BF2S Forums Israelis don't want peace

rammunition wrote:

The jews never wanted peace, its obvious. They were offered 3 TIMES A 10 YEAR TRUCE BY HAMAS. Guess what the "peace loving innocent jews" said?

You know why they want peace? So they can re-arm and build their shit. Every time Hamas wants peace, few years later they start lobbying rockets into Israel. Since you love Jewish stereotype, you must admit they are hardworking and smart. So being smart, they know what the fuck Hamas is up to and not put up with their shit.

/Arab rant here

Last I remember was a bunch of pissed off hajjis bombing civilians across the globe, not some zionists new world order. If Israel really wanted to steal land, wouldn't they have just taken over Lebanon, Syria and Jordan? Hell they have the military capability to do so as well. Remind me why the Jews spend so much money on precision guided bombs instead of MOABs? Oh that's right, they want to minimize civilian casualties, those evil Jews.

Bertster7 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Last I remember was a bunch of pissed off hajjis bombing civilians across the globe, not some zionists new world order. If Israel really wanted to steal land, wouldn't they have just taken over Lebanon, Syria and Jordan? Hell they have the military capability to do so as well. Remind me why the Jews spend so much money on precision guided bombs instead of MOABs? Oh that's right, they want to minimize civilian casualties, those evil Jews.

Thats because as a nation, they did their land stealing a long time ago. Now they just casually take extra bits on the outskirts of their territory and build settlements there. It's a bit like if the US were just to go into Mexico bulldoze some villages and build new villages there for Americans to live in - which would be completely out of order (not to mention illegal and immoral).

Personally, I think the world should look at more important and gruesome issues such as the genocide in Sudan and the ongoing resource conflict in Africa. Solve that shit first, then bitch about Israel.

Bertster7 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Thats because as a nation, they did their land stealing a long time ago. Now they just casually take extra bits on the outskirts of their territory and build settlements there. It's a bit like if the US were just to go into Mexico bulldoze some villages and build new villages there for Americans to live in - which would be completely out of order (not to mention illegal and immoral).

Personally, I think the world should look at more important and gruesome issues such as the genocide in Sudan and the ongoing resource conflict in Africa. Solve that shit first, then bitch about Israel.

Personally, I think pumping any resources (as in aid, they've got plenty of natural resources as you hinted at earlier) into Africa is a waste of time.

Fatah seem to be a fairly sensible government and turning the West Bank into a nicer place to live would be fine. If the Israelis would agree to stop going over there and bulldozing their houses to make way for more Israeli settlements on land in the West Bank - something the rest of the world are persistently telling them to stop doing and that is completely illegal.

Gaza under Hamas is a different story entirely, but if the people of Gaza ever manage to get rid of the bunch of cunts that are Hamas, then stuff might change for the better there too.

I'd rather have Fatah in charge, there was almost peace in 2005 remember? Heard they were too corrupt though.

Africa needs a complete overhaul... Problem was when all the Euro's left and were like kthnxbai.

Cybargs wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Personally, I think the world should look at more important and gruesome issues such as the genocide in Sudan and the ongoing resource conflict in Africa. Solve that shit first, then bitch about Israel.

Personally, I think pumping any resources (as in aid, they've got plenty of natural resources as you hinted at earlier) into Africa is a waste of time.

Fatah seem to be a fairly sensible government and turning the West Bank into a nicer place to live would be fine. If the Israelis would agree to stop going over there and bulldozing their houses to make way for more Israeli settlements on land in the West Bank - something the rest of the world are persistently telling them to stop doing and that is completely illegal.

Gaza under Hamas is a different story entirely, but if the people of Gaza ever manage to get rid of the bunch of cunts that are Hamas, then stuff might change for the better there too.

I'd rather have Fatah in charge, there was almost peace in 2005 remember? Heard they were too corrupt though.

Africa needs a complete overhaul... Problem was when all the Euro's left and were like kthnxbai.

Fatah are in charge - of the West Bank, which makes up more than 3/4s of the OTs.

Cybargs wrote:

Bertster7 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Last I remember was a bunch of pissed off hajjis bombing civilians across the globe, not some zionists new world order. If Israel really wanted to steal land, wouldn't they have just taken over Lebanon, Syria and Jordan? Hell they have the military capability to do so as well. Remind me why the Jews spend so much money on precision guided bombs instead of MOABs? Oh that's right, they want to minimize civilian casualties, those evil Jews.

Thats because as a nation, they did their land stealing a long time ago. Now they just casually take extra bits on the outskirts of their territory and build settlements there. It's a bit like if the US were just to go into Mexico bulldoze some villages and build new villages there for Americans to live in - which would be completely out of order (not to mention illegal and immoral).

Personally, I think the world should look at more important and gruesome issues such as the genocide in Sudan and the ongoing resource conflict in Africa. Solve that shit first, then bitch about Israel.

its been going on for over 60 years, compared to sudan which is 6-4 if i remember correct

Dilbert_X wrote:

Pug wrote:

I don't think "Israelis don't want peace" is right.

I think its "Israelis don't like the terms"

The terms are trivial from Israel's perspective.
- Retreat to the 1967 borders - ie hand back some valueless desert
- Recognise the right of return - in practice they'll use US money to buy off the Palestinians who want their land back

Hardly a big deal, but peace is not what they want.

I don't have all the details of the peace talks...do you?

And, let me tell you where I'm coming from - both sides need to chill, both are responsible, and blaming one side over the other is not productive.  That's my perspective.

And with that: if I were an Israeli...what's the guarantee?  Seems like certain groups hell bent on running Palestine (Hamas & Hez) haven't held up their bargains either (neither has Israel).

I pretty much guarantee...and these are big ifs...if Israel pulled back and the Palestinians attacked...would the world then rally to Israel?

Yes, the Israelis don't want peace but the Palestineans are a bunch of fun loving guys who just want to have fun.

Pug wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Pug wrote:

I don't think "Israelis don't want peace" is right.

I think its "Israelis don't like the terms"

The terms are trivial from Israel's perspective.
- Retreat to the 1967 borders - ie hand back some valueless desert
- Recognise the right of return - in practice they'll use US money to buy off the Palestinians who want their land back

Hardly a big deal, but peace is not what they want.

I don't have all the details of the peace talks...do you?

And, let me tell you where I'm coming from - both sides need to chill, both are responsible, and blaming one side over the other is not productive.  That's my perspective.

And with that: if I were an Israeli...what's the guarantee?  Seems like certain groups hell bent on running Palestine (Hamas & Hez) haven't held up their bargains either (neither has Israel).

I pretty much guarantee...and these are big ifs...if Israel pulled back and the Palestinians attacked...would the world then rally to Israel?

Woah, you really don't have all the details at all if you think Hezbollah have anything to do with Palestine. They're from Lebanon and are most certainly not hell bent on running Palestine. In Palestine you have the moderate Fatah and the extremist Hamas.

I support the idea of treating the Fatah run regions (the West Bank) well as an incentive for being moderate and not shooting rockets into Israel - but Israel take the opposite stance and build their new, illegal settlements in the West Bank since it is a better place to build settlements.

Fatah have not been causing any trouble for Israel, and yet the Israelis feel it is necessary to deprive the people there of their lands and homes to make way for more Israeli settlements. How can anyone not condemn behaviour like this?

Dilbert_X wrote:

Israel take the opposite stance and build their new, illegal settlements in the West Bank since it is a better place to build settlements.

And its a lot easier since the locals don't fire rockets at them.
The Palestinians hold up their part of the deal, and the Israelis continue to screw them, what are they supposed to do exactly?

That's my biggest problem with the stance of the Israeli government, where all the arguments about the Palestinians deserving all they get fall down.

The West Bank has been peaceful since under Fatah rule, Fatah are a moderate government - yet the West Bank is the target for the most aggressive Israeli expansion.

How do the Israeli apologists square that one?

What justification is there for the Israeli settlement activity in the West Bank? It's not like they're not already miles beyond the internationally agreed borders....

rdx-fx wrote:

Stability, security and prosperity first.
Then follows tolerance, understanding, and fairness.
Then you can talk about reparations, justice, and making things right.

How on Earth do you expect "stability, security and prosperity", as well as "tolerance, understanding and fairness" to exist before "justice and making things right"? You need a basis for the former that can be established by the latter.

You can't expect those things to just come out of nowhere.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Yes, the Israelis don't want peace but the Palestineans are a bunch of fun loving guys who just want to have fun.

Well its funny, there was no arab terrorism before Israel was created through terrorism.

...

Logical Fallacy

Ya know, it's funny. The rest of the Arab world looks upon Palestinians the same way Americans look at their inbred trailer trash. Yet there seem to be an awful lot of people out there hating Israel and defending the trailer trash.

Beduin wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ya know, it's funny. The rest of the Arab world looks upon Palestinians the same way Americans look at their inbred trailer trash. Yet there seem to be an awful lot of people out there hating Israel and defending the trailer trash.

Leaders of the arab countries yes, but not the arab people. There is difference.

No, there is no difference. It's human nature to want someone below you on the pecking order to shit on. The Palestinians are the lowest of the low in the Arab world but the Jews are beneath them as heathens. The fighting will never stop because to accept the Jews as equals (as the Palestinians would have to do) would forever mean the Palestinians have no one beneath them to shit on.