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Dilbert_X
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+1,623|4510|eXtreme to the maX
I'm more concerned that they're running the world to suit Jews, Evangelicals and their millennia-old prophecies.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ … y-friction

Never mind a multi-billion dollar trade deal, what's important is which town Australia has an office in.

Now thats a haircut which could inspire a nation.

https://www.onthisday.com/images/people/hermann-goering-medium.jpg
Epstein didn't kill himself
Larssen
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Your obsession with jews is so wildly strange. Globally jewish people/billionaires hold less than 5% of our total wealth.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,623|4510|eXtreme to the maX
For the last 50 years at least the world has revolved around Israel and their nutty cult with its end-of-times agenda.
We can thank them for umpteen actual shooting wars and the creation of Arab/muslim terrorism.

Australia's current military priority? Enforcing sanctions on Iran so they can't be a potential threat to Israel - which they weren't going to be but Netanyahu needed to get re-elected so now we have warships in the Gulf again....

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-10-29 06:00:03)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1856
jesus i make a lighthearted comment about ridiculous haircuts and you go full 'nazi jew' on me. you need to see someone.

fyi the muslim brotherhood and the first strands of 'radical' or 'militant' islam were against colonial rule and despotic leadership. it was the nazis coming along in the 30s and 40s with their bad pamphlets about the protocols of the elders of zion that convinced a few prominent muslims, the grand mufti of jerusalem among them, that the jews were to blame for all their ills. to say that israel is responsible for islamic terrorism is absolutely moronic.

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-29 06:22:29)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,623|4510|eXtreme to the maX
Yes, it was the Nazis who showed the muslims that terrorism got results, not decades of jewish terrorism prior to the creation of nazism.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1856
militant islam was explicitly fascist. nazism gave it a political economy and made it an organising principle, rather than a set of clerical-theological doctrines.

it was the nazis that gave muslim nationalism its anti-semitism, conceiving of israel as the cause of all their troubles.

you can read this in most popular histories of islamic terrorism.

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-29 07:58:09)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,623|4510|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

it was the nazis that gave muslim nationalism its anti-semitism, conceiving of israel as the cause of all their troubles.
It wasn't a response to Zionism and the invasion of Arab lands and years of organised terrorist attacks by jews on arabs then?

you can read this in most popular histories of islamic terrorism.
You'll have no trouble providing unbiased sources then.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1856
an unbiased source doesn’t exist to you, dilbert, because you think jews have poisoned the well.

you talk about the ‘arabs’ as if there’s been a pan-arab political movement from which radical islam sprung. total nonsense, of course. how many arab countries today extend a hand to palestine?

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-30 00:36:49)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,623|4510|eXtreme to the maX
Ah OK, so apart from revisionist jews and their re-writing of history you've got nothing.

Iraq, Libya, Syria and Libya extended a hand to Palestine - look what happened to them.
Iran is next.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1856
i literally edited it out when i saw that the guy was jewish because i can't be bothered to argue over the meaning or validity of a book with someone who hasn't read it and will refute it because the author is a jew. if you can't see how far down the rabbithole you are with that thinking, then i can't help you. i tend to read books rather than look at their authors' foreskin.

fyi the guy has won both a macarthur genius fellowship and a guggenheim grant - two of the biggest awards that anyone in the cultural or academic sphere can be awarded in america. the book was published by a serious NY publishing house, and, given its hugely controversial content, was no doubt gone at by an army of fact-checkers and editorial staff. but no, it's jewish proganda and revisionism! luckily books have bibliographies and citations and you can apprise and accept/refute them as you please. that is, if you're not a crank.

ironically the book makes no real claims for israel or zionism, it's about the history of radical islam as a political entity, and a close study of the muslim brotherhood. the book's real ambit is that islam suffers from a deficiency of critical middle-class thinkers today, and supposed 'celebrated' moderates like tariq ramadan, who were feted by the west's universities as a 'good' muslim intellectual, are actually speaking two languages and inciting radicals. hardly zionist conspiracy theory, is it?

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-30 01:38:46)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,623|4510|eXtreme to the maX
Thats great and all, but if you're right there should be a plethora of experts without an agenda you'll be able to pull up.
By which I mean
- Not jews
- Not neo-cons
- Not Murdoch acolytes

Uzique wrote:

book's real ambit is that islam suffers from a deficient of critical middle-class thinkers today, and supposed 'celebrated' moderates like tariq ramadan, who were feted by the west's universities as a 'good' muslim intellectual, are actually speaking two languages and inciting radicals.
But what does it say about Nazi pamphlets being the root cause of enmity between the jews and the arabs, even though they post-date the enmity?

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-10-30 01:33:13)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1856
go read a book for once in your life. no one ever said that the nazis were the inventors of historic enmity between islam and jews (or christians, for that matter). it was about the organisation of an explicitly political, not to say totalitarian-fascist, brand of islam that conceived of itself as a political party. which very quickly led to an era of extremist terrorism and violence in the name of political, rather than theological, grounds. european fascism and anti-semitic thought as it was propagated by the nazis gave incipient movements in places like egypt an organizing basis.

the entire concept of nationalism and nationhood is an idea exported by 19th century europeans. islamic terrorism is political violence more than religious violence.

you're very much reading what you want to read because your understanding of history seems to be one grand brush-stroke in which 'jews and evangelicals are all trying to lead us towards their apocalypse'. not exactly deep reading, is it?
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,623|4510|eXtreme to the maX
Would you be OK with a history of Trump written by a Fox News anchor?

Jews and evangelicals are leading us towards their apocalypse, there's not much doubt about it.
Why would the Australian PM be putting Israeli interests before Australian interests if that weren't the case?
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n … hite-house

We have nuts in the White House, nuts in the Lodge, and Israel has always been a Waco-esque holdout for nuts.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-10-30 01:50:28)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1856
i mean, paul berman can be a bit of a gadly, but he is not a 'fox news anchor'.

he's also not a neo con: he was a vocal critic of bush?

a murdoch acolyte? what does that mean, he's published in a few papers owned by murdoch?

can't believe i'm even having to defend the character of a writer i don't even care about or have a stake in. it's just one of several popular history books published recently that cover that aspect of islamic terrorism's history.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,623|4510|eXtreme to the maX
I was talking in general terms, not specifically about Berman.
Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,623|4510|eXtreme to the maX

Paul Berman wrote:

I approved on principle the overthrow of Saddam

Paul Berman wrote:

(anti-Zionism that its) "true origin ... is anti-Semitism, the assumption that the Jews are the center of the world and therefore the center of the world's evil.
Think I've heard enough from this guy thanks.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1856
what a meaningless post. you're talking in general terms about some hypothetical books that may or may not exist, written or not written by secretly pro-israeli zionist shills? i mean ... uuuuh ...
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,623|4510|eXtreme to the maX
Please find someone to support your argument who:
- Isn't jewish
- Isn't a neo-con
- Isn't a Murdoch acolyte

Paul Berman failed the first two tests.
Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1856

Dilbert_X wrote:

Paul Berman wrote:

I approved on principle the overthrow of Saddam

Paul Berman wrote:

(anti-Zionism that its) "true origin ... is anti-Semitism, the assumption that the Jews are the center of the world and therefore the center of the world's evil.
Think I've heard enough from this guy thanks.
most well-meaning liberals supported the overthrowing of saddam. not exactly a radical position at the time. the new yorker were war hawks ffs. the second part of that sentence talks about him being explicitly anti-bush, so i'm not sure how you can paint him as a 'neo-con'.

does the second point bother you because it hits home? you do indeed think that 'jews are the center of the world and therefore the center of the world's evil'.

Last edited by uziq (2019-10-30 01:59:02)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,623|4510|eXtreme to the maX
Or can I quote Mein Kampf and the Teachings of the Elders of Zion as unbiased sources?
Epstein didn't kill himself
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,623|4510|eXtreme to the maX

uziq wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Paul Berman wrote:

I approved on principle the overthrow of Saddam

Paul Berman wrote:

(anti-Zionism that its) "true origin ... is anti-Semitism, the assumption that the Jews are the center of the world and therefore the center of the world's evil.
Think I've heard enough from this guy thanks.
most well-meaning liberals supported the overthrowing of saddam. not exactly a radical position at the time.
Based on garbage propaganda and supposed threats which never existed.

does the second point bother you because it hits home? you do indeed think that 'jews are the center of the world and therefore the center of the world's evil'.
No I think Zionism is the centre of the world's evil. Thats the split which you and everyone else tries to make.

"Oh, the Palestinians only object to Zionism because they're antisemitic. That they saw their parents and children murdered and had their homes bulldozed by the IDF is irrelevant, they just hate jews for no reason. Its an arab thing you know, and has been for centuries"

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2019-10-30 02:04:07)

Epstein didn't kill himself
uziq
Member
+175|1856

Dilbert_X wrote:

Or can I quote Mein Kampf and the Teachings of the Elders of Zion as unbiased sources?
these books are published by academics, researchers and journalists. people who have to cite their sources. books that are edited. fact-checked.

i'm sorry that they have a fatally different interpretation to you, viz. not virulently hating jews, but to say that they are on the same order as 'teh teachings of the elders of zion', which is a proven forgery and would not withstand any academic scrutiny ... oh forget it.

i immediately regretted linking a jewish writer on the subject, and you've shown precisely why. well done.
Larssen
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Dilbert_X wrote:

Please find someone to support your argument who:
- Isn't jewish
Dilbert, whether or not someone was born into a jewish family doesn't inform their political stance in adulthood. There's plenty people who are ethnically identified as jews but who consider themselves (a) atheist and (b) who are not die-hard supporters of Israel or the netanyahu government.

Your argument is akin to saying that all ethnically Chinese people cannot be trusted by the fact that they're Chinese.
uziq
Member
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that is how dilbert does think.

i mean the fact the guy likens a published book, which i only raised as it was the first to come to my memory, as akin to linking the protocols of the elders of zion, says all you need to say. it's actually precisely part of the crisis in truth that we have nowadays, where people either cannot (or choose not to) discriminate between the credibility of information. we live in a world where people can equate books, even modest books of polemic that can be disagreed with and argued against, are dismissed as 'neo-con murdoch-propaganda'. even if an expert's credentials are sufficiently established -- you can just dismiss experts!!! it's so handy. even better if they are jewish.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,623|4510|eXtreme to the maX
His credentials were established by his supporting the removal of Saddam - not the removal of WMD, the removal of Saddam, and by his equating anti-Zionism with anti-semitism. So yes I'm fine with dismissing his opinions.

But yeah you can't trust a jew to write honestly or dispassionately about Israel-Palestine, there may be some but its easier and safer and more rigourous to simply find someone else.

Could we trust a catholic to write an honest history of the inquisition? Would it just be simpler to find a version written by a non-catholic?
Epstein didn't kill himself

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