Winston_Churchill
Bazinga!
+521|7024|Toronto | Canada

Zimmer wrote:

Could we possibly get back on track now?
I know I derailed it a bit, but this is ridiculous!
Says the guy who brought up trains

Jenspm
penis
+1,716|7018|St. Andrews / Oslo

Ioan92 wrote:

Everything is bullshit, including internet speeds. Why does it have to be so hard to have a good speed. It's shameful, especially when a shit hole of a country like Romania has higher speeds at like 5 euros per month.
Because I'd imagine spreading the internets to 14 Romanians is easier than across the entire UK.

On a somewhat more serious note, the sums needed to do stuff like this never fail to amaze me. Norway are in the process of getting the police over on digital radio, which is going to cost £360 million
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
TheEternalPessimist
Wibble
+412|6906|Mhz

Zimmer wrote:

So yeah
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8579333.stm

To be honest, that's bullshit. We don't have the resources nor the money to follow through with such a plan. I really don't see how this is going to be achieved. Most houses in the UK still use cable and Brown is saying that we're going to get speeds of 50mbps? Bollocks to that. Our whole internet system is flawed, with the new law getting passed on the 1st of April regarding illegal sites and the fact that providers right now (Easynet) are actively blocking sites like rapidshare without anybodys permission. We're too far behind to catch up by 2012. Same goes for shit like the railway.

On a side note note, he also mentions a new government portal that's going to have everything on it and connected to everything... I'd like to see that happen without major fuck ups... Oh wait.
I live in a shit hole and 50meg Virgin cable is dated for deployment down here in Q4 this year so if I can get it in this hovel of a city anyone can lol.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6951|NT, like Mick Dundee

Cheez wrote:

If it's anything like the Australian NBN, it'll be scrapped just as it sees light, so the new govt. can pissfart about for 4 years.

Also filters.
Don't forget blowing well over $30,000,000 or more in cash for zero net results.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6673
Wait Cable is bad now?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

mikkel wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

Yeah, I don't see how they're going to essentially fund fibre for the whole country. Sounds rather ambitious. I'm all for having plans like fibre internets for the whole country and high speed rail, it's about time we caught up with other European countries, but the costs seem massive, that must be a mistake that a line from London to Brum will be £30bn, surely.
Ask the U.S. how a $200 billion handout to telcos in the 90s got everyone 45Mbps fiber connections with countless digital TV channels. Oh wait.
Yep...  exactly...
BVC
Member
+325|6981
Can't some variants of cable go up to 100mbps with very little effort anyway?  And what about VDSL2?
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

I just hope Google picks my city. I know they are just doing it to show it can and should be done here.. But still .
Xbone Stormsurgezz
LostFate
Same shit, Different Arsehole
+95|6771|England
I think there's much bigger problems in this country that brown needs to sort out than super fast broadband.
mikkel
Member
+383|6887

Kmarion wrote:

I just hope Google picks my city. I know they are just doing it to show it can and should be done here.. But still .
It probably shouldn't be done in the manner that Google is proposing, but trial periods are always fun for consumers.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6392|eXtreme to the maX
For average internet does anyone need more than say 1Mbps?
File transfer is different but for the average person with email and youtube 50Mbps isn't going to change anything.

Ping and server response would be bigger factors I would have thought.
Fuck Israel
mikkel
Member
+383|6887

Dilbert_X wrote:

For average internet does anyone need more than say 1Mbps?
File transfer is different but for the average person with email and youtube 50Mbps isn't going to change anything.
It won't change much for e-mail, but the only-reads-emails-and-static-websites Internet persona is very much dying. YouTube certainly benefits from higher throughput, and a couple of years from now when half of the stuff on there will be 1080p, it'll be impossible to watch videos without half an hour of buffering.


Dilbert_X wrote:

Ping and server response would be bigger factors I would have thought.
Latency would go down, and response would be faster with more throughput.

Last edited by mikkel (2010-03-23 08:25:15)

DUnlimited
got any popo lolo intersting?
+1,160|6749|cuntshitlake

Dilbert_X wrote:

For average internet does anyone need more than say 1Mbps?
File transfer is different but for the average person with email and youtube 50Mbps isn't going to change anything.

Ping and server response would be bigger factors I would have thought.
I can barely stream 480p on youtube with 1Mbps, not to even talk about 720p / 1080p. Heavy file transfer aside, something around 8Mbps would be enough for most internet stuff.

1Mbps just does not cut it anymore today.

Last edited by DUnlimited (2010-03-23 08:25:44)

main battle tank karthus medikopter 117 megamegapowershot gg
Ioan92
Member
+337|6008
Are you guys talking in megabytes or bits?
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

I just hope Google picks my city. I know they are just doing it to show it can and should be done here.. But still .
It probably shouldn't be done in the manner that Google is proposing, but trial periods are always fun for consumers.
Google is doing it to show that it can be done.
Instead it says it hopes phone and cable companies will learn lessons from the experimental network that will help them hurry the rollout of their own faster systems.
But this is Google we’re talking about. It has massive influence in business, and, increasingly in regulatory circles. The announcement comes right on the heels of the federal government releasing the first round of funding for broadband networks to rural and underserved areas. It appears to be intended as an adjunct to the FCC’s own Broadband Plan, as if to say: “See, you can do it like this.”

Google loves challenging old business models with new technology ideas. Today’s announcement is the search giant’s opening salvo in a challenge to US broadband, which is monopolistic, slow and sees openness as a threat to profits.

“We hope this will serve as an example to other network operators that the open model should not be feared, but should be emulated,” Markham Erickson, Executive Director of the Open Internet Coalition, said in a release today. Google is the marquee member of the group. “Profit and openness are mistakenly seen to be in conflict; in fact we believe they are synergistic and amplifying,” Erickson said.

Google hopes that the new model will fire up the business of being a small, local ISP. That can only be good. The regulators have allowed the huge ISPs (AT&T, Verizon et al) to dominate the broadband business with sheer scale, forcing the smaller guys out. Imagine buying internet service from Bob’s ISP at a reasonable price; oh, and you get 1GB of throughput.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
DUnlimited
got any popo lolo intersting?
+1,160|6749|cuntshitlake

Ioan92 wrote:

Are you guys talking in megabytes or bits?
Mb = bit, MB = byte
main battle tank karthus medikopter 117 megamegapowershot gg
mikkel
Member
+383|6887

Kmarion wrote:

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

I just hope Google picks my city. I know they are just doing it to show it can and should be done here.. But still .
It probably shouldn't be done in the manner that Google is proposing, but trial periods are always fun for consumers.
Google is doing it to show that it can be done.
The concept of open access networks operated by private entities hasn't really proven to be tremendously successful in other deployments. It's a headache of failed interoperability, arguments over carrier rights, hardware issues, software issues, content provider rights and contracts, and a slew of other problems.

Where open access networks have been deployed, they've mostly either folded, or closed back up after purchasing one or more of the providers delivering content on the network. They have a very bad track record so far.

Last edited by mikkel (2010-03-23 16:14:41)

FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6786|so randum
ahahahahhahhahahahahahahhaaaaaahahahhhaaa

hahahah

ha

ha
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

mikkel wrote:


It probably shouldn't be done in the manner that Google is proposing, but trial periods are always fun for consumers.
Google is doing it to show that it can be done.
The concept of open access networks operated by private entities hasn't really proven to be tremendously successful in other deployments. It's a headache of failed interoperability, arguments over carrier rights, hardware issues, software issues, content provider rights and contracts, and a slew of other problems.

Where open access networks have been deployed, they've mostly either folded, or closed back up after purchasing one or more of the providers delivering content on the network. They have a very bad track record so far.
I seriously have no clue .. what are you talking about specifically? Nothing like this has EVER been done by a company of this scale and success.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
mikkel
Member
+383|6887

Kmarion wrote:

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


Google is doing it to show that it can be done.
The concept of open access networks operated by private entities hasn't really proven to be tremendously successful in other deployments. It's a headache of failed interoperability, arguments over carrier rights, hardware issues, software issues, content provider rights and contracts, and a slew of other problems.

Where open access networks have been deployed, they've mostly either folded, or closed back up after purchasing one or more of the providers delivering content on the network. They have a very bad track record so far.
I seriously have no clue .. what are you talking about specifically? Nothing like this has EVER been done by a company of this scale and success.
Open access networks have been done by companies who, relative to local influence, have been in better positions than Google to make it work, and many of them have failed pretty spectacularly for the reasons outlined above.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

No one is in a better position to make it work than google. Local influence? I got your local influence swingin right here. Name one company that has tried this with more technological, capital, and monetary influence.
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mikkel
Member
+383|6887

Kmarion wrote:

No one is in a better position to make it work than google.
Many are in better positions than Google to undertake these projects. They're typically carried out by local and national utilities with monopolies on critical infrastructure, right of way in the ground, and deployment and development patterns that harmonise. It's easy to throw in a fiber run alongside the power lines or water mains you're digging in.

Kmarion wrote:

Name one company that has tried this with more technological, capital, and monetary influence.
Technological, capital and monetary influences won't outright eliminate barriers. Google can swing a pretty hefty bag, but they'll be swinging it at some pretty serious opposition.

Last edited by mikkel (2010-03-24 14:14:51)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

No one is in a better position to make it work than google.
Many are in better positions than Google to undertake these projects. They're typically carried out by local and national utilities with monopolies on critical infrastructure, right of way in the ground, and deployment and development patterns that harmonise. It's easy to throw in a fiber run alongside the power lines or water mains you're digging in.
This is the reason Google has very specific requirements for the communities they are considering. They are trying to expose the bs fcc regualtions and the copper standards that are in place. Google isn't doing this to make money. Their business model is simply "use more internet". They would be quite happy if (other) ISP's provided excellent service.

mikke wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Name one company that has tried this with more technological, capital, and monetary influence.
Technological, capital and monetary influences won't outright eliminate barriers. Google can swing a pretty hefty bag, but they'll be swinging it at some pretty serious opposition.
Opposition from other providers maybe. People want this and they are vocalizing it to their political leaders. There is a massive courting going on right now for google. If politicians oppose it you better believe google will let the world know. It would be the end of local political careers if they stand in the way. THAT is influence.
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mikkel
Member
+383|6887

Kmarion wrote:

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

No one is in a better position to make it work than google.
Many are in better positions than Google to undertake these projects. They're typically carried out by local and national utilities with monopolies on critical infrastructure, right of way in the ground, and deployment and development patterns that harmonise. It's easy to throw in a fiber run alongside the power lines or water mains you're digging in.
This is the reason Google has very specific requirements for the communities they are considering. They are trying to expose the bs fcc regualtions and the copper standards that are in place. Google isn't doing this to make money. Their business model is simply "use more internet". They would be quite happy if (other) ISP's provided excellent service.
This exchange is based in a notion you presented contending that Google are doing this to prove that the model works. The model does not work if it cannot turn a profit.

Kmarion wrote:

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Name one company that has tried this with more technological, capital, and monetary influence.
Technological, capital and monetary influences won't outright eliminate barriers. Google can swing a pretty hefty bag, but they'll be swinging it at some pretty serious opposition.
Opposition from other providers maybe. People want this and they are vocalizing it to their political leaders. There is a massive courting going on right now for google. If politicians oppose it you better believe google will let the world know. It would be the end of local political careers if they stand in the way. THAT is influence.
I'm neither talking about political, nor competitive opposition. I'm talking talking about all of the issues that they'll have to overcome that have brought down similar projects in the past. They're technological, and they're content rights-based.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

mikkel wrote:

Many are in better positions than Google to undertake these projects. They're typically carried out by local and national utilities with monopolies on critical infrastructure, right of way in the ground, and deployment and development patterns that harmonise. It's easy to throw in a fiber run alongside the power lines or water mains you're digging in.
This is the reason Google has very specific requirements for the communities they are considering. They are trying to expose the bs fcc regualtions and the copper standards that are in place. Google isn't doing this to make money. Their business model is simply "use more internet". They would be quite happy if (other) ISP's provided excellent service.
This exchange is based in a notion you presented contending that Google are doing this to prove that the model works. The model does not work if it cannot turn a profit.
There is so much unexplored area that it is impossible to know this. Give me the specific reasons and examples that led you to this conclusion.

mik wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

mikkel wrote:

Technological, capital and monetary influences won't outright eliminate barriers. Google can swing a pretty hefty bag, but they'll be swinging it at some pretty serious opposition.
Opposition from other providers maybe. People want this and they are vocalizing it to their political leaders. There is a massive courting going on right now for google. If politicians oppose it you better believe google will let the world know. It would be the end of local political careers if they stand in the way. THAT is influence.
I'm neither talking about political, nor competitive opposition. I'm talking talking about all of the issues that they'll have to overcome that have brought down similar projects in the past. They're technological, and they're content rights-based.
Again, lets talk about specific examples. The point was google has the technical capacity/ability (as well as other advantages) that most don't.
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