ruisleipa
Member
+149|6193|teh FIN-land
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ja … agellation



Pope John Paul II self-flagellated regularly to imitate Christ's ­suffering and signed a secret document saying he would resign instead of ruling for life if he became incurably ill, a book claims. The book – Why He Is a Saint: the Real John Paul II – has been written by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the Vatican official in charge of the process that could lead to sainthood for the late pontiff. The pope, who died in 2005, was shot and nearly killed in 1981, had several operations including one for cancer, and had Parkinson's disease for more than a decade before his death.

He moved closer to sainthood last month when the pope, Benedict XVI, approved a decree recognising that his papal predecessor had lived the Christian faith heroically. Citing individuals in the late pope's entourage while he was a bishop in Poland and after he was elected pontiff in 1978, the book says that John Paul II inflicted pain on himself to feel closer to God. "In his closet, among his vestments, there was hung on a clothes hanger a particular kind of belt which he used as a whip," Oder writes.

When he was a bishop, he often slept on the bare floor so he could practise self-denial and asceticism, Oder writes. Many saints of the Church, including St Francis of Assisi, St Catherine of Siena and St Ignatius of Loyola, practised flagellation and asceticism as part of their spiritual life.

"It is clear the aspect of penitence was present in the life of John Paul II," Oder told a news conference today. "It should be seen as part of his profound relationship with the Lord." The book confirms that as his health failed, John Paul II prepared a document stating he would step down instead of ruling for life if he became incurably ill or impaired from carrying out his duties. The pontiff signed the document in 1989, eight years after the shooting. Its existence had been the subject of rumours but it is published in full in the book.

In the end, the pope stayed on until his death, saying it was for the good of the church. Had he stepped down, he would have been the first Catholic pontiff to do so willingly since 1294 when Celestine V decided he was not up to the job.The next step towards sainthood for John Paul II will be the recognition of a miracle attributed to him: it involves a French nun who was cured of Parkinson's disease after praying to him.

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Personally I think this is crazy. For some, rational people, flaggelating yourself would either be a sign of sexual perversion or mental illness. In the Catholic Church it means you're a saint! Absolutely crazy. Good example of the madness of organised religion, though.
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5208|Cleveland, Ohio
religion is such a shit.  when i said we can never have world peace unless all religion was gone, people say i am crazy.  well we have had religion this long.....goog going yes?
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6620

It means he was one kinky bastard.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6382|'Murka

The flagellation has nothing to do with his proposed sainthood.

It's no more odd than any other religious ritual performed by any other devout member of any other religion would seem to any other person who is not as devout or not of that religion.

Not my thing, but I really couldn't care less.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6193|teh FIN-land

FEOS wrote:

The flagellation has nothing to do with his proposed sainthood.

It's no more odd than any other religious ritual performed by any other devout member of any other religion would seem to any other person who is not as devout or not of that religion.

Not my thing, but I really couldn't care less.
"It is clear the aspect of penitence was present in the life of John Paul II," Oder told a news conference today. "It should be seen as part of his profound relationship with the Lord."
The book in reference is "Why a Saint?" was written by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, who is the Vatican official in charge of the process that is implemented to have someone named a saint.
As I understand it it IS part of the argument for him being sanctified. No more odd than ANY other ritual? I think most people would consider self-flaggellation somewhere at the more extreme end, but whatever.

Oh, but don't forget that he also has to have 'performed a miracle' to be a saint. It'd be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6655|United States of America
Don't forget to spin it so he looks like a loon... Oh wait, you already did. I can't even to begin to expect that you would understand why someone would willingly self-flagellate, though.
mikkel
Member
+383|6572

DesertFox- wrote:

Don't forget to spin it so he looks like a loon... Oh wait, you already did. I can't even to begin to expect that you would understand why someone would willingly self-flagellate, though.
It hasn't been spun to make him look like anything in this thread. On the contrary, the Catholic spin has been ignored, and he has been viewed in the same light that anyone else would have been.
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6552|SE London

DesertFox- wrote:

Don't forget to spin it so he looks like a loon...
Do you need any spin to make someone self-flagellating look like a loon?
13rin
Member
+977|6450
Pope into S&M?  meh.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5556

Used to be common with devouts as was the barbed wire around the leg thing.
blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6616
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Personally I think this is crazy. For some, rational people, flaggelating yourself would either be a sign of sexual perversion or mental illness. In the Catholic Church it means you're a saint! Absolutely crazy. Good example of the madness of organised religion, though.(the guy who made a thread his quote)
well I agree with u that it is crazy whipping urself

Last edited by blademaster (2010-01-27 06:39:24)

Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6513|Texas - Bigger than France
I think he did it as penance, not because he was into s&m or mentally ill. 

Weird for sure though
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6471|so randum
i never knew the catholic church was full of sexual deviants!

https://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/1011/1011_no_party.jpg
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5329|London, England

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-01-27 06:58:21)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6513|Texas - Bigger than France
Ahh, come on Galt, get it right



Braddock
Agitator
+916|6261|Éire
I suppose its better that he diverted his inner torments and desires into self-harm than into buggering young kids.

...JP was a good goalkeeper in his day though!
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6193|teh FIN-land

FatherTed wrote:

i never knew the catholic church was full of sexual deviants!

http://images.southparkstudios.com/medi … _party.jpg
lold
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+794|6655|United States of America
In D&ST, and still can't even expect people to understand why someone would do this. By all means jump on the hip, old-as-shit bandwagon of bash the Catholic Church and paint them as pervs and pedos...
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5556

Macbeth wrote:

Used to be common with devouts as was the barbed wire around the leg thing.
Right mac! Back in the old times it was common practice for people to "punish themselves" for their sins or to feel and be reminded of the pain of Jesus' death. Now it is only practiced by the most devout Christians. It isn't a sign of mental illness nor sexual deviancy. Even if it was a sexual thing, it still would be a perfectly reasonable and very common sexual act.
https://www.searchviews.com/wp-content/themes/clean-copy-full-3-column-1/images/the_more_you_know2.jpg
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6193|teh FIN-land

Macbeth wrote:

[
Right mac! Back in the old times it was common practice for people to "punish themselves" for their sins or to feel and be reminded of the pain of Jesus' death. Now it is only practiced by the most devout Christians. It isn't a sign of mental illness nor sexual deviancy.
Oh please, it's a totally illogical and irrational practice for which the pope-that-was is sanctified, literally and figuratively. If most people are found hurting themselves they're given psuchological counselling. But because it's 'religious' it's seen as a good thing? Completely ridiculous.
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5230|foggy bottom
muslims do it too
Tu Stultus Es
Beduin
Compensation of Reactive Power in the grid
+510|5721|شمال

eleven bravo wrote:

muslims do it too
the religion of peace?
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6193|teh FIN-land

eleven bravo wrote:

muslims do it too
Don't care.

All muslims don't do it, just like all Catholics don't either. But it's stupid imo when a pope is sanctified for this. Diminishes any moral authority the church might otherwise have held. Why do you need to bring muslims into it?
JahManRed
wank
+646|6599|IRELAND

I get the GF to whip me all the time, whats the problem?
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5556

ruisleipa wrote:

. But it's stupid imo when a pope is sanctified for this. Diminishes any moral authority the church might otherwise have held.
It used to be a common practice that many people performed. Along the way Christians gave up little bits here and there of their religion.
But this Pope instead performed, in secret not like he was proud of it, the whipping practice on himself. Mind you most people don't perform this practice because of the pain and scarring involved but this Pope was such a believer he performed it.

Now considering people often like to shoot off the insult that modern Christians or the Church is hypocritical, wouldn't a Pope that performed a religious act which many people are too afraid or too weak to perform seem seem like a non hypocritical true genuine believer?

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