BF2S Forums Gotta love the wisdom that Bush brought to the table.

honestly someone explain to me why obama would fly up to new jersey to campaign for the governor and land at new york airports?  he has done this a lot over the past month.  oh and to do it on a sunday the busiest travel day of the week...ya.   good job obama.  you just made airlines waste tons of money.  well done.

Funny how Obama personally is to blame for this just like Bush was personally responsible for certain matters when he was in office ...

I bet you would feel better if you didn't hate so much lowing ...

I guess I'll bite.

Zimmer wrote:

It's then down to the responsibility of the human being carrying that disease and the human beings around him.

Zimmer wrote:

Tbh, it's the peoples own goddamn fault for having unprotected sex and taking drugs. It's stupid and careless.

So it's stupid and careless to get the disease and we have to trust that a stupid and carelss person wouldn't be a dumbass and end up spreading it.

Zimmer wrote:

No government should be making the call on that

Isn't my government meant to protect the people?


I still don't see how it's helpful at all. Wouldn't suprise me if we'll get one of these cases in a few years.

Spark wrote:

lowing wrote:

edlT wrote:

Yet, HIV/AIDs still doesn't spread through playing unless you're sharing fucking needles and having sex.

Of course you'll just continue to disregard this and desperately try to discredit everyone else in a sad attempt to prove a losing point.

And no, neither of those kids were into heroin or sex, they had fucking blood transfusions (welcome to 2009, where that type of mistake doesn't happen unless you live in the slums..oh wait, I'm guessing you do). Do your kids have blood transfusions with their friends? Does your hospital use barbaric methods that don't include testing blood before they do a transfusion?

Sorry yer wrong, Bergalis contracted it through her infected dentist who was working on her teeth. and again, you are a liar, or you do not have kids and therefore have no idea what you are talking about regarding protecting them.

I suppose you do not want to cover the issue of detection. People who get infected do not show signs of the disease for a long time and can and will pass it on knowingly or unknowingly.

I do not need to discredit "everyone else", the sheer fuckin' numbers of people infected and getting infected does that all by itself.

Lastly, you say it does not spread unless you are playing with needles or having sex. I suppose your solution is to simply not have sex huh. Try stepping into the world of real solutions will ya.

No amount of talk to the families of two people will change the fact that HIV is spread only through direct body fluid transfer. Dental operations = yes, that could occur as it is a medical procedure. Playing in the playground = you must be fucking kidding me.

Yes, I am kidding you, because we all know kids don't get cuts or scraps,, they also don't fight or spit. Nither this nor going to the dentist is hardly ways you are describing as the only way to contract this disease. SO tell me, when will you stop squirming and admit there are more ways to contract AIDS/HIV than fucking or drug abuse?

Zimmer wrote:

Jesus lowing. Drop it already. You've been proven wrong yet you persist with your unecessary bullshit. Obama didn't start this, and you're the idiot for not reading the whole article.

Stop bringing back stupid points from back in the 90s like the Bergalis incident. That is COMPLETELY irrelevant at this time, as most, if not all invasive instruments are disposable, and there hasn't been a ridiculous case like that since. So shut up about that.

HIV/AIDS is just as bad as Hep C, and telling someone you cannot come into the country because you have such a disease is just ridiculous. Fine if it's a majorly contagious disease LIKE TUBERCULOSIS, but AIDS? Come on. It's then down to the responsibility of the human being carrying that disease and the human beings around him. No government should be making the call on that, as it isn't a directly contagious illness.

Tbh, it's the peoples own goddamn fault for having unprotected sex and taking drugs. It's stupid and careless.

You say I have been proven wrong? With what proof? I have statistics and sheer numbers of the infected population on my side, and the numbers are increasing not decreasing?   http://www.until.org/statistics.shtml?g … nAodcygdLg    How about you?

lowing wrote:

Yes, I am kidding you, because we all know kids don't get cuts or scraps,, they also don't fight or spit. Nither this nor going to the dentist is hardly ways you are describing as the only way to contract this disease. SO tell me, when will you stop squirming and admit there are more ways to contract AIDS/HIV than fucking or drug abuse?

You really are a messed up man.

So we just assume kids are going to be carrying AIDS around with them just like that, and when they play, they're going to cut themselves on a rock, which as spit on it, from a man who has AIDS. Jesus christ.

Squirming? You're the only one squirming here because of what has been said towards you, and are desperately trying to find other causes and more bullshit.

Yes AIDS can be caught by more than just drugs and sex, but any other way would involve total accident (assuming both drugs and sex is an option the human being takes). So is catching half of the diseases in the world. You can't just shut the doors because you don't want a disease to get through. You aren't going to get hit worse if you let people with AIDS come to the US.

Has anybody actually bothered to read up on the HIV figures? Mortality has decreased by 70% since 1995 and people contracting new cases aren't increasing rapidly. You CAN live with HIV/AIDS, and denying somebody of that because you aren't letting them into the country is a total disagrace. Sure, screen them and see if they have a criminal record or if they are mentally unstable, but any NORMAL person wouldn't go around stabbing people with a needle (come on Cybargs, that's just stupid). I realise the VISA has a lot of other things to take into account before letting someone through the borders, which is precisely why AIDS shouldn't just be a NO YOU CAN'T FUCKING COME IN, YOU HAVE AIDS scenario.

FEOS wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

But there is nothing in either of those links that shows the US isn't the only country to prevent people with HIV from immigrating - I'm not saying it is, just that those links don't show that not to be the case.

I believe it was Dilbert who pointed out that Australia does the same thing.

My point was less focused on HIV specifically and more focused on the class of "communicable disease"--MANY countries limit immigration based on that criteria.

I don't doubt that they do - but the link does not demonstrate that to be the case.

FEOS wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Both my wife and I have had to provide immunization records. Many times, it depends on where you are traveling to/from. If you are traveling from a "first world" country, it's usually not an issue. Traveling back, you often have to go through a medical kabuki dance, however.

Really?

I never have. Maybe that's because I've never travelled to the US from a non 1st world country.

I bet if you traveled from the UK to say the Amazonas region or SE Asia, you'd have to have a tb test when you came back.

For me, it may be a military requirement, I'm not sure. My wife may have had to because she was exposed to a susceptible population (orphans and workers). Regardless, it's not unusual.

Maybe it is. Just not something I've ever encountered. I have returned to the UK from some fairly dodgy places, but never required anything like that.

Zimmer wrote:

lowing wrote:

Yes, I am kidding you, because we all know kids don't get cuts or scraps,, they also don't fight or spit. Nither this nor going to the dentist is hardly ways you are describing as the only way to contract this disease. SO tell me, when will you stop squirming and admit there are more ways to contract AIDS/HIV than fucking or drug abuse?

You really are a messed up man.

So we just assume kids are going to be carrying AIDS around with them just like that, and when they play, they're going to cut themselves on a rock, which as spit on it, from a man who has AIDS. Jesus christ.

Squirming? You're the only one squirming here because of what has been said towards you, and are desperately trying to find other causes and more bullshit.

Yes AIDS can be caught by more than just drugs and sex, but any other way would involve total accident (assuming both drugs and sex is an option the human being takes). So is catching half of the diseases in the world. You can't just shut the doors because you don't want a disease to get through. You aren't going to get hit worse if you let people with AIDS come to the US.

Has anybody actually bothered to read up on the HIV figures? Mortality has decreased by 70% since 1995 and people contracting new cases aren't increasing rapidly. You CAN live with HIV/AIDS, and denying somebody of that because you aren't letting them into the country is a total disagrace. Sure, screen them and see if they have a criminal record or if they are mentally unstable, but any NORMAL person wouldn't go around stabbing people with a needle (come on Cybargs, that's just stupid). I realise the VISA has a lot of other things to take into account before letting someone through the borders, which is precisely why AIDS shouldn't just be a NO YOU CAN'T FUCKING COME IN, YOU HAVE AIDS scenario.

tell ya what, YOU fuckin' live with AIDS then, as for me, I want to see it wiped out, not socially accepted as some sort of new progressive culture.

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Zimmer wrote:

Jesus lowing. Drop it already. You've been proven wrong yet you persist with your unecessary bullshit. Obama didn't start this, and you're the idiot for not reading the whole article.

Stop bringing back stupid points from back in the 90s like the Bergalis incident. That is COMPLETELY irrelevant at this time, as most, if not all invasive instruments are disposable, and there hasn't been a ridiculous case like that since. So shut up about that.

HIV/AIDS is just as bad as Hep C, and telling someone you cannot come into the country because you have such a disease is just ridiculous. Fine if it's a majorly contagious disease LIKE TUBERCULOSIS, but AIDS? Come on. It's then down to the responsibility of the human being carrying that disease and the human beings around him. No government should be making the call on that, as it isn't a directly contagious illness.

Tbh, it's the peoples own goddamn fault for having unprotected sex and taking drugs. It's stupid and careless.

You say I have been proven wrong? With what proof? I have statistics and sheer numbers of the infected population on my side, and the numbers are increasing not decreasing?   http://www.until.org/statistics.shtml?g … nAodcygdLg    How about you?

You do realise that link doesn't say the numbers are increasing. It says there are x number of new infections a year, but that isolated figure demonstrates nothing.

Also:

http://www.until.org/statistics.shtml?g … nAodcygdLg

The Center for Disease Control statistics (as of 2007) show that:

    * An estimated 1.1 million people are currently living with HIV in the United States, with approximately 53,600 new infections occurring each year.

http://www.avert.org/usa-statistics.htm

At the end of 2007, the CDC estimates that 468,578 people were living with AIDS in America

Consistency FTW! Looks like one site has doubled (or halved) the figures.

What is definite, is that the numbers are decreasing in every meaningful sense - no matter which numbers you look at.

Like I told him, feel free to make AIDS/HIV part of your world, I however, choose to have an opinion it needs to be controlled, contained and eliminated, not become socially acceptable. Already said if the number of infected people increases by 1, that is stll an increase in infected people. I really don't give a shit where the actual numbers fall out, you can not tell me the number of infected people is less than ever.

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

You say I have been proven wrong? With what proof? I have statistics and sheer numbers of the infected population on my side, and the numbers are increasing not decreasing?   http://www.until.org/statistics.shtml?g … nAodcygdLg    How about you?

You do realise that link doesn't say the numbers are increasing. It says there are x number of new infections a year, but that isolated figure demonstrates nothing.

Also:

http://www.until.org/statistics.shtml?g … nAodcygdLg

The Center for Disease Control statistics (as of 2007) show that:

    * An estimated 1.1 million people are currently living with HIV in the United States, with approximately 53,600 new infections occurring each year.

http://www.avert.org/usa-statistics.htm

At the end of 2007, the CDC estimates that 468,578 people were living with AIDS in America

Consistency FTW! Looks like one site has doubled (or halved) the figures.

What is definite, is that the numbers are decreasing in every meaningful sense - no matter which numbers you look at.

Like I told him, feel free to make AIDS/HIV part of your world, I however, choose to have an opinion it needs to be controlled, contained and eliminated, not become socially acceptable. Already said if the number of infected people increases by 1, that is stll an increase in infected people. I really don't give a shit where the actual numbers fall out, you can not tell me the number of infected people is less than ever.

I can tell you, quite easily, that AIDS has been in decline in the US since about 1992.

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

You do realise that link doesn't say the numbers are increasing. It says there are x number of new infections a year, but that isolated figure demonstrates nothing.

Also:

http://www.until.org/statistics.shtml?g … nAodcygdLg

http://www.avert.org/usa-statistics.htm

Consistency FTW! Looks like one site has doubled (or halved) the figures.

What is definite, is that the numbers are decreasing in every meaningful sense - no matter which numbers you look at.

Like I told him, feel free to make AIDS/HIV part of your world, I however, choose to have an opinion it needs to be controlled, contained and eliminated, not become socially acceptable. Already said if the number of infected people increases by 1, that is still an increase in infected people. I really don't give a shit where the actual numbers fall out, you can not tell me the number of infected people is less than ever.

I can tell you, quite easily, that AIDS has been in decline in the US since about 1992.

I see, so naturally, you say there is a positive trend so the answer is to let more infected people in? Yeah, love the logic, truly, typical liberal. I see you share the Obama wisdom.

Also maybe the RATE at which people are getting infected is lower, but there are still more people getting infected.

Last edited by lowing (2009-11-02 14:46:19)

lowing wrote:

Zimmer wrote:

lol.

Dream on sunshine. It will never get eliminated. Stop living in your pathetic dream world and accept it's going to be in this world until we die. Unless you want to eradicate everyone with it? If you don't accept it as something that is now part of our lives, then you shouldn't be on this planet either.

Many people got it by accident, and now you tell me that they should be socially excluded and contained because of it?

You can't tell me that the numbers are increasing, so stop with your bullshit.

Wait a sec, a page ago it was drug abusers and sex fiends that got AIDS, now you are telling me that "many people get it be accident" and yet you feel no steps should be implimented to stop it or keep it out? The second you figure out which line of bullshit you want to pass on, get back with me

Everyone keeping track seems to disagree with you, don't know what else to tell ya. Maybe get a clue?

http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm

Oh dear. Does it say anywhere there INCREASING IN THE US? No. It's increasing in Africa, and it's pretty doubtful that they even get Visa's without AIDS.

Where does the "people getting it by accident" not coincide with Drug Abusers and sex fiends? Neither comment is correlated.... You can be a drug abuser and get it by accident. Jesus. You try and pick something out of an argument and fail.

Find me a proper study that shows that AIDS is increasing in the US. Otherwise... STFU.