I notice you didn't post a link to where I typed that.13/f/taiwan wrote:
Stop beating around the bush and just say it already ATG.ATG wrote:
I hate Hispanics just as much as lowing hates Muslims
Legally they can't be pulled over because they look like they are Mexican. If an officer pulls them over for that reason alone the officer is breaking the law. If you are concerned about cops breaking the law then we should pass a law that cracks down on shitty cops instead of letting illegals roam the state as they please.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Because Mexican citizens legally traveling in AZ can be pulled over because....THEY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE MEXICAN.
I'm curious as to how an illegal looks any different than anyone else? Scarlet letter time?
Last edited by west-phoenix-az (2010-04-28 15:24:30)
No, but you have. You can hardly post against me without racking personal shit into you posts.eleven bravo wrote:
I see what you did thereATG wrote:
Dude, I know what you are trying to do. You want me to call you a bastard anchor baby. .eleven bravo wrote:
his wife is 1/16th mexican. dont be ridiculous.
I would take anything you say a little more serious if you just werent so proud of your 8th grade education
Im certainly not going to call a you a failure of a provider and coward
again, thats pretty naive of you to think thats going to happen. I mean, you said it yourself, you know cops personally. Unless you happen to know the only law enforcement officers in the world that is not willing to bend the rules just a little bit for the pursuit of what they see as justice.west-phoenix-az wrote:
Legally they can't be pulled over because they look like they are Mexican. If an officer pulls them over for that reason alone the officer is breaking the law. If you are concerned about cops breaking the law then we should pass a law that cracks down on shitty cops, not let illegals roam the state as they please.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Because Mexican citizens legally traveling in AZ can be pulled over because....THEY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE MEXICAN.
I'm curious as to how an illegal looks any different than anyone else? Scarlet letter time?
if everybody you mean lowing and yourself you got me.ATG wrote:
No, but you have. You can hardly post against me without racking personal shit into you posts.eleven bravo wrote:
I see what you did thereATG wrote:
Dude, I know what you are trying to do. You want me to call you a bastard anchor baby. .
I would take anything you say a little more serious if you just werent so proud of your 8th grade education
Im certainly not going to call a you a failure of a provider and coward
That why I perma banned you. You are too personal without anything but emotion.
You will eventually ragequit or get permed again because you are incapable of debating a topic. Everybody knows it.
Last edited by eleven bravo (2010-04-28 15:38:16)
Kens post is proof that the typical liberal doesn't bother to read the laws they are complaining about. All emotion and no facts.eleven bravo wrote:
again, thats pretty naive of you to think thats going to happen. I mean, you said it yourself, you know cops personally. Unless you happen to know the only law enforcement officers in the world that is not willing to bend the rules just a little bit for the pursuit of what they see as justice.west-phoenix-az wrote:
Legally they can't be pulled over because they look like they are Mexican. If an officer pulls them over for that reason alone the officer is breaking the law. If you are concerned about cops breaking the law then we should pass a law that cracks down on shitty cops, not let illegals roam the state as they please.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Because Mexican citizens legally traveling in AZ can be pulled over because....THEY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE MEXICAN.
I'm curious as to how an illegal looks any different than anyone else? Scarlet letter time?
el nerd-oeleven bravo wrote:
ive got class in an hour you fucking wierdo
after that Ive gotta write 16 legal briefs due by tomorrow.
What a load of horse dung.eleven bravo wrote:
ive got class in an hour you fucking wierdo
after that Ive gotta write 16 legal briefs due by tomorrow.
ATG wrote:
That why I perma banned you. You are too personal without anything but emotion.
FYI we never had gardeners growing up. I have 4 brothers, we all did the yardwork like good little children-slaves.ATG wrote:
Or is it that you like your boss hiring illegals to clean your office toilets for shit money?
Your parents likely have your lawn kept by illegal alien gardeners, who the fuck are you kidding?
I challenge you kenny. Go ask your parents gardeners for a drivers license. Post it.
If I am a racist, you sir are an ignorant fool.
You know what else I do?
You know it. Ask any of your spoiled south county associates.
ATG - I already showed you the problem I have with your logic - stat says x amount of hispanics commit y crime, you interpret 'hispanic' as illegal. I quoted where you said it and the stat. You then went into an incoherent diatribe about something completely different. Yes I am sorry, I cannot 'debate' on your level. I'll kindly ignore you know.ATG wrote:
Look, you or ken, or anybody opposed to this law is free to meet me in kcd's cage match thread.
No bans, no awms.
you bring your facts and links and I'll bring mine and we let the forum vote.
No takers?
Girlie men?
Ill-equipt to debate?
Bring it. I defy you. I mock your positions on illegal immigration.
In short, we're pretty much fucked, but that's why having an exit plan not just from your state but from this country is a good thing to have.ATG wrote:
Actually, the local cops have been told to not do the feds job, prior to this. A cop would pull somebody over who was speeding, he would write a ticket to a person who was using a stolen i.d. who would never appear in court.Mekstizzle wrote:
Personally, cops don't need any of this shit anyway. If they want to stop and ID someone they will find a way using existing laws in zero time. .
Driving without a license is a crime.
Driving without insurance is a crime.
Identity theft is a crime.
I agree, cops don't need a shit system like this. Arizona, Texas and soon Utah are simply pointing out that the epic failure of the feds is no longer acceptable.
The SLCPD’s own data shows that in 2008 44.25% of the crime in Salt Lake City was committed by Hispanics. To verify this, I contacted BCI which had the total crime in Salt Lake City as 46.78% with 81.82% of the murders and 75% of rapes being committed by Hispanics (see attached spreadsheet).
http://steveu.com/blog/2009/07/illegal- … civil.html
What that means is that we now have a crisis that is ripping this country apart.
81.82% of the homicides in Utah, where I am moving, are committed by hispanic illegal aliens.
This is a fucking scourge and if the feds position is that all people on u.s. soil are citizens then, shit is going to explode and blood will run in the streets.
While I enjoy the discourse with my European brethren I'd suggest that if you don't like what is happening, mind your own business. Look away until it's over. You guys are good at that.
The first generation of illegals are a net drain on the United States economy. Its not until the 2nd or 3rd generation that they become a net positive.rawls2 wrote:
Would you be factoring the tax revenues that each person would be bringing in? Hell, charge them twice the tax as citizens for a probationary period.
Last edited by Harmor (2010-04-28 22:16:30)
It is clear that Mexican authorities facilitate and profit from immigrants from further South being herded towards the U.S. border.MEXICO CITY – Amnesty International called the abuse of migrants in Mexico a major human rights crisis Wednesday, and accused some officials of turning a blind eye or even participating in the kidnapping, rape and murder of migrants.
At present, Article 67 of Mexico's Population Law says, "Authorities, whether federal, state or municipal ... are required to demand that foreigners prove their legal presence in the country, before attending to any issues."
Central American migrants are frequently pulled off trains, kidnapped en masse, held at gang hideouts and forced to call relatives in the U.S. to pay off the kidnappers. Such kidnappings affect thousands of migrants each year in Mexico, the report says.
Many are beaten, raped or killed in the process.
One of the main issues, Amnesty says, is that migrants fear they will be deported if they complain to Mexican authorities about abuses.
The Amnesty report said one female migrant told researchers that Mexican federal police had forced her group off a train and stolen their belongings.
The Arizona law — slated to take effect in late July or early August — makes it a state crime to be in the U.S. illegally and allows police to question anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant. Mexico has complained that the law would lend itself to racial profiling and discrimination.
You missed the key phrase "for any lawful contact made". That means the law enforcement officer has to have a legal reason to be interacting with the person in question. That means they can't just go up to the person and ask for their "papers". That isn't legal, as it violates the 4th Amendment of the US Constitution. However, if they stopped them for a traffic violation or something similar, that IS a lawful contact that does not violate the 4th Amendment and they CAN legally ask for proof of immigration status at that point. Aliens are required (by law) to have that on them at all times. US citizens are not. That is the one point where it would get sticky.Mekstizzle wrote:
Jumping into this cos something caught me eyeIt has alot of words saying this and that, but in reality they seem to be able to do just that.So the cops can't just go up to someone and say "Papuhz pleez".
"Where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien"
"When practicable"
"May not consider race"
It's all just words, in reality none of this applies. How would you enforce it? Unless you made police officers report and document every single person they stopped and asked them for papers, stating why they stopped them, what made them suspicious etc etc... that would probably cut down on the BS profiling and annoyance and such people are going to expect.
Also, I'm not even sure of if we have something similar here. I wouldn't be surprised if police officers in the UK would already be allowed to stop, search and ask for proof of legal residence whenever they feel like. Saying that, the problem of specifically "illegal" immigration here is much smaller than in the US. We don't have swathes of people who are staying here illegally. So it's a different situation for the cops. It's much smaller so you can have specialised units taking the responsibility instead of regular cops stopping random people.
Personally, cops don't need any of this shit anyway. If they want to stop and ID someone they will find a way using existing laws in zero time. I'm sure that already applies to the US too. Cops are cops. This law probably creates unnecessary controversy and also probably widens the gap between cops and community.
Someone needs to read Human Smoke. Far too many looked the other way.Uzique wrote:
we looked away while the holocaust was happening? im not quite sure that's how the history went...
KJ. That is patently UNTRUE. The wording of the law is crystal clear regarding that.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Because Mexican citizens legally traveling in AZ can be pulled over because....THEY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE MEXICAN.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
i'm so confused as to why Mexico is pissed off about this law
why don't they take better care of their country so that their citizens don't consider living as clandestine, illegal residents in another country?
I'm curious as to how an illegal looks any different than anyone else? Scarlet letter time?
Last edited by FEOS (2010-04-29 03:35:46)
+++++FEOS wrote:
You missed the key phrase "for any lawful contact made". That means the law enforcement officer has to have a legal reason to be interacting with the person in question. That means they can't just go up to the person and ask for their "papers". That isn't legal, as it violates the 4th Amendment of the US Constitution. However, if they stopped them for a traffic violation or something similar, that IS a lawful contact that does not violate the 4th Amendment and they CAN legally ask for proof of immigration status at that point. Aliens are required (by law) to have that on them at all times. US citizens are not. That is the one point where it would get sticky.Mekstizzle wrote:
Jumping into this cos something caught me eyeIt has alot of words saying this and that, but in reality they seem to be able to do just that.So the cops can't just go up to someone and say "Papuhz pleez".
"Where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien"
"When practicable"
"May not consider race"
It's all just words, in reality none of this applies. How would you enforce it? Unless you made police officers report and document every single person they stopped and asked them for papers, stating why they stopped them, what made them suspicious etc etc... that would probably cut down on the BS profiling and annoyance and such people are going to expect.
Also, I'm not even sure of if we have something similar here. I wouldn't be surprised if police officers in the UK would already be allowed to stop, search and ask for proof of legal residence whenever they feel like. Saying that, the problem of specifically "illegal" immigration here is much smaller than in the US. We don't have swathes of people who are staying here illegally. So it's a different situation for the cops. It's much smaller so you can have specialised units taking the responsibility instead of regular cops stopping random people.
Personally, cops don't need any of this shit anyway. If they want to stop and ID someone they will find a way using existing laws in zero time. I'm sure that already applies to the US too. Cops are cops. This law probably creates unnecessary controversy and also probably widens the gap between cops and community.Someone needs to read Human Smoke. Far too many looked the other way.Uzique wrote:
we looked away while the holocaust was happening? im not quite sure that's how the history went...KJ. That is patently UNTRUE. The wording of the law is crystal clear regarding that.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Because Mexican citizens legally traveling in AZ can be pulled over because....THEY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE MEXICAN.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
i'm so confused as to why Mexico is pissed off about this law
why don't they take better care of their country so that their citizens don't consider living as clandestine, illegal residents in another country?
I'm curious as to how an illegal looks any different than anyone else? Scarlet letter time?
Also, there are plenty of Mexican citizens who are blonde-haired, blue-eyed, euro-looking people. This law is just as applicable to them (and Canadians and Asians and...) as it is to anyone else.
Another point people seem to overlook: The Arizona electorate supports this measure more than two-to-one. That electorate includes a whole lot of people who would be negatively impacted if they thought racial profiling were to occur. And there's this other thing: Many of the Arizona cops are Hispanic, as well. I guess they'll be racially profiling their own "people", eh?
The bottomline is that the people who are screaming about this are the ones who aren't affected by it. Those who are (Hispanic population of Arizona) by and large don't have issue with it--in fact, quite the opposite. Yes, there are some protesters, but polling shows they are the minority.
I also know that the wording of probable cause laws are crystal clear and yet the cops still abuse those all the time. I know that from personal experience. FEOS you are wise and old enough to know that police are human and often twist the intent and letter of the law for their own and others' personal and political agendas. There's been numerous studies of racial profiling by police and this is just an extension of that. Don't be naive.FEOS wrote:
KJ. That is patently UNTRUE. The wording of the law is crystal clear regarding that.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Because Mexican citizens legally traveling in AZ can be pulled over because....THEY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE MEXICAN.Hurricane2k9 wrote:
i'm so confused as to why Mexico is pissed off about this law
why don't they take better care of their country so that their citizens don't consider living as clandestine, illegal residents in another country?
I'm curious as to how an illegal looks any different than anyone else? Scarlet letter time?
Also, there are plenty of Mexican citizens who are blonde-haired, blue-eyed, euro-looking people. This law is just as applicable to them (and Canadians and Asians and...) as it is to anyone else.
Another point people seem to overlook: The Arizona electorate supports this measure more than two-to-one. That electorate includes a whole lot of people who would be negatively impacted if they thought racial profiling were to occur. And there's this other thing: Many of the Arizona cops are Hispanic, as well. I guess they'll be racially profiling their own "people", eh?