You asume lowing that blasphemy wasn't an issue until 2008, and like IG-Calibre pointed out it started before the Danish cartoons ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
In 70 years it was challenged once and even then it was dismissed, no one gave a real shit. Now however it is of major concern, but this has nothing to do with PC or the era in which we live. right.Varegg wrote:
You asume lowing that blasphemy wasn't an issue until 2008, and like IG-Calibre pointed out it started before the Danish cartoons ...
wait, so after 13 pages none of you have figured out that you can't change anyone's opinion?
EE (hats
There is an open conflict in these matters these days I agree but this is not one of them apparantly seeing as it started before the Danish cartoon incidents ...lowing wrote:
In 70 years it was challenged once and even then it was dismissed, no one gave a real shit. Now however it is of major concern, but this has nothing to do with PC or the era in which we live. right.Varegg wrote:
You asume lowing that blasphemy wasn't an issue until 2008, and like IG-Calibre pointed out it started before the Danish cartoons ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Islamic strife and European appeasement are both older than the Danish cartoons.Varegg wrote:
There is an open conflict in these matters these days I agree but this is not one of them apparantly seeing as it started before the Danish cartoon incidents ...lowing wrote:
In 70 years it was challenged once and even then it was dismissed, no one gave a real shit. Now however it is of major concern, but this has nothing to do with PC or the era in which we live. right.Varegg wrote:
You asume lowing that blasphemy wasn't an issue until 2008, and like IG-Calibre pointed out it started before the Danish cartoons ...
Before and after the Danish cartoons is actually quite different ...lowing wrote:
Islamic strife and European appeasement are both older than the Danish cartoons.Varegg wrote:
There is an open conflict in these matters these days I agree but this is not one of them apparantly seeing as it started before the Danish cartoon incidents ...lowing wrote:
In 70 years it was challenged once and even then it was dismissed, no one gave a real shit. Now however it is of major concern, but this has nothing to do with PC or the era in which we live. right.
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
lowing for gods sake, a large number of older Irish are as extreme in their religious views as Muslims, hence load of trouble between catholics and protestants, ofc they dont like blasphemy.
More Bluster from Rabid Lowing with not one jot of evidence to support his baseless opinion kids 13 pages in, that's whats known as being irrational, but hey! it's fun triggering his Pavlovian responses with words that he clearly doesn't understand the context of, poke him and watch him go frothing at the mouth.. what a fucking imbecile..lowing wrote:
No what the point is, is that Ireland has decided to make all of this fuss over a non-issue. For 70 years no one gave a shit about blasphemy until now, and what are you using as the catalyst a 15 year old court case that no one cared about then or now. but here it is 2008-2010 incitement outrage and offence is the major problem of the day. Right along with all the other countries that see it as a major problem. If this has nothing to do with PC then your timing is amazing.
It's great that we have lowing here to tell us what's going on on a sociopolitical level in Ireland. My own personal experience of reality here is a little too subjective to be deemed trustworthy.
You're 100% right lowing, it's all about the Muslims... I can't believe I never saw it before.
You're 100% right lowing, it's all about the Muslims... I can't believe I never saw it before.
We still have to sit through the fucking Angelus at 6pm every evening on the State broadcaster networks. We still have nightly shows such as "A Prayer At Bedtime" and live coverage of Mass on Sunday mornings! Lowing has no concept of how dyed-in-the-wool this State still is when it comes to Catholicism. His outrage is horribly misplaced given that our State has not only allowed several Catholic priests to escape punishment in light of child abuse allegations, but has also agreed to foot most of the bill in terms of compensation claims rather than sending a big fuck-off invoice to the Vatican. The Catholic church still has its tentacles (and testicles too probably) rooted deep in the primary school system. But no... of course it's the non-existent Muslim community that have engineered this recent legal adjustment.Vilham wrote:
lowing for gods sake, a large number of older Irish are as extreme in their religious views as Muslims, hence load of trouble between catholics and protestants, ofc they dont like blasphemy.
In the famous words of Walter Sobchak, "lowing, you're out of your element"!
Again no one here is frothing at the mouth except you. I have not once lost my temper, or threw a fit, YOU unfortuantely can not claim the same.IG-Calibre wrote:
More Bluster from Rabid Lowing with not one jot of evidence to support his baseless opinion kids 13 pages in, that's whats known as being irrational, but hey! it's fun triggering his Pavlovian responses with words that he clearly doesn't understand the context of, poke him and watch him go frothing at the mouth.. what a fucking imbecile..lowing wrote:
No what the point is, is that Ireland has decided to make all of this fuss over a non-issue. For 70 years no one gave a shit about blasphemy until now, and what are you using as the catalyst a 15 year old court case that no one cared about then or now. but here it is 2008-2010 incitement outrage and offence is the major problem of the day. Right along with all the other countries that see it as a major problem. If this has nothing to do with PC then your timing is amazing.
So be mindful of your rhetoric about who is frothing, slabbering and irrational
My opinon is supported by commentary in your news papers, and in interviews on your news channels. Everything I discussed was mentioned in both.
Iti s not about the Muslims, it is about the loss of free speech and press, and how no one is happier to see you dispense of both, greater than Islam. Falling in line with the rest of the Islamic world to curtail basic western society freedoms is a win for Islam and a loss for western society. Of this there is no denying ( unless you are European) Congratulations! You must be so proud.Braddock wrote:
It's great that we have lowing here to tell us what's going on on a sociopolitical level in Ireland. My own personal experience of reality here is a little too subjective to be deemed trustworthy.
You're 100% right lowing, it's all about the Muslims... I can't believe I never saw it before.
Last edited by lowing (2010-01-15 09:15:38)
haha, still waiting on you providing one supporting fact, just one Lowing to support your false claims - above is just more of your empty worthless opinions, you keep posting them, i'll keep providing the Facts which consistently prove you wrong, even in the program any claim even remotely like yours was dismissed instantly, so all the last 13 pages have shown is that all you can do is talk out yer asshole & spew nonsense.. come on put up another shit post so I can reply and point at you and laugh..lowing wrote:
Again no one here is frothing at the mouth except you. I have not once lost my temper, or threw a fit, YOU unfortuantely can not claim the same.IG-Calibre wrote:
More Bluster from Rabid Lowing with not one jot of evidence to support his baseless opinion kids 13 pages in, that's whats known as being irrational, but hey! it's fun triggering his Pavlovian responses with words that he clearly doesn't understand the context of, poke him and watch him go frothing at the mouth.. what a fucking imbecile..lowing wrote:
No what the point is, is that Ireland has decided to make all of this fuss over a non-issue. For 70 years no one gave a shit about blasphemy until now, and what are you using as the catalyst a 15 year old court case that no one cared about then or now. but here it is 2008-2010 incitement outrage and offence is the major problem of the day. Right along with all the other countries that see it as a major problem. If this has nothing to do with PC then your timing is amazing.
So be mindful of your rhetoric about who is frothing, slabbering and irrational
My opinon is supported by commentary in your news papers, and in interviews on your news channels. Everything I discussed was mentioned in both.
I never said this law didn't benefit conservative Muslims, because it obviously does. Your argument for the last 13 pages has been that Islamic pressure and a desire to appease the Infinitesimal Muslim community in Ireland is what motivated this legal amendment, I have argued (and still argue) that that is simply not the case.lowing wrote:
Iti s not about the Muslims, it is about the loss of free speech and press, and how no one is happier to see you dispense of both, greater than Islam. Falling in line with the rest of the Islamic world to curtail basic western society freedoms is a win for Islam and a loss for western society. Of this there is no denying ( unless you are European) Congratulations! You must be so proud.Braddock wrote:
It's great that we have lowing here to tell us what's going on on a sociopolitical level in Ireland. My own personal experience of reality here is a little too subjective to be deemed trustworthy.
You're 100% right lowing, it's all about the Muslims... I can't believe I never saw it before.
Are you changing your stance all of a sudden?
This I agree with.lowing wrote:
Iti s not about the Muslims, it is about the loss of free speech and press, and how no one is happier to see you dispense of both, greater than Islam.Braddock wrote:
It's great that we have lowing here to tell us what's going on on a sociopolitical level in Ireland. My own personal experience of reality here is a little too subjective to be deemed trustworthy.
You're 100% right lowing, it's all about the Muslims... I can't believe I never saw it before.
But it's a pretty far cry from the original appeasement angle....
My stance has always been the same. Like most of Europe, Ireland's actions are those of appeasement and denial.Braddock wrote:
I never said this law didn't benefit conservative Muslims, because it obviously does. Your argument for the last 13 pages has been that Islamic pressure and a desire to appease the Infinitesimal Muslim community in Ireland is what motivated this legal amendment, I have argued (and still argue) that that is simply not the case.lowing wrote:
Iti s not about the Muslims, it is about the loss of free speech and press, and how no one is happier to see you dispense of both, greater than Islam. Falling in line with the rest of the Islamic world to curtail basic western society freedoms is a win for Islam and a loss for western society. Of this there is no denying ( unless you are European) Congratulations! You must be so proud.Braddock wrote:
It's great that we have lowing here to tell us what's going on on a sociopolitical level in Ireland. My own personal experience of reality here is a little too subjective to be deemed trustworthy.
You're 100% right lowing, it's all about the Muslims... I can't believe I never saw it before.
Are you changing your stance all of a sudden?
To deny the results of this legislation is classic head in the sand. You wanna claim it is not appeasement fine, that is what opinion is all about.
However, given the timeliness of this legislation, when it was largely a non-issue, given who benefits from it, given that freedoms are so readily sacrificed, given the fact that this legislation is being modeled by Islamic nations, given the fact that it is being celebrated by all the wrong people. (IE people that support a denial of freedom). It is really hard to draw an opinion about it that suggests, this is all about Catholics. Sorry
Last edited by lowing (2010-01-15 12:58:58)
Well I have posted your newspapers, and your news channels, and used your sources, not much else to do. I can not help your rejection of everything you disagree with. I have an opinion so do the experts in your media. Irelands actions are highly questionable. and questions were raised.IG-Calibre wrote:
haha, still waiting on you providing one supporting fact, just one Lowing to support your false claims - above is just more of your empty worthless opinions, you keep posting them, i'll keep providing the Facts which consistently prove you wrong, even in the program any claim even remotely like yours was dismissed instantly, so all the last 13 pages have shown is that all you can do is talk out yer asshole & spew nonsense.. come on put up another shit post so I can reply and point at you and laugh..lowing wrote:
Again no one here is frothing at the mouth except you. I have not once lost my temper, or threw a fit, YOU unfortuantely can not claim the same.IG-Calibre wrote:
More Bluster from Rabid Lowing with not one jot of evidence to support his baseless opinion kids 13 pages in, that's whats known as being irrational, but hey! it's fun triggering his Pavlovian responses with words that he clearly doesn't understand the context of, poke him and watch him go frothing at the mouth.. what a fucking imbecile..
So be mindful of your rhetoric about who is frothing, slabbering and irrational
My opinon is supported by commentary in your news papers, and in interviews on your news channels. Everything I discussed was mentioned in both.
Where?lowing wrote:
Well I have posted your newspapers, and your news channels, and used your sources, not much else to do. I can not help your rejection of everything you disagree with. I have an opinion so do the experts in your media. Irelands actions are highly questionable. and questions were raised.IG-Calibre wrote:
haha, still waiting on you providing one supporting fact, just one Lowing to support your false claims - above is just more of your empty worthless opinions, you keep posting them, i'll keep providing the Facts which consistently prove you wrong, even in the program any claim even remotely like yours was dismissed instantly, so all the last 13 pages have shown is that all you can do is talk out yer asshole & spew nonsense.. come on put up another shit post so I can reply and point at you and laugh..lowing wrote:
Again no one here is frothing at the mouth except you. I have not once lost my temper, or threw a fit, YOU unfortuantely can not claim the same.
So be mindful of your rhetoric about who is frothing, slabbering and irrational
My opinon is supported by commentary in your news papers, and in interviews on your news channels. Everything I discussed was mentioned in both.
read back not sure which pages they are on. but here ya goBertster7 wrote:
Where?lowing wrote:
Well I have posted your newspapers, and your news channels, and used your sources, not much else to do. I can not help your rejection of everything you disagree with. I have an opinion so do the experts in your media. Irelands actions are highly questionable. and questions were raised.IG-Calibre wrote:
haha, still waiting on you providing one supporting fact, just one Lowing to support your false claims - above is just more of your empty worthless opinions, you keep posting them, i'll keep providing the Facts which consistently prove you wrong, even in the program any claim even remotely like yours was dismissed instantly, so all the last 13 pages have shown is that all you can do is talk out yer asshole & spew nonsense.. come on put up another shit post so I can reply and point at you and laugh..
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/colum … 31139.html
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/colum … 10943.html
http://www.independent.ie/national-news … 26699.html
Last edited by lowing (2010-01-15 12:51:56)
Those articles make the same point I have been making i.e. that these laws could be exploited by extremely conservative Muslims. It still does not back up your claim that the adjustment of this law was motivated by a desire to appease the Muslim minority though. Furthermore, despite the existence of this legal opportunity, Ireland's Muslim population don't appear to have any desire to muzzle us given that they allowed the publishing of several blasphemous phrases regarding Islam to pass without causing any fuss.lowing wrote:
read back not sure which pages they are on. but here ya go
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/colum … 31139.html
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/colum … 10943.html
http://www.independent.ie/national-news … 26699.html
By the way, the second article by Kevin Myers appears to deal with the bad weather we've been having lately, did I miss the Islamic reference? ...I spent Wednesday evening in the company of Mr. Myers as it happens, very smart man.
I refer you to the post I made to you above.Braddock wrote:
Those articles make the same point I have been making i.e. that these laws could be exploited by extremely conservative Muslims. It still does not back up your claim that the adjustment of this law was motivated by a desire to appease the Muslim minority though. Furthermore, despite the existence of this legal opportunity, Ireland's Muslim population don't appear to have any desire to muzzle us given that they allowed the publishing of several blasphemous phrases regarding Islam to pass without causing any fuss.lowing wrote:
read back not sure which pages they are on. but here ya go
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/colum … 31139.html
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/colum … 10943.html
http://www.independent.ie/national-news … 26699.html
By the way, the second article by Kevin Myers appears to deal with the bad weather we've been having lately, did I miss the Islamic reference? ...I spent Wednesday evening in the company of Mr. Myers as it happens, very smart man.
My mistake I did not want that article there I mis-clicked. I was going for another and didn't check after I posted.
By the way, a title of "Blasphemy law only panders to the deranged instincts of an intolerant immigrant minority" suggests a little more than "could"
Last edited by lowing (2010-01-15 15:37:11)
Who in this country is celebrating it lowing? In fact, who in this country is even exploiting it?lowing wrote:
My stance has always been the same. Like most of Europe, Ireland's actions are those of appeasement and denial.Braddock wrote:
I never said this law didn't benefit conservative Muslims, because it obviously does. Your argument for the last 13 pages has been that Islamic pressure and a desire to appease the Infinitesimal Muslim community in Ireland is what motivated this legal amendment, I have argued (and still argue) that that is simply not the case.lowing wrote:
Iti s not about the Muslims, it is about the loss of free speech and press, and how no one is happier to see you dispense of both, greater than Islam. Falling in line with the rest of the Islamic world to curtail basic western society freedoms is a win for Islam and a loss for western society. Of this there is no denying ( unless you are European) Congratulations! You must be so proud.
Are you changing your stance all of a sudden?
To deny the results of this legislation is classic head in the sand. You wanna claim it is not appeasement fine, that is what opinion is all about.
However, given the timeliness of this legislation, when it was largely a non-issue, given who benefits from it, given that freedoms are so readily sacrificed, given the fact that this legislation is being modeled by Islamic nations, given the fact that it is being celebrated by all the wrong people. (IE people that support a denial of freedom). It is really hard to draw an opinion about it that suggests, this is all about Catholics. Sorry
The law has come into effect as of the new year and not only has there been no celebrations of it, but there has been blasphemous comments published against Islam and not a single soul protested or challenged them. Now you tell me who's head is in the sand lowing... Muslims aren't even using this law, a law that could quite easily be exploited to suit their supposed ultra-conservative agendas.
Braddock take my post as a whole as to understand why this law is viewed the way it is. The big picture. If you want to replace "celebrate" with "support", fine.Braddock wrote:
Who in this country is celebrating it lowing? In fact, who in this country is even exploiting it?lowing wrote:
My stance has always been the same. Like most of Europe, Ireland's actions are those of appeasement and denial.Braddock wrote:
I never said this law didn't benefit conservative Muslims, because it obviously does. Your argument for the last 13 pages has been that Islamic pressure and a desire to appease the Infinitesimal Muslim community in Ireland is what motivated this legal amendment, I have argued (and still argue) that that is simply not the case.
Are you changing your stance all of a sudden?
To deny the results of this legislation is classic head in the sand. You wanna claim it is not appeasement fine, that is what opinion is all about.
However, given the timeliness of this legislation, when it was largely a non-issue, given who benefits from it, given that freedoms are so readily sacrificed, given the fact that this legislation is being modeled by Islamic nations, given the fact that it is being celebrated by all the wrong people. (IE people that support a denial of freedom). It is really hard to draw an opinion about it that suggests, this is all about Catholics. Sorry
The law has come into effect as of the new year and not only has there been no celebrations of it, but there has been blasphemous comments published against Islam and not a single soul protested or challenged them. Now you tell me who's head is in the sand lowing... Muslims aren't even using this law, a law that could quite easily be exploited to suit their supposed ultra-conservative agendas.
But Islam is looking to copy it, not oppose it.
I take onboard all of your comments in this thread, and even agree with you that this law presents a great opportunity for conservative Islam, but my point is instead of viewing Islam as an evil faceless entity look at it in terms of the Muslims who actually live in this country and practice the religion. The Muslim population get along well in Irish society and have already been presented with an opportunity to exploit this new law... but they didn't. This flies in the face of the conspiracy theories you've outlined in this thread.lowing wrote:
Braddock take my post as a whole as to understand why this law is viewed the way it is. The big picture. If you want to replace "celebrate" with "support", fine.Braddock wrote:
Who in this country is celebrating it lowing? In fact, who in this country is even exploiting it?lowing wrote:
My stance has always been the same. Like most of Europe, Ireland's actions are those of appeasement and denial.
To deny the results of this legislation is classic head in the sand. You wanna claim it is not appeasement fine, that is what opinion is all about.
However, given the timeliness of this legislation, when it was largely a non-issue, given who benefits from it, given that freedoms are so readily sacrificed, given the fact that this legislation is being modeled by Islamic nations, given the fact that it is being celebrated by all the wrong people. (IE people that support a denial of freedom). It is really hard to draw an opinion about it that suggests, this is all about Catholics. Sorry
The law has come into effect as of the new year and not only has there been no celebrations of it, but there has been blasphemous comments published against Islam and not a single soul protested or challenged them. Now you tell me who's head is in the sand lowing... Muslims aren't even using this law, a law that could quite easily be exploited to suit their supposed ultra-conservative agendas.
But Islam is looking to copy it, not oppose it.
I personally believe that we will ultimately have a referendum to get rid of the law altogether and that if there ever were a cartoon controversy it would merely fast-track this process. It would be a fucking landslide, given that Muslims constitute less than 1% of the population. If, on the off chance, the referendum were to rule in favour of keeping the law it would actually be thanks to right-wing Christians (but I'm sure you'd find a way of claiming it was an Islamic conspiracy!).
Last edited by Braddock (2010-01-15 16:14:30)
To try and push this law so soon would be kind of self defeating as it would surely blow up in their faces. When the dust settles here, time will tell.Braddock wrote:
I take onboard all of your comments in this thread, and even with youagree that this law presents a great opportunity for conservative Islam, but my point is instead of viewing Islam as an evil faceless entity look at it in terms of the Muslims who actually live in this country and practice the religion. The Muslim population get along well in Irish society and have already been presented with an opportunity to exploit this new law... but they didn't. This flies in the face of the conspiracy theories you've outlined in this thread.lowing wrote:
Braddock take my post as a whole as to understand why this law is viewed the way it is. The big picture. If you want to replace "celebrate" with "support", fine.Braddock wrote:
Who in this country is celebrating it lowing? In fact, who in this country is even exploiting it?
The law has come into effect as of the new year and not only has there been no celebrations of it, but there has been blasphemous comments published against Islam and not a single soul protested or challenged them. Now you tell me who's head is in the sand lowing... Muslims aren't even using this law, a law that could quite easily be exploited to suit their supposed ultra-conservative agendas.
But Islam is looking to copy it, not oppose it.
I personally believe that we will ultimately have a referendum to get rid of the law altogether and that if there ever were a cartoon controversy it would merely fast-track this process. It would be a fucking landslide, given that Muslims constitute less than 1% of the population. If, on the off chance, the referendum were to rule in favour of keeping the law it would actually be thanks to right-wing Christians (but I'm sure you'd find a way of claiming it was an Islamic conspiracy!).