ATG
Banned
+5,233|5957|Global Command
Okay.

Are patients in the UK not denied kidney transplants if they have a history of boozing? Are breast cancer victims not being denied treatment? Is Canadas health care system not on the verge of collapse?

Is Obama not resurrecting The Death Book?


I say to my fellow Americans; you go right a head and bring those weapons to the town hall meetings, just act within the law.

I say to politicians and supporters of a socialized medicine;

GO FUCK YOURSELF


* edit;

more of an editorial than a thread tbh
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|5014

Are patients in the UK not denied kidney transplants if they have a history of boozing?
Fair enough, don't want to see a good liver wasted on somebody who'll waste it.
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|5422|Truthistan

ATG wrote:

Okay.

Are patients in the UK not denied kidney transplants if they have a history of boozing? Are breast cancer victims not being denied treatment? Is Canadas health care system not on the verge of collapse?

Is Obama not resurrecting The Death Book?


I say to my fellow Americans; you go right a head and bring those weapons to the town hall meetings, just act within the law.

I say to politicians and supporters of a socialized medicine;

GO FUCK YOURSELF


* edit;

more of an editorial than a thread tbh
I think I'm goin to have to hit the "Oh for fuck sakes" button on this one. Did you read these stories with an analytical eye or with a set of Fox news driven hysteria glasses? Well allow me to provide you with a Hysterectomy.

1. from the first story a 22 yr old alcoholic whose already killed his liver and needs a kidney transplant? the story says "The alcoholic, from Dagenham, Essex, had admitted binge drinking since he was 13 but was only taken to hospital for the first time with liver problems 10 weeks ago."
He comes into the hospital for the first time with severe liver disease and needs a kidney. For the first time... He wasn't interested in taking care of himself or in getting cured, its sounds like the consequences of his actions caught up with his and then he got scared. I'm sure that he would have been put on dialysis and if that didn't help him then he was probably finished anyway. dead at 22 from alcoholism now that's really hard core he must have been drinking a one or two 40's of vodka a day for a while to do that to himself. This story is a sad use of a mother pain to make a politcal point that really doesn't show anything except 11 year old children shouldn't be given booze. This story is Just trying to scare those jim beam drink'n red necks.

2. second story. Breast cancer studies, or any cancer study looks at age and survival rates, the story says at a certain age treating with drugs is as effective on survival. They do the same thing with prostate cancer, you're 75 yrs old got prostate cancer that will kill in 10 years, chances are you're not going to live that long so why bother cutting out your prostate either. In fact the risks of surgeries on the elderly can outweigh the potential benefits. This story is just trying to scare women on this one.

3. third story. And the last people you want to talk to in Canada about Canadian Medicare is the Canadian Medical Assocation, talk about vested interests and a group that wants to make bundles of cash like their American cousins. If Canada's system is to be faulted for anything its that they have fee for service instead of paying all doctors a salary like in europe. In fact, the lump sum payment the Association is complaining about looks like a move towards putting doctors on salary.

4. fourth story. Lastly, the death boards Books.... Well what can you say about trying to force people to tell other people what their wishes would be if they were to become medically incapacitated.... There is nothing wrong with that, its one of those things that everyone should do, and if you are one of those poeple who would want the plug pulled, then that person would be doing their family a favor if that person would put down the bottle of jim beam and write out their wishes so that their family wouldnt have to be tormented by being the ones to make the decision for the lazy sob. /my rant. Anyway advance directives are a far cry from euthanasia.

So people get old and die, people get sick and die, people drink or drug or get fat and ruin their health and die, people do stupid stuff get hurt and die. PErsonally I would rather not have a privateer insruance company, a greedy doctor and a morally bankrupt hospital jolly rogering my ass into the grave so that when I die my family can be put into the poor house. Good economic health care reform and a public option make good economic sense, just like the regulation of wall street and those crooks makes good ecoomic sense, calling that socialism is just red bating bullshit.

SO "I say to politicians and supporters who are for profiteering off of sick people, pushing sick people into bankruptcy, denying sick people health care, denying the poor health care and just plain mean and greedy big insurance centered medicine;"

GO FUCK YOURSELF


Anyway I would put these little stories right up there with "Obama death camps" "Obama hitler signs" and "false pleas to our free market economy" which doesn't really exist, and far fringe nut kobs showing up at town halls (with or without guns.) They make for face palm news stories. You just have to hope that no one is going to take these garbage stories too seriously and start shooting... but as you know there is always a small percentage that ruins it for the rest.


But  I think I will follow your advice an go fuck myself.... time to turn on the porn, at least its more realistic than the news lately.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|5976|San Diego, CA, USA

ATG wrote:

I say to politicians and supporters of a socialized medicine;

GO FUCK YOURSELF
Tell us how you really feel :-P


I hear you brother.  The Democrats are over reaching.  If the polls continue the 2010 should start to correct the problem.  Until then its our collective voices that are somewhat pulling back the reigns on Congress - we can't ease up.

And if you think all this heath care legislation is bad, wait til Obama pushes his Immigration bill through Congress later this year or early next year...it'll be a barn burner.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|5976|San Diego, CA, USA

Macbeth wrote:

Are patients in the UK not denied kidney transplants if they have a history of boozing?
Fair enough, don't want to see a good liver wasted on somebody who'll waste it.
In the United States they are getting closer to growing your own organs using adult stem cells:

Source: http://www.procprblog.com/new-organs-ca … ells-study

We may also use pigs.  The procedure is to take a slice of your DNA and splice it into a pig embryo.  When it grows it would then be genetically close to you and its organs could be harvested without having to take toxic drugs to reduce the chance of rejection.

Source: http://singularityhub.com/2009/06/08/gr … n-the-lab/


Oh and all this doesn't come cheap.  One note though, other countries have laxer laws against use embyronic stem cells - I haven't seen their technology closer to clinical trials as the two cases I mentioned above.
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|6203|Noizyland

Macbeth wrote:

Are patients in the UK not denied kidney transplants if they have a history of boozing?
Fair enough, don't want to see a good liver wasted on somebody who'll waste it.
Privatised medicine does the same thing anyway. They have a certain period where a person has to be completely free of booze - I believe it's a period of six months. This is in part to make the transplant easier, (ridding the body of toxins,) and also to determine whether the person is worthy of recieving that massive gift of an organ. If the person has even a pint of beer in this time they are bypassed and the organ is given to the next person in line. The unfortunate 22 year-old bloke in the story was simply too far gone. His fate would have been no different under private healthcare.

Consider if they had operated on him - given his state he probably would have rejected the organ. It would have been wasted and he would have died anyway. It's not as simple as replacing a damaged engine part in your car.



(Edit: Hee hee. Massive Organ...)
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6238|Nårvei

You want to kill the idea of socilized medicine because of one case?

I applaude your OP ATG for being 100% pointless, other than that I refer to Tys post ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Barrakuda777
Member
+86|6164|Somewhere near a shrub or rock
Well, for what its worth, I have had nothing but great experiances with the NHS, I have more of my "skellington" on record than I would like and have never had a bad experiance.

What are your concerns?

If i had a political party over here propose to scrap the NHS I would actually get the incentive to place my first vote for any other party (im nearly 30 and have never felt the need to place my vote, one set of weasels offering policies that are much of a muchness and that they wont stick to anyway!!)

Kooda
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|5976|San Diego, CA, USA

Barrakuda777 wrote:

Well, for what its worth, I have had nothing but great experiances with the NHS, I have more of my "skellington" on record than I would like and have never had a bad experiance.

What are your concerns?

If i had a political party over here propose to scrap the NHS I would actually get the incentive to place my first vote for any other party (im nearly 30 and have never felt the need to place my vote, one set of weasels offering policies that are much of a muchness and that they wont stick to anyway!!)

Kooda
God forbid you have a serious medical issue.  I don't think there's a problem with routine check-ups - those doctors can do in a few minutes.  But here in the United States you go in and complain about something we actually do tests like CAT scans, blood draws, etc.

Part of that is because here in the United States doctors have very high costs for malpractice insurance.  And to cover their asses they do these tests, some of which are probably unnecessary and adds to our costs.  That's why tort reform is so important - in Texas they have tort reform and medical costs have gone down dramatically for everyone.

In California right now there was a case that was going to the State Supreme court that could allow ANY amount to be sued for malpractice...luckily the court refused to see the case that capped non-economic damanges to $250,000.

Source: http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/ca … 24653.html
Barrakuda777
Member
+86|6164|Somewhere near a shrub or rock
Dont know what you would consider serious....

Had a kidneystone that the did very nicely with.
Broken ribs
Fractured knuckle
Keyhole surgery on my knee
I have spent more time in A&E for football related leg injuries
Tonsills out

Not to mention a 4 hour op on the face where there was a risk of face parallysis if they touched the nerve

So, dont know if that would count?

nickb64
formerly from OC (it's EXACTLY like on tv)[truth]
+77|5039|Greatest Nation on Earth(USA)

Barrakuda777 wrote:

If i had a political party over here propose to scrap the NHS
Never going to happen...

NHS is the 3rd largest employer on earth after the Chinese Red Army and the Indian National Railways
ELITE-UK
Scratching my back
+170|5902|SHEFFIELD, ENGLAND

Barrakuda777 wrote:

Dont know what you would consider serious....

Had a kidneystone that the did very nicely with.
Broken ribs
Fractured knuckle
Keyhole surgery on my knee
I have spent more time in A&E for football related leg injuries
Tonsills out

Not to mention a 4 hour op on the face where there was a risk of face parallysis if they touched the nerve

So, dont know if that would count?

Im with you on this 100%

A few weeks ago i went into the hopsital complaining about really bad abdominal pains. They rished my through in mere minutes, and quickly gave me morphene and diagnosed the problem. A few hours later i had a operation to remove my appendix or i would have died.

The service was first class and i applaud the NHS for doing such great work.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6164|Salt Lake City

That kid needing the kidney would have been denied in this country as well.  Unless you have a relative willing to donate the kidney, you would have to go on a waiting list for a kidney with a close enough match to work.  Being that your liver and now kidneys are shot because of binge drinking would get you denied from the list, or put way down at the bottom.

And if you don't think we don't already have "Death Panels" , you are totally naive.  If you don't think that private insurance companies don't already look at what their expected costs and liabilities will be when determining what they will and will not pay for, you just haven't had to deal with them.
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|5925

Harmor wrote:

We may also use pigs.  The procedure is to take a slice of your DNA and splice it into a pig embryo.
sweet! i can use socialized medicenters to cure my genetically induced swine-flu. America, Fuck Yeah!
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|5839|'Murka

Varegg wrote:

You want to kill the idea of socilized medicine because of one case?

I applaude your OP ATG for being 100% pointless, other than that I refer to Tys post ...
Why not? People keep trying to kill the idea of privatized medicine based on a handful of cases...rather than facts and stuff like that.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Macbeth
Banned
+2,443|5014

Ty wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Are patients in the UK not denied kidney transplants if they have a history of boozing?
Fair enough, don't want to see a good liver wasted on somebody who'll waste it.
Privatised medicine does the same thing anyway. They have a certain period where a person has to be completely free of booze - I believe it's a period of six months. This is in part to make the transplant easier, (ridding the body of toxins,) and also to determine whether the person is worthy of recieving that massive gift of an organ. If the person has even a pint of beer in this time they are bypassed and the organ is given to the next person in line. The unfortunate 22 year-old bloke in the story was simply too far gone. His fate would have been no different under private healthcare.

Consider if they had operated on him - given his state he probably would have rejected the organ. It would have been wasted and he would have died anyway. It's not as simple as replacing a damaged engine part in your car.



(Edit: Hee hee. Massive Organ...)
If they had given him an organ and he rejected it or he was given one and ruined it again they'll just use it as an example against socialized medicine.

In any case, the quality of healthcare isn't a concern when it comes to socialized medicine for me, it's how we're going to pay for it is what worries me.

Then again I got awesome health insurance plan which only makes me pay a $5 copay for a $120 worth of prescription sleep aids. So maybe I don't know how is it to be one of those fucked types.
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|5898
@OP: Private healthcare is 1000x more discriminating and selective than public healthcare. If our evil Soviet socialized policies sometimes deny treatment to one person, for every rare publicised case of that happening, there are probably 1000 treatment rejections from American companies. So what's your actual point, other than to be all Yankee-doodle and Fox News about the matter?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Pierre
I hunt criminals down for a living
+68|6103|Belgium

Varegg wrote:

You want to kill the idea of socilized medicine because of one case?

I applaude your OP ATG for being 100% pointless, other than that I refer to Tys post ...
What he said.^^^

@ ATG: how are you doing lately? Is your situation any better these days then it used to be? Are you still able to buy healthcare (meds, treatment, etc.) for your family?

You know, in Europe, when you can't afford (e.g. banckrupty, lost your job, ...) or are denied private health insurance (e.g. in the case of pre-existing conditions), you still have full acces to healthcare at a reasonable price, not only in case of emergency. Think about that.
Red Forman
Banned
+402|4828

Pierre wrote:

you still have full acces to healthcare at a reasonable price, not only in case of emergency. Think about that.
its free here.  think about that.
Pierre
I hunt criminals down for a living
+68|6103|Belgium

Red Forman wrote:

Pierre wrote:

you still have full acces to healthcare at a reasonable price, not only in case of emergency. Think about that.
its free here.  think about that.
LMAO
Red Forman
Banned
+402|4828

Pierre wrote:

Red Forman wrote:

Pierre wrote:

you still have full acces to healthcare at a reasonable price, not only in case of emergency. Think about that.
its free here.  think about that.
LMAO
what?  you don't have to pay.  ask the mexicans.
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|6203|Noizyland

Not having to pay legally and not paying are two different things though. The fact that the healthcare industry can absorb the cost from illegals who don't pay their own healthcare doesn't mean that it doesn't get paid - it just passes the cost on to Americans who actually do pay legally for their healthcare.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Red Forman
Banned
+402|4828
not just illegals.  but, how is that different from the more you make, the more taxes you pay going to the same pot?
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6099|UK

Red Forman wrote:

Pierre wrote:

Red Forman wrote:


its free here.  think about that.
LMAO
what?  you don't have to pay.  ask the mexicans.
Only because they can get away with it.  But that's another story of your countries many other failing. 

If you're a law abiding citizen, and like your healthy credit rating & the good things in your home you pay.  Simple.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Red Forman
Banned
+402|4828
medicare?

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