blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6931
Ayguel Oezkan has created waves before even taking office as social minister in the north-western German state of Lower Saxony.The 38-year-old, who is a member of Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU), said in an interview on Saturday that crucifixes have as little place in state schools as do headscarves.

"Christian symbols do not belong in state schools," Oezkan told  German weekly magazine Focus, adding that "schools should be neutral places where children can decide their religious orientation on their own. Just as head scarves do not belong in classrooms."Oezkan's comments have ruffled feathers in her own conservative party.Lower Saxony State Premiere Christian WulffBildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift:  Wulff says the cross and the CDU are 'inseparable'

Lower Saxony state premier, Christian Wulff, distanced himself from the designated minister's remarks."Christian symbols, above all the crucifix in schools, are welcomed by the state government in Lower Saxony in keeping with the practice of tolerant education on the basis of Christian values," Wulff told news agency dpa.He added that students wearing headscarves were also tolerated on grounds of religious freedom but not teachers."Ms Oezkan expressed her personal opinion on religious neutrality, but she's not questioning the practice in Lower Saxony."But Stefan Mueller, CDU commissioner for integration, was openly critical."[Oezkan's remarks] are as absurd as they are appalling," Mueller said in a statement. "Politicians who want to ban the cross in state schools should think twice about whether representing a Christian party is the right choice. The crucifix is the foundation of our identity, culture, and values," he added.

source
Well no wonder Germans are in an uproar would like to see an German or someone from Western world trying to implement a similar procedure in Saudi Arabia, or Iran... dont think it would fly well....

"The percentage of Saudi citizens who are Christians is officially zero, as Saudi Arabia forbids religious conversion from Islam and punishes it by death."
"Saudi Arabia is an Islamic state that practices Wahhabism and restricts all other religions, including the possession of religious items such as the Bible, crucifixes, and Stars of David.Christians are arrested and lashed in public for practicing their faith openly." "In Afghanistan, Abdul Rahman, a 41-year-old citizen, was charged in 2006 with rejecting Islam, a crime punishable by death under Sharia law."
This is not to say all Muslims are bad, there are good and bad people in every culture.....
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6508|teh FIN-land
bloody annoying twat. if people could just do what they like and leave others to their own devices the world would be a happier place.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

blademaster wrote:

source
Well no wonder Germans are in an uproar would like to see an German or someone from Western world trying to implement a similar procedure in Saudi Arabia, or Iran... dont think it would fly well....

"The percentage of Saudi citizens who are Christians is officially zero, as Saudi Arabia forbids religious conversion from Islam and punishes it by death."
"Saudi Arabia is an Islamic state that practices Wahhabism and restricts all other religions, including the possession of religious items such as the Bible, crucifixes, and Stars of David.Christians are arrested and lashed in public for practicing their faith openly." "In Afghanistan, Abdul Rahman, a 41-year-old citizen, was charged in 2006 with rejecting Islam, a crime punishable by death under Sharia law."
This is not to say all Muslims are bad, there are good and bad people in every culture.....
Nope it doesn't say all Muslims are bad, but it does not paint a pretty picture of Islam now does it?
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6756
well lowing the Westboro Baptist Church doesn't paint a pretty picture of christianity... nor did mr. Koresh...

guess they all have their bad eggs!
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Uzique wrote:

well lowing the Westboro Baptist Church doesn't paint a pretty picture of christianity... nor did mr. Koresh...

guess they all have their bad eggs!
And how many planes trains and automobiles, ships, marketplaces, schools,  buildings, women and children did Koresh or the WBC blow up? How many has died at the hands of the WBC or Koresh? Are you really prepared to make that comparison? I do not think so. Ya might wanna back up and regroup on your train of thought.

Try talking about the crusades, as stupid as that argumetn is, that is even a better argument than the one you are presenting now.

Last edited by lowing (2010-04-28 04:36:14)

Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|6035|شمال
wait, isn't this what EU wants? Schools should be free from any religious symbols?

What is the point of this thread?
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6508|teh FIN-land

lowing wrote:

And how many planes trains and automobiles, ships, marketplaces, schools,  buildings, women and children did Koresh or the WBC blow up? How many has died at the hands of the WBC or Koresh? Are you really prepared to make that comparison? I do not think so. Ya might wanna back up and regroup on your train of thought.

Try talking about the crusades, as stupid as that argumetn is, that is even a better argument than the one you are presenting now.
and how many planes trains autombiles etc etc has Ayguel Oezkan blown up? None I imagine. Yet you are obviously willing to make that comparison. How odd.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Beduin wrote:

wait, isn't this what EU wants? Schools should be free from any religious symbols?

What is the point of this thread?
Western schools should be free of Islam, nothing wrong with an historically Christian nation being a Christian nation.
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6756

lowing wrote:

Beduin wrote:

wait, isn't this what EU wants? Schools should be free from any religious symbols?

What is the point of this thread?
Western schools should be free of Islam, nothing wrong with an historically Christian nation being a Christian nation.
the minister has said there's no reason for crucifixes to be in schools... not launching a campaign for a koran-per-classroom
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6906|London, England
Germany should go back to its real German roots, Christianity was made by Jews from the Middle East.

Anyway, I dunno what Saudi Arabia or Islam has to do with this. According to the OP they even said headscarves should be banned from schools. It's more about separating religion from schools than about imposing Islam onto the Christians of Germany and banning Christianity...
Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|6035|شمال

lowing wrote:

Beduin wrote:

wait, isn't this what EU wants? Schools should be free from any religious symbols?

What is the point of this thread?
Western schools should be free of Islam, nothing wrong with an historically Christian nation being a Christian nation.
We are talking about religious symbols
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|6917|Finland

Beduin wrote:

lowing wrote:

Beduin wrote:

wait, isn't this what EU wants? Schools should be free from any religious symbols?

What is the point of this thread?
Western schools should be free of Islam, nothing wrong with an historically Christian nation being a Christian nation.
We are talking about religious symbols
..and the removal of them altogether. It's not like the crucifix should be in this guys opinion changed into a crescent moon, star of david or pentagram.
I need around tree fiddy.
Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|6035|شمال
Strange
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

ruisleipa wrote:

lowing wrote:

And how many planes trains and automobiles, ships, marketplaces, schools,  buildings, women and children did Koresh or the WBC blow up? How many has died at the hands of the WBC or Koresh? Are you really prepared to make that comparison? I do not think so. Ya might wanna back up and regroup on your train of thought.

Try talking about the crusades, as stupid as that argumetn is, that is even a better argument than the one you are presenting now.
and how many planes trains autombiles etc etc has Ayguel Oezkan blown up? None I imagine. Yet you are obviously willing to make that comparison. How odd.
Uhhhh nope I didn't make that comparison. I quoted a paragraph in the OP and his fuckin' name was not mentioned in it, only the laws of some fucked up Islamic countries with some fucked up Islamic law. So try again.

Last edited by lowing (2010-04-28 05:59:59)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Beduin wrote:

lowing wrote:

Beduin wrote:

wait, isn't this what EU wants? Schools should be free from any religious symbols?

What is the point of this thread?
Western schools should be free of Islam, nothing wrong with an historically Christian nation being a Christian nation.
We are talking about religious symbols
and why should a Christian nation be forced to remove its Christian symbols again?
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6906|London, England
You can't complain about Saudi Arabia and its treatments towards non-Muslims and how bad it is, and then talk about how Christian nations should be free and able to put symbols up everywhere as they please because they're Christian nations and people should stop persecuting Christianity.

I guess the only reason Saudi was brought up was because the minister is Muslim, but like I said, the OP states the minister also said headscarves have little place too. It's more of a case of separating religion from society rather than anything else.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Mekstizzle wrote:

You can't complain about Saudi Arabia and its treatments towards non-Muslims and how bad it is, and then talk about how Christian nations should be free and able to put symbols up everywhere as they please because they're Christian nations and people should stop persecuting Christianity.

I guess the only reason Saudi was brought up was because the minister is Muslim, but like I said, the OP states the minister also said headscarves have little place too. It's more of a case of separating religion from society rather than anything else.
I am leaning toward thinking that a Christian nation showing its Christian symbols is a little different than killing someone because of their faith BY LAW. That is just me though.
So yeah I think one can complain

Last edited by lowing (2010-04-28 05:58:30)

DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6967|Disaster Free Zone
Would this have been news had the minister not been Muslim?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

DrunkFace wrote:

Would this have been news had the minister not been Muslim?
Yeah because shit like this is news here. A Christian nation, the US, being forced to take down religious based symbols. Islam having nothing to do with it.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6906|London, England

lowing wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

You can't complain about Saudi Arabia and its treatments towards non-Muslims and how bad it is, and then talk about how Christian nations should be free and able to put symbols up everywhere as they please because they're Christian nations and people should stop persecuting Christianity.

I guess the only reason Saudi was brought up was because the minister is Muslim, but like I said, the OP states the minister also said headscarves have little place too. It's more of a case of separating religion from society rather than anything else.
I am leaning toward thinking that a Christian nation showing its Christian symbols is a little different than killing someone because of their faith BY LAW. That is just me though.
So yeah I think one can complain
You don't seem to be able to form an opinion of religion in society without pointing to Saudi Arabia as a benchmark of how things must be before religion is deemed as going too far in society. That's how I see it.

You talk about Christian societies and such and how they should be able to do whatever they want but then why would you complain about Islamic societies. Yeah, I'll agree that Islamic countries do tend to be worse, but the hypocrisy still remains.

The only reason Saudi (infact, this entire thread) was brought up in the first place was because the minister was a Muslim. The inability to assume that this Muslim might just have these kinds of views when it comes to religion and society, just like anyone else might, and that they probably don't agree with Saudi policy either is where your flaws show up. You're assuming this person is from Saudi Arabia, barging into German politics and demanding that all Christian symbols be removed. Your assumption of their hypocrisy is infact... yours.


Basically, you think all Muslims are right wing nutjobs with their own personal Islamic agendas. You wouldn't be able to comprehend some sort of left-leaning Muslim politician or something

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2010-04-28 06:11:10)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

lowing wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

Would this have been news had the minister not been Muslim?
Yeah because shit like this is news here. A Christian nation, the US, being forced to take down religious based symbols. Islam having nothing to do with it.
The US is not a christian nation.

OP: Good for him, religion is BS and has no place in public.
Fuck Israel
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6967|Disaster Free Zone

lowing wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

Would this have been news had the minister not been Muslim?
Yeah because shit like this is news here. A Christian nation, the US, being forced to take down religious based symbols. Islam having nothing to do with it.
Sad isn't it.
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6756

DrunkFace wrote:

lowing wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

Would this have been news had the minister not been Muslim?
Yeah because shit like this is news here. A Christian nation, the US, being forced to take down religious based symbols. Islam having nothing to do with it.
Sad isn't it.
it made the news entirely because the minister is Muslim - and i feel sorry for the politician, operating in merkel's CDU. the religious-ideology political party should have died out 400 years ago, it's practically akin to absolute monarchy in my opinion, when you consider just how 'fair' and 'democratically' one can rule. germany should drop the multitude of christian parties that they have in their system- as well as their current ruling coalition - and should get with the fucking program and modernize. the christian crucifix has as much right to be shown in schools to the spiritual tabula rasa of our young as the crescent moon, star of david, or scientologist-fucking-handbook does. leave it out: let them be educated through a free distribution of pure knowledge, not through the stain-glass window perception of a christian theology. keep yer trinkets and symbols for the home.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7002

Uzique wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

lowing wrote:


Yeah because shit like this is news here. A Christian nation, the US, being forced to take down religious based symbols. Islam having nothing to do with it.
Sad isn't it.
it made the news entirely because the minister is Muslim - and i feel sorry for the politician, operating in merkel's CDU. the religious-ideology political party should have died out 400 years ago, it's practically akin to absolute monarchy in my opinion, when you consider just how 'fair' and 'democratically' one can rule. germany should drop the multitude of christian parties that they have in their system- as well as their current ruling coalition - and should get with the fucking program and modernize. the christian crucifix has as much right to be shown in schools to the spiritual tabula rasa of our young as the crescent moon, star of david, or scientologist-fucking-handbook does. leave it out: let them be educated through a free distribution of pure knowledge, not through the stain-glass window perception of a christian theology. keep yer trinkets and symbols for the home.
It's like Massachusetts during colonial-independence era all over again!
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
jord
Member
+2,382|6963|The North, beyond the wall.
I wish I was born 50 years later when religion has all but fizzled out.

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