-05 18:37:07)

Fuck Israel
2010-12-05 18:53:10
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6623|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

None of those things you listed were part of what the State Dept does. So what is it that you're all in a lather about again?
HILLARY Clinton has tried to repair strained relations with UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon after revelations that US diplomats were told to spy on him.
The US Secretary of State personally expressed regret to Mr Ban yesterday about the embarrassing disclosure by the WikiLeaks website that US diplomats had a significant intelligence-gathering operation at the UN.
...
Revelations that the US has spied on the UN leadership and international missions, including China and Iran, surprised few.

But observers are puzzled at the detail sought by the State Department, and the fact that diplomats were requested to gather such information in addition to intelligence gained from agencies such as the CIA or NSA.

Directives issued by Mrs Clinton in July last year, similar to those of her predecessor, Condoleezza Rice, asked about Mr Ban's management style.

But they also sought passwords and personal encryption keys used by top officials, as well as their credit card numbers, email addresses, phone, fax and pager numbers and their requent-flyer account numbers.

The revelations have prompted questions about whether such activity was legal, considering conventions that stipulate the UN's premises and correspondence "shall be inviolable".
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/wo … 5965376272

As you and the article say, these are the tasks of the CIA and NSA, not the diplomatic service.
CIA has acknowledged reps at every embassy. As does the intelligence service of every country at their embassies.

So again...what are you all in a lather about? There's certainly not anything in the quotation provided that isn't within the normal bounds of everyday business in diplomatic circles for countries around the world. The only difference being, it's the US and you're Dilbert...
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-12-05 19:05:12
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6318|eXtreme to the maX
Instructing diplomats to spy =/= Having a CIA guy spy.

What Clinton asked for is totally outside the bounds of normal diplomatic activity or intel gathering and would result in any diplomat caught doing such things being immediately expelled from the country they're in.
Fuck Israel
2010-12-05 19:32:24
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6623|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

Instructing diplomats to spy =/= Having a CIA guy spy.

What Clinton asked for is totally outside the bounds of normal diplomatic activity or intel gathering and would result in any diplomat caught doing such things being immediately expelled from the country they're in.
Were you not paying attention when you agreed that when diplomats send information back, that's considered intelligence collection?

You're just grasping at straws to feed your trolling, Dilbert.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2010-12-06 03:34:02
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6813|132 and Bush

Wow, published for anyone who ever needed a list of targets
(CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE AND KEY RESOURCES LOCATED ABROAD)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11923766
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-12-06 03:40:24
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6318|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Instructing diplomats to spy =/= Having a CIA guy spy.

What Clinton asked for is totally outside the bounds of normal diplomatic activity or intel gathering and would result in any diplomat caught doing such things being immediately expelled from the country they're in.
Were you not paying attention when you agreed that when diplomats send information back, that's considered intelligence collection?

You're just grasping at straws to feed your trolling, Dilbert.
No, we're arguing about the difference between spying and intelligence gathering.

It seems too your world view is distorted - tell me if this looks real to you.

https://www.gishumor.com/uploaded_images/WorldAsAmericaSeesIt-734390.jpg

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-12-06 04:24:23)

Fuck Israel
2010-12-06 03:46:02
JahManRed
wank
+646|6840|IRELAND

globefish23 wrote:

I find it disturbing that we still don't have images of Gaddafi's voluptuous Ukrainian nurse posted.
https://downtownfarm.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/galyna-kolotnytska.jpg?w=267&h=400
You kids never heard of google?
I would BTW.

Last edited by JahManRed (2010-12-06 03:46:22)

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