every single one of those events are directly associated and practiced within Islam. Or do you think you can not search any one of those topics without pulling up Islam, a coincidence? Again denial is not an argument.Uzique wrote:
err no lowing, don't be fucking stupid... genital mutilation is not islamic, which you conveniently left off your check-list.
and practices like stoning and honor killing are historically local to the area and not specifically islamic... middle-eastern traditions as much as religious doctrine.
denial? lowing find me where in the koran it instructs genital mutilation.
it is well known that genital mutilation and female castration is a practice of african TRIBAL culture. because of the historical presence of islam and christianity in africa, many of these tribes are now either catholic-christians or muslims, yes. but you wouldn't say that GENITAL MUTILATION is a christian practice now, would you? it's a part of the area's culture and tradition that precedes the arrival of organized religion. period.
if you don't get that point then you are lost.
it is well known that genital mutilation and female castration is a practice of african TRIBAL culture. because of the historical presence of islam and christianity in africa, many of these tribes are now either catholic-christians or muslims, yes. but you wouldn't say that GENITAL MUTILATION is a christian practice now, would you? it's a part of the area's culture and tradition that precedes the arrival of organized religion. period.
if you don't get that point then you are lost.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Yup you are correct, see no denial, now you try. Nice redirect by the way.nlsme1 wrote:
Christianity is the religion of pedophiles. They also get to have multiple wives. Seeings how we take the actions of the minority and equate them to the religion itself.
"This practice is often associated with the religion of Islam, and is most often perfomed in Middle Eastern and North African countries"Uzique wrote:
denial? lowing find me where in the koran it instructs genital mutilation.
it is well known that genital mutilation and female castration is a practice of african TRIBAL culture. because of the historical presence of islam and christianity in africa, many of these tribes are now either catholic-christians or muslims, yes. but you wouldn't say that GENITAL MUTILATION is a christian practice now, would you? it's a part of the area's culture and tradition that precedes the arrival of organized religion. period.
if you don't get that point then you are lost.
"FGM is not a religious practice required by the Islamic faith. It has, however, become a "law by custom." Neither of the two main sources of Muslim law, the Koran and the Sunnah, mention the practice, and most Islamic scholars agree that it is not an Islamic religious rite. The practice has become important to Islam because it is associated with female sexual purity".
Regardless, of where and how it started, it is accociated with Islam and Islamic culture, so yes, you are denying that. Since Islam is a culture as much as it is a religion, it is safe to say these things, stonings, genital mutilation, persecution of women and gays, is part of Islamic culture and why can we say this? Because it is. Are they not about to stone a woman in Iran? Did Inot read something about that?
Just like the word CHristmas is not in the bible, however, are you prepared to say Christmas is not associated with the birth of Christ by Christians?
Last edited by lowing (2010-07-08 15:02:46)
it is associated but isnt really his birthdaylowing wrote:
Just like the word CHristmas is not in the bible, however, are you prepared to say Christmas is not associated with the birth of Christ by Christians?
associated does not mean 'is'. people associate washington d.c. with american politics but it does not make every person there a politician. people associate the southern states with confederate rednecks but it does not mean that every inhabitant is like something from 'deliverance'. it is associated for the very reason that sub-saharan africa and the arabic-north were taken over with christian or islamic theology. african tribal culture has, sure, probably been incorporated into local law... which is enforced by islam. it's more like islam being flexible enough to allow tribal traditions to continue, rather than islam being brutal and instructing african's to start cutting each other's clitorises off.lowing wrote:
"This practice is often associated with the religion of Islam, and is most often perfomed in Middle Eastern and North African countries"Uzique wrote:
denial? lowing find me where in the koran it instructs genital mutilation.
it is well known that genital mutilation and female castration is a practice of african TRIBAL culture. because of the historical presence of islam and christianity in africa, many of these tribes are now either catholic-christians or muslims, yes. but you wouldn't say that GENITAL MUTILATION is a christian practice now, would you? it's a part of the area's culture and tradition that precedes the arrival of organized religion. period.
if you don't get that point then you are lost.
"FGM is not a religious practice required by the Islamic faith. It has, however, become a "law by custom." Neither of the two main sources of Muslim law, the Koran and the Sunnah, mention the practice, and most Islamic scholars agree that it is not an Islamic religious rite. The practice has become important to Islam because it is associated with female sexual purity".
Regardless, of where and how it started, it is accociated with Islam and Islamic culture, so yes, you are denying that. Since Islam is a culture as much as it is a religion, it is safe to say these things, stonings, genital mutilation, persecution of women and gays, is part of Islamic culture and why can we say this? Because it is. Are they not about to stone a woman in Iran? Did Inot read something about that?
Just like the word CHristmas is not in the bible, however, are you prepared to say Christmas is not associated with the birth of Christ by Christians?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
OT
Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting
Religion Of PeaceFemale genital cutting (FGC), also known as female genital mutilation (FGM), female circumcision, or female genital mutilation/cutting (FGM/C), is any procedure involving the partial or total removal of the external female genitalia or other injury to the female genital organs "whether for cultural, religious or other non-therapeutic reasons."[1]
..
FGC is practiced throughout the world, with the practice concentrated most heavily in Asia and Africa, and less in central Balkans and South America. Opposition is motivated by concerns regarding the consent (or lack thereof, in most cases) of the patient, and subsequently the safety and long-term consequences of the procedures. In the past several decades, there have been many concerted efforts by the World Health Organization (WHO) to end the practice of FGC. The United Nations has also declared February 6 as "International Day of Zero Tolerance to Female Genital Mutilation".[8][9] In May 2010, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) suggested that U.S. law might be changed to permit doctors to perform a "ceremonial pinprick, or small nick" as a compromise intended to "play a role in the eventual eradication of FGC",[10][11] but later rescinded this suggestion.[12]
...
The UNICEF reported that: "... Al-Azhar Supreme Council of Islamic Research, the highest religious authority in Egypt, issued a statement saying FGM/C has no basis in core Islamic law or any of its partial provisions and that it is harmful and should not be practised."
Coptic Pope Shenouda, the leader of Egypt's minority Christian community, said that neither the Qur'an nor the Bible demand or mention female circumcision.
...
In Mauritania, where "health campaigners estimate that more than 70 percent of Mauritanian girls undergo the partial or total removal of their external genitalia for non-medical reasons", 34 Islamic scholars signed a fatwa banning the practice in January 2010. Their aim was to prevent people from citing religion as a justification for genital mutilation.[77]
Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting
Last edited by Beduin (2010-07-08 15:12:36)
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
...show me the schematic
THat fact matters little to Christians. It is still part of CHristian tradition and culture, just like that other shit is part of Islamic tradition and culture.RTHKI wrote:
it is associated but isnt really his birthdaylowing wrote:
Just like the word CHristmas is not in the bible, however, are you prepared to say Christmas is not associated with the birth of Christ by Christians?
Again, denying that is not an argument.
Last edited by lowing (2010-07-08 15:42:43)
read up.Beduin wrote:
OTReligion Of PeaceFemale genital cutting (FGC), also known as female genital mutilation (FGM), female circumcision, or female genital mutilation/cutting (FGM/C), is any procedure involving the partial or total removal of the external female genitalia or other injury to the female genital organs "whether for cultural, religious or other non-therapeutic reasons."[1]
..
FGC is practiced throughout the world, with the practice concentrated most heavily in Asia and Africa, and less in central Balkans and South America. Opposition is motivated by concerns regarding the consent (or lack thereof, in most cases) of the patient, and subsequently the safety and long-term consequences of the procedures. In the past several decades, there have been many concerted efforts by the World Health Organization (WHO) to end the practice of FGC. The United Nations has also declared February 6 as "International Day of Zero Tolerance to Female Genital Mutilation".[8][9] In May 2010, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) suggested that U.S. law might be changed to permit doctors to perform a "ceremonial pinprick, or small nick" as a compromise intended to "play a role in the eventual eradication of FGC",[10][11] but later rescinded this suggestion.[12]
...
The UNICEF reported that: "... Al-Azhar Supreme Council of Islamic Research, the highest religious authority in Egypt, issued a statement saying FGM/C has no basis in core Islamic law or any of its partial provisions and that it is harmful and should not be practised."
Coptic Pope Shenouda, the leader of Egypt's minority Christian community, said that neither the Qur'an nor the Bible demand or mention female circumcision.
...
In Mauritania, where "health campaigners estimate that more than 70 percent of Mauritanian girls undergo the partial or total removal of their external genitalia for non-medical reasons", 34 Islamic scholars signed a fatwa banning the practice in January 2010. Their aim was to prevent people from citing religion as a justification for genital mutilation.[77]
Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting
I think building a mosque at ground zero would be a good thing.
Might get it finished sooner than the 'Freedom Fries Tower', do they even have the drawings done yet?
Might get it finished sooner than the 'Freedom Fries Tower', do they even have the drawings done yet?
Fuck Israel
Maybe you should take your own suggestions for once.lowing wrote:
read up.Beduin wrote:
OTReligion Of PeaceFemale genital cutting (FGC), also known as female genital mutilation (FGM), female circumcision, or female genital mutilation/cutting (FGM/C), is any procedure involving the partial or total removal of the external female genitalia or other injury to the female genital organs "whether for cultural, religious or other non-therapeutic reasons."[1]
..
FGC is practiced throughout the world, with the practice concentrated most heavily in Asia and Africa, and less in central Balkans and South America. Opposition is motivated by concerns regarding the consent (or lack thereof, in most cases) of the patient, and subsequently the safety and long-term consequences of the procedures. In the past several decades, there have been many concerted efforts by the World Health Organization (WHO) to end the practice of FGC. The United Nations has also declared February 6 as "International Day of Zero Tolerance to Female Genital Mutilation".[8][9] In May 2010, the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) suggested that U.S. law might be changed to permit doctors to perform a "ceremonial pinprick, or small nick" as a compromise intended to "play a role in the eventual eradication of FGC",[10][11] but later rescinded this suggestion.[12]
...
The UNICEF reported that: "... Al-Azhar Supreme Council of Islamic Research, the highest religious authority in Egypt, issued a statement saying FGM/C has no basis in core Islamic law or any of its partial provisions and that it is harmful and should not be practised."
Coptic Pope Shenouda, the leader of Egypt's minority Christian community, said that neither the Qur'an nor the Bible demand or mention female circumcision.
...
In Mauritania, where "health campaigners estimate that more than 70 percent of Mauritanian girls undergo the partial or total removal of their external genitalia for non-medical reasons", 34 Islamic scholars signed a fatwa banning the practice in January 2010. Their aim was to prevent people from citing religion as a justification for genital mutilation.[77]
Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_gen … us_aspectsThe traditional cultural practices of FGC predate Christianity and Islam. A Greek papyrus from 163 B.C. mentions girls in Egypt undergoing circumcision and it is widely accepted to have originated in Egypt and the Nile valley at the time of the Pharaohs. Evidence from mummies have shown both Type I and Type III FGC present.[44] (Note that the earliest evidence of male circumcision is also from Ancient Egypt.)
The UNICEF reported that: "... Al-Azhar Supreme Council of Islamic Research, the highest religious authority in Egypt, issued a statement saying FGM/C has no basis in core Islamic law or any of its partial provisions and that it is harmful and should not be practised."
Coptic Pope Shenouda, the leader of Egypt's minority Christian community, said that neither the Qur'an nor the Bible demand or mention female circumcision.
These are FACTS. You can palm it off as denial all you like, but I think you're the one in denial here.
Last edited by Jaekus (2010-07-08 22:17:19)
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
...show me the schematic
I think it was 11 Bravo who said we should be very careful when using anything happening in Africa as a yardstick for anything.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Only by later appropriation. Christmas was originally a pagan festival, much like Easter. The Christian festivals typically fill in for the original festivals.RTHKI wrote:
it is associated but isnt really his birthdaylowing wrote:
Just like the word CHristmas is not in the bible, however, are you prepared to say Christmas is not associated with the birth of Christ by Christians?
The fact Christmas is associated with Christ is all down to the way the Romans wanted to smooth the transition to Christianity by using existing mythology and festivals that people were familiar with.
Are they?lowing wrote:
every single one of those events are directly associated and practiced within Islam. Or do you think you can not search any one of those topics without pulling up Islam, a coincidence? Again denial is not an argument.Uzique wrote:
err no lowing, don't be fucking stupid... genital mutilation is not islamic, which you conveniently left off your check-list.
and practices like stoning and honor killing are historically local to the area and not specifically islamic... middle-eastern traditions as much as religious doctrine.
Where is your case to show that they are Islamic practices and not local cultural practices?
I would say that the fact these things are not seen in Islamic states or large Islamic communities outside the Middle East/North Africa is a good indication that they are in fact a local cultural phenomena, not Islamic at all.
As for genital mutilation - since that is practiced by some Islamic communities, some Jewish communities and some Christian communities - I think it is fairly clear that this is also something that is not specific to Islam (to Abrahamic religions possibly).
It's already been shown that FGM/C is a cultural practice that pre-dates either Christianity or Islamic teachings, and neither of these religions encourage or even mention it in any of their sacred texts.
............and it has already been shown that Christmas is not in the bible either, yet it is most definitely associated with Christianity.Jaekus wrote:
It's already been shown that FGM/C is a cultural practice that pre-dates either Christianity or Islamic teachings, and neither of these religions encourage or even mention it in any of their sacred texts.
It is the same with FGM, honor killings, stonings, etc, and why? Well, like it or not, you already know the reason why.
Dismiss... check.
Deny... also check.
Deny... also check.
Last edited by Jaekus (2010-07-10 14:06:23)
And also once again some quick 10 second research shows:lowing wrote:
............and it has already been shown that Christmas is not in the bible either, yet it is most definitely associated with Christianity.Jaekus wrote:
It's already been shown that FGM/C is a cultural practice that pre-dates either Christianity or Islamic teachings, and neither of these religions encourage or even mention it in any of their sacred texts.
It is the same with FGM, honor killings, stonings, etc, and why? Well, like it or not, you already know the reason why.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChristmasChristmas[3] or Christmas Day[4][5] is a holiday observed mostly on December 25[6] to commemorate the birth of Jesus, the central figure of Christianity.[7][8]
...
Although nominally a Christian holiday, Christmas is also widely celebrated by many non-Christians,[1][13] and many of its popular celebratory customs have pre-Christian or secular themes and origins.
By contrast there is more there to say FGM isn't a Muslim practice, but rather a cultural one.
Christmas is a Christian practice, it's even got CHRIST in the name.
Very, very poor form there, Mr Forum Troll.
Last edited by Jaekus (2010-07-10 14:13:18)
Not really sure what I dismissed or denied,Jaekus wrote:
Dismiss... check.
Deny... also check.
I readily accept that Christmas is associated with Christianitym even though it is not part of the bible, and stonings, honor killings is like wise associated with Islam. What has been dismissed or denied?
and has already been pointed out, Islam is not just a religion, but just as much a culture as well.Jaekus wrote:
And also once again some quick 10 second research shows:lowing wrote:
............and it has already been shown that Christmas is not in the bible either, yet it is most definitely associated with Christianity.Jaekus wrote:
It's already been shown that FGM/C is a cultural practice that pre-dates either Christianity or Islamic teachings, and neither of these religions encourage or even mention it in any of their sacred texts.
It is the same with FGM, honor killings, stonings, etc, and why? Well, like it or not, you already know the reason why.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChristmasChristmas[3] or Christmas Day[4][5] is a holiday observed mostly on December 25[6] to commemorate the birth of Jesus, the central figure of Christianity.[7][8]
...
Although nominally a Christian holiday, Christmas is also widely celebrated by many non-Christians,[1][13] and many of its popular celebratory customs have pre-Christian or secular themes and origins.
By contrast there is more there to say FGM isn't a Muslim practice, but rather a cultural one.
Christmas is a Christian practice, it's even got CHRIST in the name.
Very, very poor form there, Mr Forum Troll.
also,is Sharia Law mentioned in the Koran, if not are you now going to maintain it has nothing to do with Islam?
Last edited by lowing (2010-07-10 14:28:16)
Dimiss once more...
Jaekus wrote:
The UNICEF reported that: "... Al-Azhar Supreme Council of Islamic Research, the highest religious authority in Egypt, issued a statement saying FGM/C has no basis in core Islamic law or any of its partial provisions and that it is harmful and should not be practised."
Yeah I read that, and it is irrelevant, because regardless of what he says, it is associated with Islamic culture.Jaekus wrote:
Dimiss once more...Jaekus wrote:
The UNICEF reported that: "... Al-Azhar Supreme Council of Islamic Research, the highest religious authority in Egypt, issued a statement saying FGM/C has no basis in core Islamic law or any of its partial provisions and that it is harmful and should not be practised."
also,is Sharia Law mentioned in the Koran, if not are you now going to maintain it has nothing to do with Islam?
Last edited by lowing (2010-07-10 14:32:32)
Dismiss - check.lowing wrote:
Yeah I read that, and it is irrelevant, because regardless of what he says, it is associated with Islamic culture.Jaekus wrote:
Dimiss once more...Jaekus wrote:
also,is Sharia Law mentioned in the Koran, if not are you now going to maintain it has nothing to do with Islam?
Deny - check.
+1Bertster7 wrote:
Dismiss - check.lowing wrote:
Yeah I read that, and it is irrelevant, because regardless of what he says, it is associated with Islamic culture.Jaekus wrote:
Dimiss once more...
also,is Sharia Law mentioned in the Koran, if not are you now going to maintain it has nothing to do with Islam?
Deny - check.