Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5605|London, England
Catastrophic floods in Pakistan have killed more than 1,500 people, displaced at least 12 million, and left 20% of the country under water. Though the World Bank and the United Nations have pledged more than $1.4 billion in combined relief funds, the international community has generally been reluctant to get involved with the troubled Pakistani government. All too eager to aid flood victims, however, are Pakistani terrorist groups that use social services to expand their influence.

As the floods worsened this month, Islamabad's recently formed National Disaster Management Agency proved weak and inexperienced, and President Asif Ali Zardari remained abroad and seemingly out of touch. Meanwhile, hard-line Islamic charities tied to terrorist groups sent thousands of volunteers to undertake relief efforts in the most affected, hard-to-reach areas.

Within days, groups including Falah-e-Insaniyat, the charitable arm of Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET)—which carried out the 2008 Mumbai terrorist attack—were serving meals to victims and providing them with clothing, medicine and even money. In another instance, the Haqqania Madrasa, a fundamentalist boarding school that proudly counts senior Taliban among its alumni, has converted itself into a shelter and is giving meals, electricity and medical treatment to at least 2,500 victims.

There is already evidence that such activities are earning these groups public support from Pakistanis all along the Indus River basin, which spans the entire country. "For us they're angels," one retired policeman told Reuters.

So history is repeating itself. The same thing happened in October 2005, after a massive earthquake struck Pakistan. With the Pakistani government's initial response slow and disorganized, victims in remote areas relied on extremist groups for immediate rescue. Militant groups like Jamaat-ud-Dawa (the political arm of LET and a U.N.-listed terrorist organization) and the Al Rasheed Trust (an organization under U.N. sanction for its links to al Qaeda) were the first to reach isolated areas with water, food and medicine. These groups later set up tented villages and mobile hospitals, and helped care for orphans.

Even as some Pakistanis applauded American aid and personnel, entire villages benefited directly from the aid of as many as 17 extremist groups linked to terrorism or officially banned by the Pakistani government. Reports quickly circulated describing the many victims grateful for these groups' widespread relief efforts, with Pakistan's Interior minister even remarking that they were the "lifeline of [Pakistani] rescue and relief work."

Though difficult to quantify, it's hard to ignore the long-term impact of this phenomenon. While dispensing aid in 2005, extremist groups advertised for donations in mainstream Pakistani publications. They built orphanages and madrassas for victims, raising concerns among counterterrorism experts about recruitment and radicalization. Extremists gained trust among common Pakistanis and expanded their influence, gaining footholds in areas where they previously had only a limited presence.

The Pakistani people need help, even if it is coming from extremists. As such, it's no surprise that U.S. officials have thus far not condemned these groups' relief efforts. Washington has committed over $70 million in aid and is sending food, helicopters and a special "Disaster Assistance Team" to the region—all to address the humanitarian crisis and to improve Pakistani opinion of America. Still, militant extremists may well emerge from the floods as Pakistan's saviors.

What happens—to the U.S. mission in Afghanistan, among other things—if even more Pakistanis sour on their government? How concerned should Americans be if the group that perpetrated the Mumbai attack uses relief work to expand its recruiting base in northwest Pakistan?

Such pressing questions make it all the more important that the international community approach this crisis generously and responsibly. Moving forward, it will be critical to demand transparency from groups that receive aid to distribute, and to insist that the Pakistani government crack down on the charitable activities of terrorist organizations. It will also be crucial to empower, through money and programming, local nonprofit groups that could become sources of alternative relief during the next crisis.

Of course, even the best reconstruction efforts may have little effect on how Pakistanis view their own government or the U.S. At this point, many have already pledged their support to another team.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 … 22310.html

Gee, that sounds identical to Christian missionary work to me. Build a school but make sure you hand out Bibles with every bowl of rice. I wonder if the organizations listed in this op-ed were on 'terror watch lists' prior to our invasion of Afghanistan. I wonder how many of our church societies would be labeled as terror groups if we were ever invaded.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
jord
Member
+2,382|6925|The North, beyond the wall.
Too late again

I called it already, beduin can vouch for me. I'm like nostredamous
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6652|North Carolina
Short answer: the world would be better without any religion.
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6896

Turquoise wrote:

Short answer: the world would be better without any religion.
Long answer: debatable.
.Sup
be nice
+2,646|6700|The Twilight Zone

Turquoise wrote:

Short answer: the world would be better without any religion.
i think people would just find some other excuse to fight over. Race for example
https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6652|North Carolina

.Sup wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Short answer: the world would be better without any religion.
i think people would just find some other excuse to fight over. Race for example
Oh, there's no question they would.  The only differences are that religion provides a reason to kill that a) is justified via an intangible afterlife and an all powerful invisible being, and b) can't be logically debated because it doesn't depend on evidence or much reasoning beyond scripture.

At least other reasons to kill each other can be logically refuted.  You can't do that with religion, because everything is dependent on interpretations of the unknowable.  That's why religion can be so powerful as a force of evil.  Granted, I'm not saying it's only used for evil.  Obviously, even the Taliban is able to do good things for the suffering, but of course, it's for reasons that are pretty sinister.

Last edited by Turquoise (2010-08-18 12:32:24)

Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6828|SE London

ghettoperson wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Short answer: the world would be better without any religion.
Long answer: debatable.
But that's an even shorter answer....
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6789|Texas - Bigger than France
Religiously-driven behavior from dogma is usually the result of "teachings" from the normal societial response to a situation.

I tend to believe "religion" isn't the issue.

Last edited by Pug (2010-08-18 12:37:51)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6652|North Carolina

Pug wrote:

Religiously-driven behavior from dogma is usually the result of "teachings" from the normal societial response to a situation.

I tend to believe "religion" isn't the issue.
True, it is more precise to suggest that interpretation is the issue, but then there is the problem that interpretation of religion isn't based on an empirical process of analysis.  When a course of action isn't dependent on a reasoned approach based on evidence, then problems are more likely to result.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6789|Texas - Bigger than France
Ok, then I'll go with fanaticism.

Albeit its tough to figure out whether religion makes it easier to identify a fanatic/loony over other factors.
Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|5997|شمال

jord wrote:

Too late again

I called it already, beduin can vouch for me. I'm like nostredamous
this
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
rdx-fx
...
+955|6838
All of the Pakistani agencies I can think of (the ISI being the 1st), are corrupt beyond belief.

Like 90% of the money you send through them for any purpose, is going to be funneled off to hostile organizations, or get "lost".

The only organizations that can work within that environment are "terrorist" organizations.

"Misdirect my funds, and we'll tell the UN on you!" doesn't work worth a damn in Pakistan

"Misdirect my funds, and we'll send a suicide bomber into your HQ, then sodomize your sons, then rape your women, then set YOU on fire after we've made you watch all that"  that works in Pakistan.  There is precious little in-between.

If you don't have a very strong Or Else hanging over their heads, you cannot trust the Pakistanis with anything, especially money or secrets.

If the Pakistani ISI knows about it, it may as well be on e-bay.

(Note: Pakistani above meaning governmental agencies, the individual people may be more reliable.  YMMV)
rdx-fx
...
+955|6838

Pug wrote:

Ok, then I'll go with fanaticism.

Albeit its tough to figure out whether religion makes it easier to identify a fanatic/loony over other factors.
Fanatical religious indoctrination
gives simple people simple reasons to do stupid acts
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5605|London, England
Hey woah now, I wasn't attacking religion in the OP. A lot of these charities, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, whatever do a lot of good in the world. If they preach with their aid, so be it.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5720|Ventura, California
I thought most laws and things were based off of religion.

For example in the Bible the 10 commandments say you shouldn't steal, rape, kill, etc. In your laws it's illegal to steal, rape, kill, etc. I think the world would be better off following most of the 10 commandments, theoretically you would be more "Happy".
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5832

-Sh1fty- wrote:

I thought most laws and things were based off of religion.

For example in the Bible the 10 commandments say you shouldn't steal, rape, kill, etc. In your laws it's illegal to steal, rape, kill, etc. I think the world would be better off following most of the 10 commandments, theoretically you would be more "Happy".
Stop posting.
rdx-fx
...
+955|6838
Looks like the "terrorist" organizations are trying to clean up their image.

First, make a name for yourself
Second, go legitimate, clean up your reputation
Third, get elected into power, as the head of a proper nation-state.

If the Pakistanis want to get in bed with a terrorist organization, go for it.
Just another damn good excuse for the Indians to wipe them off the map, or do a little "regime change".
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6795|San Diego, CA, USA

.Sup wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Short answer: the world would be better without any religion.
i think people would just find some other excuse to fight over. Race for example
Or ecological reasons.  E.L.F. for example.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,815|6353|eXtreme to the maX
Ah, so its OK for Christians to go in and try to brainwash people as the price for helping them (remarkablly un-Christian by itself) but not for muslims to do it.
Fuck Israel
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5605|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

Ah, so its OK for Christians to go in and try to brainwash people as the price for helping them (remarkablly un-Christian by itself) but not for muslims to do it.
I did say that in the OP...
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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