ATG
Banned
+5,233|6499|Global Command
Because me and my ilk, the tool bag wearing chode are going to have our day.
I will charge a premium, I assure you, as cushion against the next enginerred housing debacle.


http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Ba … rtage.aspx
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England
Don't get too excited, most of the growth in the past decade was fueled by people buying second homes. The article fails to mention that when 1.3 million new people enter the workforce, a commensurate amount also leave the workforce or die.

Besides, no one in their right mind wants to live in California. You're still fucked.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6499|Global Command
I am moving. Pay attention moar.

people will also realize that cheap unskilled labor that says " Si " every time they are asked if they know how to do something build shitty houses.

I am trying to be positive. Don't bring my frown around.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6518|San Diego, CA, USA

JohnG@lt wrote:

...
Besides, no one in their right mind wants to live in California. You're still fucked.
I live in California and I don't want to live here.  No only are our tax rates going up 14-50% on January 1st, 2011 but NEW taxes like higher sales taxes are going to kicking in.

Thanks illegals...the $20 billion deficit could be nulled if it weren't for you (illegal are estimated to cost Californian's $20 billion/year).


Arizona or Texas look better and better every day.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Harmor wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

...
Besides, no one in their right mind wants to live in California. You're still fucked.
I live in California and I don't want to live here.  No only are our tax rates going up 14-50% on January 1st, 2011 but NEW taxes like higher sales taxes are going to kicking in.

Thanks illegals...the $20 billion deficit could be nulled if it weren't for you (illegal are estimated to cost Californian's $20 billion/year).


Arizona or Texas look better and better every day.
Lawl, it's got fuckall to do with illegals and everything to do with the ridiculous packages your public service unions were given across the entire state during the Dot Com boom. Guess everyone thought the good times would never end and now the checks come due. Couple this with the fact that you all voted for Propositions 13 and now you're fucked. You were eating your cake without paying for it (enjoying services), now that's gone away.

Break your unions and you'll come out ok. Good luck!



Illegals are an easy target because they can't fight back and are easily lumped together and demonized but the real demons in your midst are the cops, fire fighters, teachers, garbage men, highway workers, and other government workers that are now vastly overpaid. The size of your government and the costs associated with it has crushed industry and forced them to flee to places like Texas. As I said, break your unions.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-07-29 20:50:37)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6499|Global Command
There are 10-15 million illegals just in California.
CoronadoSEAL
pics or it didn't happen
+207|6488|USA

ATG wrote:

There are 10-15 million illegals just in California.
is this the real reason you're moving?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

ATG wrote:

There are 10-15 million illegals just in California.
"In 2010, illegal immigrants constituted an estimated 7.3 percent of the population."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California#Demographics

Total population of 36,961,664 puts the total number of illegals at: 2,698,201. That's quite a bit lower than your own number now isn't it? How can 7.3% of the population of your state bankrupt you all by themselves? Stop blaming them for all of your states problems. You assholes did it to yourselves, not them.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
13/f/taiwan
Member
+940|5668

JohnG@lt wrote:

Stop blaming them for all of your states problems. You assholes did it to yourselves, not them.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

ATG wrote:

There are 10-15 million illegals just in California.
"In 2010, illegal immigrants constituted an estimated 7.3 percent of the population."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California#Demographics

Total population of 36,961,664 puts the total number of illegals at: 2,698,201. That's quite a bit lower than your own number now isn't it? How can 7.3% of the population of your state bankrupt you all by themselves? Stop blaming them for all of your states problems. You assholes did it to yourselves, not them.
....except the fact that there is no reliable way to calculate the number of illegals.  It's like trying to calculate the number of insurgents in Afghanistan.  They don't exactly wear uniforms.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

ATG wrote:

There are 10-15 million illegals just in California.
"In 2010, illegal immigrants constituted an estimated 7.3 percent of the population."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California#Demographics

Total population of 36,961,664 puts the total number of illegals at: 2,698,201. That's quite a bit lower than your own number now isn't it? How can 7.3% of the population of your state bankrupt you all by themselves? Stop blaming them for all of your states problems. You assholes did it to yourselves, not them.
....except the fact that there is no reliable way to calculate the number of illegals.  It's like trying to calculate the number of insurgents in Afghanistan.  They don't exactly wear uniforms.
I don't give a shit. There's no way in hell that the number is possibly inflated by 30-40% like the asinine number ATG posted. Illegals are a problem yeah, but they aren't the reason California is bankrupt. California is bankrupt simply because it was mismanaged for decades. Pie in the sky ideas, strong unions, and a population full of jackasses that don't want to pay for the programs they use every day is why they're in trouble. California is essentially a microcosm of the US as a whole, they just can't print money
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


"In 2010, illegal immigrants constituted an estimated 7.3 percent of the population."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California#Demographics

Total population of 36,961,664 puts the total number of illegals at: 2,698,201. That's quite a bit lower than your own number now isn't it? How can 7.3% of the population of your state bankrupt you all by themselves? Stop blaming them for all of your states problems. You assholes did it to yourselves, not them.
....except the fact that there is no reliable way to calculate the number of illegals.  It's like trying to calculate the number of insurgents in Afghanistan.  They don't exactly wear uniforms.
I don't give a shit. There's no way in hell that the number is possibly inflated by 30-40% like the asinine number ATG posted. Illegals are a problem yeah, but they aren't the reason California is bankrupt. California is bankrupt simply because it was mismanaged for decades. Pie in the sky ideas, strong unions, and a population full of jackasses that don't want to pay for the programs they use every day is why they're in trouble. California is essentially a microcosm of the US as a whole, they just can't print money
I'm not disagreeing with that.  However, I wouldn't say illegals are blameless either.

Multiple factors have fucked over California.  Some of these problems were self-inflicted, but illegals did contribute to some of their problems.

Arizona is actually more of a relevant example of how illegals can damage a state -- most notably with the rise in kidnappings in Phoenix.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


....except the fact that there is no reliable way to calculate the number of illegals.  It's like trying to calculate the number of insurgents in Afghanistan.  They don't exactly wear uniforms.
I don't give a shit. There's no way in hell that the number is possibly inflated by 30-40% like the asinine number ATG posted. Illegals are a problem yeah, but they aren't the reason California is bankrupt. California is bankrupt simply because it was mismanaged for decades. Pie in the sky ideas, strong unions, and a population full of jackasses that don't want to pay for the programs they use every day is why they're in trouble. California is essentially a microcosm of the US as a whole, they just can't print money
I'm not disagreeing with that.  However, I wouldn't say illegals are blameless either.

Multiple factors have fucked over California.  Some of these problems were self-inflicted, but illegals did contribute to some of their problems.

Arizona is actually more of a relevant example of how illegals can damage a state -- most notably with the rise in kidnappings in Phoenix.
Neo-con interventionism, fascist population control and now racial purity. You really are on a roll this week.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina
It's not about race.  It's about citizenship.  If you're trespassing, you have to leave.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

It's not about race.  It's about citizenship.  If you're trespassing, you have to leave.
Ok. So you're not terrified that your great great grandchildren will probably speak Spanish instead of English? ATG is.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

It's not about race.  It's about citizenship.  If you're trespassing, you have to leave.
Ok. So you're not terrified that your great great grandchildren will probably speak Spanish instead of English? ATG is.
I'm not having kids, but I know what you're saying.

I generally don't get terrified of the inevitable.  Besides, I'll be in Canada eventually.  Whatever happens 20 years from now in America isn't too concerning to me other than how it relates to the global economy.  If America becomes significantly more Latino in culture (which it probably will), that will be interesting, but I don't see it as positive or negative -- it's just different.  It's like how different America became after the waves of Southern and Eastern Europeans arrived in the early 1900s.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

It's not about race.  It's about citizenship.  If you're trespassing, you have to leave.
Ok. So you're not terrified that your great great grandchildren will probably speak Spanish instead of English? ATG is.
I'm not having kids, but I know what you're saying.

I generally don't get terrified of the inevitable.  Besides, I'll be in Canada eventually.  Whatever happens 20 years from now in America isn't too concerning to me other than how it relates to the global economy.  If America becomes significantly more Latino in culture (which it probably will), that will be interesting, but I don't see it as positive or negative -- it's just different.  It's like how different America became after the waves of Southern and Eastern Europeans arrived in the early 1900s.
Then why are you so riled up against a small part of the population? There's plenty of freeloaders of other races, yet you seem to focus on illegals almost as much as the OP does.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


Ok. So you're not terrified that your great great grandchildren will probably speak Spanish instead of English? ATG is.
I'm not having kids, but I know what you're saying.

I generally don't get terrified of the inevitable.  Besides, I'll be in Canada eventually.  Whatever happens 20 years from now in America isn't too concerning to me other than how it relates to the global economy.  If America becomes significantly more Latino in culture (which it probably will), that will be interesting, but I don't see it as positive or negative -- it's just different.  It's like how different America became after the waves of Southern and Eastern Europeans arrived in the early 1900s.
Then why are you so riled up against a small part of the population? There's plenty of freeloaders of other races, yet you seem to focus on illegals almost as much as the OP does.
The freeloaders we already have make it that much harder for the system to handle more people coming in who may not usually freeload but still don't pay their share of taxes to compensate for the amenities they use.

There's also the fact that if we send the message that anyone can enter anytime they like without any respect to immigration laws, well...  you can expect the development of a much larger underclass than before and a major rise in the influence of drug cartels.

In effect, Mexico is exporting its problems here.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I'm not having kids, but I know what you're saying.

I generally don't get terrified of the inevitable.  Besides, I'll be in Canada eventually.  Whatever happens 20 years from now in America isn't too concerning to me other than how it relates to the global economy.  If America becomes significantly more Latino in culture (which it probably will), that will be interesting, but I don't see it as positive or negative -- it's just different.  It's like how different America became after the waves of Southern and Eastern Europeans arrived in the early 1900s.
Then why are you so riled up against a small part of the population? There's plenty of freeloaders of other races, yet you seem to focus on illegals almost as much as the OP does.
The freeloaders we already have make it that much harder for the system to handle more people coming in who may not usually freeload but still don't pay their share of taxes to compensate for the amenities they use.

There's also the fact that if we send the message that anyone can enter anytime they like without any respect to immigration laws, well...  you can expect the development of a much larger underclass than before and a major rise in the influence of drug cartels.

In effect, Mexico is exporting its problems here.
How exactly aren't they paying their fair share in taxes? They pay rent, yes? Therefor they pay property taxes. They work, yes? Therefor they pay income taxes (without the chance of getting a refund I might add). They shop, yes? Therefor they pay sales tax as well. Even if they use a fake social security number to find employment, their employer has to deduct payroll taxes for them.

So... that leaves only those working under the table as income tax dodgers and we have millions of our own homegrown tax dodgers doing that very exact thing. Hell, my landlord knocked $50 a month off my rent in order to entice me to pay cash instead of handing them a check. You think they're reporting the income they receive from this rental? My landlord happens to be white too.

Basically, your entire argument is housed on fallacies and half truths. It's easy to pick on immigrants, hell it happens to be a national pastime, I just figured you were better than that.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-07-29 23:01:36)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

How exactly aren't they paying their fair share in taxes? They pay rent, yes? Therefor they pay property taxes. They work, yes? Therefor they pay income taxes (without the chance of getting a refund I might add). They shop, yes? Therefor they pay sales tax as well. Even if they use a fake social security number to find employment, their employer has to deduct payroll taxes for them.

So... that leaves only those working under the table as income tax dodgers and we have millions of our own homegrown tax dodgers doing that very exact thing. Hell, my landlord knocked $50 a month off my rent in order to entice me to pay cash instead of handing them a check. You think they're reporting the income they receive from this rental? My landlord happens to be white too.

Basically, your entire argument is housed on fallacies and half truths. It's easy to pick on immigrants, hell it happens to be a national pastime, I just figured you were better than that.
I have just a few questions for you then....   Why have immigration laws at all?  Why have citizenship?   It would seem that all that matters to you is the ability to fill jobs.

If it really just comes down to letting the market clear everything, then the rest of all this is extraneous.  Borders are merely arbitrary, as are governments.

Last edited by Turquoise (2010-07-29 23:05:33)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

How exactly aren't they paying their fair share in taxes? They pay rent, yes? Therefor they pay property taxes. They work, yes? Therefor they pay income taxes (without the chance of getting a refund I might add). They shop, yes? Therefor they pay sales tax as well. Even if they use a fake social security number to find employment, their employer has to deduct payroll taxes for them.

So... that leaves only those working under the table as income tax dodgers and we have millions of our own homegrown tax dodgers doing that very exact thing. Hell, my landlord knocked $50 a month off my rent in order to entice me to pay cash instead of handing them a check. You think they're reporting the income they receive from this rental? My landlord happens to be white too.

Basically, your entire argument is housed on fallacies and half truths. It's easy to pick on immigrants, hell it happens to be a national pastime, I just figured you were better than that.
I have just a few questions for you then....   Why have immigration laws at all?  Why have citizenship?   It would seem that all that matters to you is the ability to fill jobs.

If it really just comes down to letting the market clear everything, then the rest of all this is extraneous.  Borders are merely arbitrary, as are governments.
Immigration laws should simply act as a filter to keep out criminals. Quotas are retarded.

Citizenship is required simply because it eliminates the chance of people unaffected by elections voting. Without citizenship, what's to stop a special interest from importing people to vote in favor of their platform in an election? Other than that, it has no value. Used in any other way, it is simply a tool to bind people to the land in the manner of serfs.

National borders are entirely arbitrary, yes. Localized borders, as in town lines etc, are not.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-07-29 23:19:32)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6375|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:

Immigration laws should simply act as a filter to keep out criminals. Quotas are retarded.
Well, you can forget about having any filters in place soon enough.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Citizenship is required simply because it eliminates the chance of people unaffected by elections voting. Without citizenship, what's to stop a special interest from importing people to vote in favor of their platform in an election? Other than that, it has no value.
I'd argue that's already been compromised via lobbyism.  You don't need to import votes, you just buy whoever runs for office.  Then, it doesn't matter who gets elected, as long as you have a lot of influence among both of the major candidates.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Used in any other way, it is simply a tool to bind people to the land in the manner of serfs.
Serfdom is a matter of perspective.  Serfdom knows no bounds in an age of multinational corporations.  You're never truly free, unless you live on an island cut off from the rest of humanity.   You'll always have one master or another to answer to.

JohnG@lt wrote:

National borders are entirely arbitrary, yes. Localized borders, as in town lines etc, are not.
Why's that?  I don't see why the logic for one shouldn't hold true for the other.

Last edited by Turquoise (2010-07-29 23:22:20)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|6499|Global Command

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

It's not about race.  It's about citizenship.  If you're trespassing, you have to leave.
Ok. So you're not terrified that your great great grandchildren will probably speak Spanish instead of English? ATG is.
I speak Spanish, you dolt.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Immigration laws should simply act as a filter to keep out criminals. Quotas are retarded.
Well, you can forget about having any filters in place soon enough.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Citizenship is required simply because it eliminates the chance of people unaffected by elections voting. Without citizenship, what's to stop a special interest from importing people to vote in favor of their platform in an election? Other than that, it has no value.
I'd argue that's already been compromised via lobbyism.  You don't need to import votes, you just buy whoever runs for office.  Then, it doesn't matter who gets elected, as long as you have a lot of influence among both of the major candidates.

JohnG@lt wrote:

National borders are entirely arbitrary, yes. Localized borders, as in town lines etc, are not.
Why's that?  I don't see why the logic for one shouldn't hold true for the other.
Replied before I finished my edit.

I added "Used in any other way, it is simply a tool to bind people to the land in the manner of serfs." to the citizenship paragraph.

As for people being bought in public office, good luck trying to do that at the local level.

And you're right, town lines are arbitrary. People should be able to 'shop around' locally for the best deal and attach themself to whatever town offers them the best deal. That's a pain in the ass though and would make infrastructure a nightmare. Much easier to just have them move within the border of the town.


Look, the only roles a government has historically played, and why governments were formed in the first place, has been for common defense against enemies. The secondary, and just as important, offshoot was in the creation of a justice system to keep people from killing, stealing, defrauding etc each other. Add to this the need for consistent coinage to ease commerce and you fulfill the only three functions that government was created to do. Everything else has been plopped down in its realm over the past century and a half and it's all needless junk. Generation after generation, people keep trying to dump more and more of their own personal responsibilities onto the shoulders of others. "Oh no, I didn't read the fine print and my credit card company ripped me off" 'Oh, I know! Let's create a Consumer Affairs bureau to make sure that no more morons are taken advantage of!' I mean really. All this trash needs to be cleaned out and we need to get back to basics. Allowing people to dump their burdens has made them lazy, helpless and dumb.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5328|London, England

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Used in any other way, it is simply a tool to bind people to the land in the manner of serfs.
Serfdom is a matter of perspective.  Serfdom knows no bounds in an age of multinational corporations.  You're never truly free, unless you live on an island cut off from the rest of humanity.   You'll always have one master or another to answer to.
Yeah, multinational corporations really hold me by the balls Jesus H Christ, you're as rife with conspiracy theories and off your rocker as much as ATG.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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