KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,982|6917|949

The source behind the leak of the collateral murder video was arrested recently in Iraq for disclosing classified information to unauthorized sources.  More from Wired

SPC Bradley Manning, 22, of Potomac, Maryland, was stationed at Forward Operating Base Hammer, 40 miles east of Baghdad, where he was arrested nearly two weeks ago by the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division. A family member says he’s being held in custody in Kuwait, and has not been formally charged.
...

He said he also leaked three other items to Wikileaks: a separate video showing the notorious 2009 Garani air strike in Afghanistan that Wikileaks has previously acknowledged is in its possession; a classified Army document  evaluating Wikileaks as a security threat, which the site posted in March; and a previously unreported breach consisting of 260,000 classified U.S. diplomatic cables that Manning described as exposing “almost criminal political back dealings.”
The article mentions a littany of reasons for the breach, from lax security to personal and job issues in Manning's life to a yearning for the truth to come out (in his words).

It seems like this guy genuinely thought he had a moral obligation to turn over this information.  However I tend to think that internal foreign policy discussions should be kept between the two parties involved.  It's definitely a threat to national security if intimate foreign policy discussions are exposed, but as of now the strong-arm of the law is only coming down hard on Manning.  What about Wikileaks?  From what I've read the site hasn't disclosed much if anything from the 250k+ classified dispatches, but possession of classified material by non-cleared entities is illegal as far as I know, so why no action against wikileaks?  Is this covered under federal whistleblower laws?

As the internet has become a very powerful source of information accessible by virtually anyone it is no stretch of the imagination to foresee these types of instances become more commonplace.  Do you think something like this will end up as an example of success for Manning/Wikileaks?  Is this something that should be championed as a free-speech and full-disclosure victory?

It's an interesting article that raises a lot of questions to say the least
13rin
Member
+977|6764
This is a good thing.  I'm tired of traitors leaking classified stuff.  "according to anonymous sources".... 

I dunno if wikileaks is owned by an American...  They should go after those bastards too.  It wasn't free speech or a full-disclosure victory.  The information was classified and there was no full-disclosure.  The pilots weren't interviewed by wikileaks and more importantly -the video wasn't shown in its entirety.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
loubot
O' HAL naw!
+470|6863|Columbus, OH
he had a moral obligation
The only moral obligation he should have is making sure the guys on the ground have the right intel. He couldn't manage that I bet.
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|7049|d
I think people should know the truth.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6906|London, England
that Manning described as exposing “almost criminal political back dealings.”
Hmm.... it's in the public interest for it to be exposed then, surely. The guy knows what he's getting himself into when he leaks all this shit, so I can't sympathise with him but you gotta still respect certain things he did.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6906|London, England
I suppose certain people will only respect someone if they keep their mouths shut, salute the flag and take a bullet for them
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|7000|US
There are systems in place within the DoD to deal with shady dealings.  The IG system is designed to investigate fraud, waste, and abuse.  I'm going to guess he could have used those, rather than releasing classified information (against the law and the agreement he signed).
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5759|Ventura, California

Mekstizzle wrote:

that Manning described as exposing “almost criminal political back dealings.”
Hmm.... it's in the public interest for it to be exposed then, surely. The guy knows what he's getting himself into when he leaks all this shit, so I can't sympathise with him but you gotta still respect certain things he did.
I bet he gets paid for that shit.

He didn't only leak the one video. He's leaked thousands of little things  I heard.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
13rin
Member
+977|6764

Mekstizzle wrote:

that Manning described as exposing “almost criminal political back dealings.”
Hmm.... it's in the public interest for it to be exposed then, surely. The guy knows what he's getting himself into when he leaks all this shit, so I can't sympathise with him but you gotta still respect certain things he did.
I guess you would respect that he's a traitor.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
loubot
O' HAL naw!
+470|6863|Columbus, OH

mafia996630 wrote:

I think people should know the truth.
people whine and cry too much. The less people or politicians have to deal with matters like this, the better. Tough luck on the photographer and aid but when you step into a warzone, dont expect to come out smelling like roses.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6827|Texas - Bigger than France

mafia996630 wrote:

I think people should know the truth.
Sure absolutely, as long as it doesn't tip the hand of the armed forces....
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6415|North Tonawanda, NY
He discussed personal issues that got him into trouble with his superiors and left him socially isolated, and said he had been demoted and was headed for an early discharge from the Army.
Well, he obviously didn't have a bone to pick with the military, right?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

DBBrinson1 wrote:

This is a good thing.  I'm tired of traitors leaking classified stuff.  "according to anonymous sources".... 

I dunno if wikileaks is owned by an American...  They should go after those bastards too.  It wasn't free speech or a full-disclosure victory.  The information was classified and there was no full-disclosure.  The pilots weren't interviewed by wikileaks and more importantly -the video wasn't shown in its entirety.
Depends, if he's exposing criminal activity by the authorities then its right to do it.
Fuck Israel
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6438|what

If I were that guy, I would have planned well in advance the possibility of my arrest and subsequently would have set up the release of a lot of that info to the press/wikileaks  in the event I wasn't there to stop it.

I'm surprise that info has remained hidden.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,982|6917|949

AussieReaper wrote:

If I were that guy, I would have planned well in advance the possibility of my arrest and subsequently would have set up the release of a lot of that info to the press/wikileaks  in the event I wasn't there to stop it.

I'm surprise that info has remained hidden.
He's supposedly already released it to Wikileaks.  They are supposedly sitting on it for whatever reason.  They aren't confirming or denying the existence.

If he had a hard copy it's likely the original was destroyed (hopefully).  Wikileaks employs a vigorous encryption system that allows for the data to be completely anonymous in transmission and storage.

This is all mentioned in the article in the OP, btw.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6438|what

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

If I were that guy, I would have planned well in advance the possibility of my arrest and subsequently would have set up the release of a lot of that info to the press/wikileaks  in the event I wasn't there to stop it.

I'm surprise that info has remained hidden.
He's supposedly already released it to Wikileaks.  They are supposedly sitting on it for whatever reason.  They aren't confirming or denying the existence.

If he had a hard copy it's likely the original was destroyed (hopefully).  Wikileaks employs a vigorous encryption system that allows for the data to be completely anonymous in transmission and storage.

This is all mentioned in the article in the OP, btw.
Releasing to just one source (wikileaks) is just a stupid move on his part. He has no bargaining power at all with those who just arrested him.

He could threaten that the info would be released to global media networks unless he was freed, at the very least.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,982|6917|949

It's probably illegal to publish known classified information that could jeopardize the nation's security.  Not really much of a bargaining chip when other media networks would probably get prosecuted for knowingly publishing the information.

His intent wasn't to fuck over the US government or stick it to 'the man'.  It was to correct what he perceived as immoral/unethical behavior.  Again, this is all present in the article IF YOU ACTUALLY BOTHERED READING IT.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

RAIMIUS is spot on WRT other avenues available to the guy if he felt a moral obligation to blow the whistle on something.

As to whether Wikileaks is under any obligation to not run the classified info...no. They're not. They haven't signed any non-disclosure agreements. That's the crappy part of this and why people who are trusted with classified information are trusted. One knucklehead who clearly shouldn't have been.

Now, many media outlets choose not to publish information they know is classified...but Wikileaks is clearly not one of those.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7001

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

It's probably illegal to publish known classified information that could jeopardize the nation's security.  Not really much of a bargaining chip when other media networks would probably get prosecuted for knowingly publishing the information.

His intent wasn't to fuck over the US government or stick it to 'the man'.  It was to correct what he perceived as immoral/unethical behavior.  Again, this is all present in the article IF YOU ACTUALLY BOTHERED READING IT.
Shitloads of governments tried to shut wikileaks down... Think their server is in Sweden or something where those laws don't apply. But uploading this vid and completely fucking biased it with comments is a disgrace.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX
So what was the reason the video was 'classified'?

Doesn't show any super-secret methods, equipment, people, locations or anything - its just embarassing to the govt.
Fuck Israel
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7001

Dilbert_X wrote:

So what was the reason the video was 'classified'?

Doesn't show any super-secret methods, equipment, people, locations or anything - its just embarassing to the govt.
Some shit from the 90s are still classified... Classified doesn't mean super secret, it just means it's not for the eyes of the public.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

So what was the reason the video was 'classified'?

Doesn't show any super-secret methods, equipment, people, locations or anything - its just embarassing to the govt.
You don't know if it does or not. It very well may, you just don't know what to look for.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
mcgid1
Meh...
+129|7002|Austin, TX/San Antonio, TX

Cybargs wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

So what was the reason the video was 'classified'?

Doesn't show any super-secret methods, equipment, people, locations or anything - its just embarrassing to the govt.
Some shit from the 90s are still classified... Classified doesn't mean super secret, it just means it's not for the eyes of the public.
This.  Considering how valuable information can be in war, it's easier to just have a blanket policy of classifying all gun cam footage and the like from battles and maneuvers, except for that they choose to release to the press, than to try to go through all the footage and edit out the sensitive parts before putting it into a public domain.  Also, on some of the videos there could be information that might not seem important to the US but could be important to the other side so, again, it's easier and better to just have a blanket policy than try to edit out the seemingly important bits and potentially miss something.

In this case though, I agree that it shouldn't have been covered up.  On the same note, I'd blame the people who actually covered it up and not the pilots who did the action.  The people who covered it up had time to go back and realize what was going on and had the benefit of being able to look at the tape multiple times to make sense of everything.  The pilots on the other hand, had a limited amount of time to make a decision, and couldn't exactly use instant replay to double check everything.

Last edited by mcgid1 (2010-06-08 22:11:48)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,056|7057|PNW

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

that Manning described as exposing “almost criminal political back dealings.”
Hmm.... it's in the public interest for it to be exposed then, surely. The guy knows what he's getting himself into when he leaks all this shit, so I can't sympathise with him but you gotta still respect certain things he did.
I guess you would respect that he's a traitor.
That's kind of a gray area you're dealing with. As I recall, "I was just followink orders" didn't really hold up too well at ol' Nuremberg.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

So what was the reason the video was 'classified'?

Doesn't show any super-secret methods, equipment, people, locations or anything - its just embarassing to the govt.
You don't know if it does or not. It very well may, you just don't know what to look for.
Or it may not be, like so many things govts choose to 'classify' because they're politically embarassing.
Fuck Israel

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