BF2S Forums Mosque to be built by Ground Zero?

lowing wrote:

Spark wrote:

lowing wrote:

I did not dismiss his "expert" opinion.  The very fact that he even had to say something like that pretty much proves it is associated with Islam. If it were not, why would he even need to mention it? Get real.

That.

Is awful logic.

How does someone saying "X is not associated with Y" imply "X is associated with Y" in any way, shape or form? That is a pure contradiction, as clear as they come.

OK so you think it makes perfect sense for this guy to come out and defend Islam against this practice, IF Islam was not associated with this practice in the first place?  What reason would he have for doing this then?

Because perhaps the association is wrong and he is pointing it out.

Yeah, they just made it up huh?

In all likelihood, yes.

lowing wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

lowing wrote:

Ahhh but based on your argument Christmas is NOT in the bible, so how could it be Christian? Likewise, regardless of FGM, or sharia law itself, not mentioned in the Koran, it is still part of Islamic culture. SO in this your argument fails.


I am discussing it, I have been discussing it, I have been presenting an argument, I have acknowledged the denial that these things are in the Koran, however, as already stated, neither is Christmas, yet it is still Christian, you said so yourself. Your argument  that if it is not in the holy books than it is not part of the religion or culture is inconsistent.

Please learn to read and not to troll.

Seeing as you're lacking in the understanding department, it's time for a little explanation.

Christmas is a Christian holiday. Christians themselves define it as such. Bible aside, the Pope holds a Christmas service. Therefore it has a religious context.
FMG/C is a cultural practice. Islamic religious leaders have condemned it, therefore it has no religious context.

I still wait for your response to further show how you continue to miss this point, and I will continue to patiently explain it to you.

Christians adopted the holiday, I don't give a flying fuck what the Pope or Christians do, they have no biblcal reference base to celebrate Christmas, and yet, as you keep pointing out, they have their religious holiday. CHristians also confess to a priest, there is no biblical reference for this either, yet, they do it. Plenty of examples where non-scripture practices find their way into traditions and customs of certain religions. Islam just appears to adopted the most fucked up of these. Don't blame me.

FGM is a cultural practice, and since Islam is cultural as much as it is religious, it also is a practice that can be adopted culturally. It does not need a religious reference to do so. JUST LIKE CHRISTMAS!!

Now, for your guy to come out and defend Islam regarding FGM, should be an indicator to you that that practice has been adopted culturally by Islamic nations. For if it were not, there would be no reason for him to even bring it up now would there?

You are also failing to address that Sharia Law is not in the Koran, yet seem to be a part of Islamic culture. How could that possibly be, based on your argument that all things practiced within a religion must have a religious context?  Could it be that Sharia Law, like stonings, FGM, honor killings and all of the other barbaric practiced found within Islam does not need a religious context, that a cultural context would exist to explain these things?

By the way, your condescending, smart ass, superior attitude regarding debating is not only annoying, it is also childish and does little to bolster your argument. For if you had a good argument such tactics and approaches would not be necessary. So do me a favor and stow it already.

Wow, temper temper.

The point you continue to gloss over is the highest authority of Islam has condemned FGM/C.
The Pope doesn't condemn Christmas, he holds a mass for it.
How little you seem to grasp these simple points and argue them as both the same is amusing.

Jaekus wrote:

lowing wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Please learn to read and not to troll.

Seeing as you're lacking in the understanding department, it's time for a little explanation.

Christmas is a Christian holiday. Christians themselves define it as such. Bible aside, the Pope holds a Christmas service. Therefore it has a religious context.
FMG/C is a cultural practice. Islamic religious leaders have condemned it, therefore it has no religious context.

I still wait for your response to further show how you continue to miss this point, and I will continue to patiently explain it to you.

Christians adopted the holiday, I don't give a flying fuck what the Pope or Christians do, they have no biblcal reference base to celebrate Christmas, and yet, as you keep pointing out, they have their religious holiday. CHristians also confess to a priest, there is no biblical reference for this either, yet, they do it. Plenty of examples where non-scripture practices find their way into traditions and customs of certain religions. Islam just appears to adopted the most fucked up of these. Don't blame me.

FGM is a cultural practice, and since Islam is cultural as much as it is religious, it also is a practice that can be adopted culturally. It does not need a religious reference to do so. JUST LIKE CHRISTMAS!!

Now, for your guy to come out and defend Islam regarding FGM, should be an indicator to you that that practice has been adopted culturally by Islamic nations. For if it were not, there would be no reason for him to even bring it up now would there?

You are also failing to address that Sharia Law is not in the Koran, yet seem to be a part of Islamic culture. How could that possibly be, based on your argument that all things practiced within a religion must have a religious context?  Could it be that Sharia Law, like stonings, FGM, honor killings and all of the other barbaric practiced found within Islam does not need a religious context, that a cultural context would exist to explain these things?

By the way, your condescending, smart ass, superior attitude regarding debating is not only annoying, it is also childish and does little to bolster your argument. For if you had a good argument such tactics and approaches would not be necessary. So do me a favor and stow it already.

Wow, temper temper.

The point you continue to gloss over is the highest authority of Islam has condemned FGM/C.
The Pope doesn't condemn Christmas, he holds a mass for it.
How little you seem to grasp these simple points and argue them as both the same is amusing.

I don't have a temper, I am simply asking you to stop posting like jack off.

We are not talking about condemnations or approvals, we are talking about traditions and practices associated with religions that have no basis in their holy books. Your argument that stonings, FGM, honor killings having nothing to do with Islam because it is not in the Koran, does not hold water, when plenty of examples of practices adopted by other religions have clearly been adopted by those groups and have no basis within their holy books either.

You say an Islamic cleric said so, fine, but then why would he have to say so, if it were not associated with Islam in the first place?


So basically, if you want to continue to argue that honor killings, stonings, FGM, etc are not part of Islamic culture, you are going to have to find another argument to make that case.

For starters, we are not talking about stonings or honour killings, and I have not mentioned these things so please don't try to put words in my mouth.

Secondly, you are comparing Christmas to FGM/C. This is simply retarded logic. Whilst FGM/C is practiced in Islamic countries it has been discouraged by Islamic leaders. I can't recall many Christian leaders condemning Christmas, can you?

You even said in a previous post "This practice is often associated with the religion of Islam, and is most often perfomed in Middle Eastern and North African countries". I've pointed to evidence that says otherwise, and now you're changing tack and saying it's a cultural practice and not a religious one, which is what I have said from the very start, and trying to palm it off as your own.

Cheap tactics, tsk tsk.

Jaekus wrote:

For starters, we are not talking about stonings or honour killings, and I have not mentioned these things so please don't try to put words in my mouth.

Secondly, you are comparing Christmas to FGM/C. This is simply retarded logic. Whilst FGM/C is practiced in Islamic countries it has been discouraged by Islamic leaders. I can't recall many Christian leaders condemning Christmas, can you?

You even said in a previous post "This practice is often associated with the religion of Islam, and is most often perfomed in Middle Eastern and North African countries". I've pointed to evidence that says otherwise, and now you're changing tack and saying it's a cultural practice and not a religious one, which is what I have said from the very start, and trying to palm it off as your own.

Cheap tactics, tsk tsk.

Actually, I lumped stonings, FGM, persecution of women and gays, honor killings etc, as fucked up shit in Islamic culture way back, FGM was singled out by one of you guys to base an argument around leaving the other issues alone. Again this is not about condemning anything, it is about the fact, that it is a practice that exists.  Idon't give a fuck if it is condemned. It is still a practice exercised in Islamic countries. Hense it is associated with Islam. It does not matter if it has relgious backing or not. It is being done regardless, and it is being done with in Islam.

The very fact that you acknowledge that FGM is practiced in Islamic countries, kinda sorta is proving my point. WHich was, it is practiced in Islamic countires. I have long made the argument that Islam is as much a culture and a life style as it is a religion. I have made this argument long before you ever showed up in this forum. I am not changing tactics.

So, your point is these things exist. And they have a tendency to exist in countries that also are predominantly Islamic.

I'm sure that's not news to anyone who can read.

But really, what are your motivations here? Continually banging about why Islam is so bad here, what is wrong about it there... in fact, all you ever do on these forums is to constantly push your point of view about why you hate Islam. You could just put it all in one post and save the time and space, because this is certainly not "contributing" as you like to think it is.

Yes, you hate Islam, we got that a long time ago. zzzzzzz

I still think a mosque would be a good thing for New York, here is my argument:

- Apart from the occasional terrorist act Islamics are pretty law-abiding -> Crime goes down, property values go up, the quality of businesses in the area goes up and so on, a positive circle of reinforcement.

- Generally speaking the incidence of white trash converting to Islam is pretty low -> Fewer white trash, see above. Muslims don't generally do the sagging thing or tool around in pickups with dead cute animals roped to them as hillbillies do -> See above.

See much of this in muslim neighbourhoods?



Didn't think so.

- Same thing for black people. They're too busy with their happy-clappy rock gospel to be interested in Islam, they and their pimpin' rap culture would better be squeezed out by halal kebab carts and rug shops.
Given the choice between

And

I know which I'd pick.

- Brown people, OK you got me there - but at least they aren't black, which has to be a plus.

- Its not a synagogue, so no problems with outright scams or flaky business practices.




- Its not a Catholic Church, pretty sure a bit of Sharia law would clear the whole city of kiddy-fiddlers actually.

(Catholics are evil, it says so here https://theislamicstandard.wordpress.co … ic-church/ - read it all and agree. If you don't you're still wrong.)

- The gentle vuvuzela-like call to prayer 6 times a day wafting from the minarets, starting at dawn (Mecca Time) and continuing until dawn - 365 days a year, would have a calming effect on the whole area - within earshot at least.

- Sharia Police don't take any crap. This is what happens if they catch you whistling.

Taggers just disappear.
NYPD are big fat pussies in comparison.

- Crazy Islamics probably wouldn't crash aeroplanes into the area, unless they're from a different Islamic sect - in which case I suppose its more likely they would - but given all the benefits listed above it all cancels out.

- Muslim girls are hot, and American.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-07-12 04:44:02)

Well either lowing is wandering in the desert or he's accepted my argument

Dilbert_X wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjGJPPRD3u0

Epic TBH

Thank God, not all americans buy that shit.

Pat Condell
No mosque at Ground Zero

Sarah Palin's post from Yahoo News was removed when she was talking about this.

west-phoenix-az wrote:

Pat Condell
No mosque at Ground Zero

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4

Hey cool, it's an aging failed comedian!

I bet he's very knowledgeable on this kind of shit!

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

west-phoenix-az wrote:

Pat Condell
No mosque at Ground Zero

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjS0Novt3X4

Hey cool, it's an aging failed comedian!

I bet he's very knowledgeable on this kind of shit!

He's actually pretty accurate on most things.