Retiring Senator advocates electoral “shock” to broken system

2010-02-16 16:22:33

#26

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5356|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:
wow. I just finished going over this in my midterm for Globalization class. If my brain wasnt so racked Id contribute more.

I now realize that terrorism isnt a byproduct of wealth disparity or the lack of access to a decent education. Terrorism is rooted with culutural identity and globalization. Introducing free markets to newly democratized nations creates ethnic tensions between the ethnic majority and the market dominant minority.

Free markets first, democracy later.

Although the problem with spreading the idea of free markets and democracy to nations of the periphary is that we require them to implement laissez faire capitalism when the nations of the west dont even follow that model.

Yes. The 9/11 attack was more about Coke, McDonalds and MTV subverting conservative Muslim culture than anything else. You didn't know that?

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-16 16:23:09

#27

steelie34: pub hero!; +603|6379|the land of bourbon

without trying to get too wrapped up in the motives and politics, his words about it being dysfunctional aren't an overstatement at all. it is big business bending the govt to their whims. now, does that mean democracy is failing? no... its our politicians who are allowing this to happen. they need to stop worrying about lining their pockets and start caring about the people they are supposed to represent. i can't participate in such a shitstorm. non stop arguing about issues that are here and gone in an instant. it just feels like such a waste of time and resources, without actually accomplishing anything lasting.

https://bf3s.com/sigs/36e1d9e36ae924048a933db90fb05bb247fe315e.png

2010-02-16 16:23:38

#28

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5356|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:
Ancient Greek democracy wasnt even true democracy. Citizens were counted but non citizens and slaves (majority) had no voice. Also, you could make the argument that direct democracy is what ruined Athens.

It's what's been ruining California for 40 years

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-16 16:26:14

#29

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6495

JohnG@lt wrote:
eleven bravo wrote:
Ancient Greek democracy wasnt even true democracy. Citizens were counted but non citizens and slaves (majority) had no voice. Also, you could make the argument that direct democracy is what ruined Athens.
It's what's been ruining California for 40 years

i remember Prop 13. seems to me when California went down like a turd in the crapper.

2010-02-16 16:29:06

#30

11 Bravo: Banned; +965|5235|Cleveland, Ohio

eleven bravo wrote:
wow. I just finished going over this in my midterm for Globalization class. If my brain wasnt so racked Id contribute more.

I now realize that terrorism isnt a byproduct of wealth disparity or the lack of access to a decent education. Terrorism is rooted with culutural identity and globalization. Introducing free markets to newly democratized nations creates ethnic tensions between the ethnic majority and the market dominant minority.

Free markets first, democracy later.

Although the problem with spreading the idea of free markets and democracy to nations of the periphary is that we require them to implement laissez faire capitalism when the nations of the west dont even follow that model.

bin laden was a rich mofo (daddies money). its also small penis complex (as in bin ladens case). he never gave a rats fuck about the US in the ME until 1990 when the saudis picked the US over him to defend their border.

2010-02-16 16:29:56

#31

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5257|foggy bottom

JohnG@lt wrote:
eleven bravo wrote:
wow. I just finished going over this in my midterm for Globalization class. If my brain wasnt so racked Id contribute more.

I now realize that terrorism isnt a byproduct of wealth disparity or the lack of access to a decent education. Terrorism is rooted with culutural identity and globalization. Introducing free markets to newly democratized nations creates ethnic tensions between the ethnic majority and the market dominant minority.

Free markets first, democracy later.

Although the problem with spreading the idea of free markets and democracy to nations of the periphary is that we require them to implement laissez faire capitalism when the nations of the west dont even follow that model.
Yes. The 9/11 attack was more about Coke, McDonalds and MTV subverting conservative Muslim culture than anything else. You didn't know that?

more about members of certain cultures addressing all their ills of their life towards the world's market dominant minority, the United States. College students arent poor and uneducated. Misplaced rage towards the economic and cultural dominance of the United States is what motivates the university student/suicide bomber.

Tu Stultus Es

2010-02-16 16:31:25

#32

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5257|foggy bottom

11 Bravo wrote:
eleven bravo wrote:
wow. I just finished going over this in my midterm for Globalization class. If my brain wasnt so racked Id contribute more.

I now realize that terrorism isnt a byproduct of wealth disparity or the lack of access to a decent education. Terrorism is rooted with culutural identity and globalization. Introducing free markets to newly democratized nations creates ethnic tensions between the ethnic majority and the market dominant minority.

Free markets first, democracy later.

Although the problem with spreading the idea of free markets and democracy to nations of the periphary is that we require them to implement laissez faire capitalism when the nations of the west dont even follow that model.
bin laden was a rich mofo (daddies money). its also small penis complex (as in bin ladens case). he never gave a rats fuck about the US in the ME until 1990 when the saudis picked the US over him to defend their border.

exactly. Poverty has been around forever. So have the uneducated masses. Its people that see themselves being marginalized by the dominating influence of globalization.

Tu Stultus Es

2010-02-16 16:34:33

#33

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5257|foggy bottom

JohnG@lt wrote:
eleven bravo wrote:
Ancient Greek democracy wasnt even true democracy. Citizens were counted but non citizens and slaves (majority) had no voice. Also, you could make the argument that direct democracy is what ruined Athens.
It's what's been ruining California for 40 years

you can also make that argument true. But prop 13 really effects the ability to collect revenue through property taxes. If a budget is approved by the a 2/3's majority in the state assembly, taxes can be increased on other things.

Not to mention counties have their own tax code, hence the reason LA county property taxes are paid twice a year as a opposed to once in other parts of California.

Tu Stultus Es

2010-02-16 16:36:02

#34

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5356|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:
11 Bravo wrote:
eleven bravo wrote:
wow. I just finished going over this in my midterm for Globalization class. If my brain wasnt so racked Id contribute more.

I now realize that terrorism isnt a byproduct of wealth disparity or the lack of access to a decent education. Terrorism is rooted with culutural identity and globalization. Introducing free markets to newly democratized nations creates ethnic tensions between the ethnic majority and the market dominant minority.

Free markets first, democracy later.

Although the problem with spreading the idea of free markets and democracy to nations of the periphary is that we require them to implement laissez faire capitalism when the nations of the west dont even follow that model.
bin laden was a rich mofo (daddies money). its also small penis complex (as in bin ladens case). he never gave a rats fuck about the US in the ME until 1990 when the saudis picked the US over him to defend their border.
exactly. Poverty has been around forever. So have the uneducated masses. Its people that see themselves being marginalized by the dominating influence of globalization.

The Imams were the big fish in the little pond and they liked the power that gave them. The spread of new cultures that forced them into the Big Pond is what caused their anger. It was reflexive. They'll have to get over it eventually.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-16 16:38:22

#35

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5356|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
eleven bravo wrote:
Ancient Greek democracy wasnt even true democracy. Citizens were counted but non citizens and slaves (majority) had no voice. Also, you could make the argument that direct democracy is what ruined Athens.
It's what's been ruining California for 40 years
you can also make that argument true. But prop 13 really effects the ability to collect revenue through property taxes. If a budget is approved by the a 2/3's majority in the state assembly, taxes can be increased on other things.

Not to mention counties have their own tax code, hence the reason LA county property taxes are paid twice a year as a opposed to once in other parts of California.

Right but it's impossible to get a 2/3 majority because they've gerrymandered the state in such a way that you basically only have wing nuts from both extremes representing you in your state assembly. You guys need a new constitutional convention and you need to scrap the direct democracy garbage.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-16 16:49:59

#36

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5257|foggy bottom

yup
state senate district

https://www.sen.ca.gov/ftp/SEN/senplan/SENMAPS/MAP21_300.JPG

my assembly district

https://www.assembly.ca.gov/committee/c7/asmfinal/ASMMAPS/MAP44_150.JPG

a portion of my town lies here, represented by a republican

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/United_States_House_of_Representatives%2C_California_District_26.png

but I live here, rep'ed by a democrat

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/42/CA-29th.gif

Last edited by eleven bravo (2010-02-16 16:51:33)

Tu Stultus Es

2010-02-16 17:03:15

#37

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6673|Canberra, AUS

JohnG@lt wrote:
eleven bravo wrote:
11 Bravo wrote:

bin laden was a rich mofo (daddies money). its also small penis complex (as in bin ladens case). he never gave a rats fuck about the US in the ME until 1990 when the saudis picked the US over him to defend their border.
exactly. Poverty has been around forever. So have the uneducated masses. Its people that see themselves being marginalized by the dominating influence of globalization.
The Imams were the big fish in the little pond and they liked the power that gave them. The spread of new cultures that forced them into the Big Pond is what caused their anger. It was reflexive. They'll have to get over it eventually.

a fairly reasonable conclusion imo

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2010-02-16 17:07:41

#38

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5356|London, England

Spark wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
eleven bravo wrote:
exactly. Poverty has been around forever. So have the uneducated masses. Its people that see themselves being marginalized by the dominating influence of globalization.
The Imams were the big fish in the little pond and they liked the power that gave them. The spread of new cultures that forced them into the Big Pond is what caused their anger. It was reflexive. They'll have to get over it eventually.
a fairly reasonable conclusion imo

It was never really about religion no matter how much the extreme right wing wants to portray it. Most get into it because they truly believe and want to help people, but a significant minority of religious leaders throughout history have used their position to control the minds of their followers. When that control is threatened, they lash out. It's why you end up with jihadists and inquisitors.

Religion is just a tool used by power seekers like OBL.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-02-16 17:25:51)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-16 17:24:18

#39

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6403|North Carolina

DBBrinson1 wrote:
Partisianship? Please. Even with a super majority the d's couldn't rahm things through. Why the hell should the r's roll over caving to socialist agendas? Washington has been like that and will continue to be like that. Partisanship? Who locked the R's out of meetings on healthcare? Who has reject job bills and alternate budgets and healthcare proposals? Dude was facing a tough political fight. He sees the writing on the wall. Fall on your sword for the O and take a pot shot on the way out. Sad.

Bayh never referenced a party in his speech, so it's quite likely he meant both parties when he made his complaints.

Bayh took heat from not only Republicans but the left wing of his party as well, because he's generally a pretty moderate guy.

However, since you decided to make this a party thing, let's take a look at some partisanship in cloture votes....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Cloture_Voting%2C_U.S._Senate%2C_1947_to_2008.jpg

2010-02-16 17:27:34

#40

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5257|foggy bottom

Bayh is more conservative than moderate

Tu Stultus Es

2010-02-16 17:29:45

#41

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6527|Global Command

I have been to tea parties.

I smoke pot, hate Palin and think abortion should be legal.

The Tea Party movement is made up mostly of the middle class who are being served an ever shrinking part of the pie. We know the national treasure is being plundered, we know most politicians are crooks or do-nothings. We will have change.

The very name is meant to remind the politicians that we have had taxation without representation before. It is a mainstream revolutionary movement that is peacefull, organized and determined. There are millions of us. Millions of us.

2010-02-16 17:30:12

#42

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6403|North Carolina

eleven bravo wrote:
Bayh is more conservative than moderate

On The Issues calls him a populist leaning liberal.

https://www.ontheissues.org/images/s060_020.gif

http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Evan_Bayh.htm

2010-02-16 17:32:22

#43

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6403|North Carolina

ATG wrote:
I have been to tea parties.

I smoke pot, hate Palin and think abortion should be legal.

The Tea Party movement is made up mostly of the middle class who are being served an ever shrinking part of the pie. We know the national treasure is being plundered, we know most politicians are crooks or do-nothings. We will have change.

The very name is meant to remind the politicians that we have had taxation without representation before. It is a mainstream revolutionary movement that is peacefull, organized and determined. There are millions of us. Millions of us.

Where were they when Bush was in office?

2010-02-16 17:32:35

#44

Canin: Conservative Roman Catholic; +280|6473|Foothills of S. Carolina

ATG wrote:
I have been to tea parties.

I smoke pot, hate Palin and think abortion should be legal.

The Tea Party movement is made up mostly of the middle class who are being served an ever shrinking part of the pie. We know the national treasure is being plundered, we know most politicians are crooks or do-nothings. We will have change.

The very name is meant to remind the politicians that we have had taxation without representation before. It is a mainstream revolutionary movement that is peacefull, organized and determined. There are millions of us. Millions of us.

Kinda like a velvet revolution....

2010-02-16 17:36:41

#45

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6527|Global Command

When Bush was in office it went from mad to rage. Bush betrayed conservatives.

2010-02-16 17:37:39

#46

Canin: Conservative Roman Catholic; +280|6473|Foothills of S. Carolina

Bush and most the other republicans caused me to be independent, F the GOP

2010-02-16 17:38:14

#47

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5356|London, England

Turquoise wrote:
Where were they when Bush was in office?

Pretty much the question I've been asking myself. With his unfunded Medicare Part D, he's contributed far more to the deficit long term than anything Obama has passed. Obama's agenda is a nightmare in itself but he hasn't passed anything.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-02-16 17:39:23

#48

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6495

Canin wrote:
Bush and most the other republicans caused me to be independent, F the GOP

you are not alone. the independents are becoming the single biggest voting bloc, thanks to the left and the right.

2010-02-16 17:41:06

#49

eleven bravo: Member; +1,399|5257|foggy bottom

Ive been independent since 2006. the 6 years before that I was a registered republican. I feel that Im liberal leaning but I fucking hate labels. the anti war movement really soured me from claiming a party.

Tu Stultus Es

2010-02-16 17:41:45

#50

Canin: Conservative Roman Catholic; +280|6473|Foothills of S. Carolina

Heh, I actually always voted for a persons stands and records, never a party. I get so pissed off at primary time because everyone whines about how the selected candidate isnt one of their choosing, but they didn't bother to vote in the primary to begin with.

BF2S Forums Retiring Senator advocates electoral “shock” to broken system

eleven bravo wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Spark wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

ATG wrote:

ATG wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Canin wrote:

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