Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7005
The term “Jump the Shark” has been with us for a while. The clever metaphor is used for the moment when something of cultural significance begins to lose its luster, and descends into lameness.  It is a reference to the T.V. show “Happy Days,” specifically the episode when Fonzie water skied over shark infested waters.   This is the precise moment where the show began to decline.

Republicans and conservatives are dancing with glee every time a new poll comes out showing Obama’s poll numbers going down faster than a Hilton (Perez or Paris) after a nice dinner and a couple of cocktails. The support for things like Universal Health Care, closing Gitmo, and Cap and Trade are sinking even faster. Yet, that’s not the whole story.  Something else is going on here.  Something that begs the question: Has Liberalism “Jumped the Shark”?

Over the last sixty days or so, we’ve seen some amazing things. We saw a “wise Latina,” a self-described “affirmative action baby” claim that her statements were taken out of context or merely “meant to inspire,” and that race has nothing to do with her job performance. The White House has re-branded the $787 billion “stimulus package” a “stabilization package.” Our Vice-President, devious genius that he is, stated that we need to, “crazy as it sounds,” spend like lunatics to avoid bankruptcy. A gay blogger and gay civil rights champion called a black guy “the worst thing [he] could think of…a faggot.” We saw our government allow Iranian protesters, who peacefully challenged a rigged election, get shot in the street. Concurrently, we demanded that a tin-pot dictator be reinstated after his government got wise to his schemes and legally booted him.

All of these little vignettes, as well as countless others over the last month or two, do not bold well for our little leftist friends. They are examples of liberalism in action, naked and unfiltered. They are the equivalent of an “unforced error” in tennis. There is no opposition baiting these mistakes and revelations. This is in their own voices, not through the analysis of a Rush Limbaugh “teachable moment,” a Glenn Beck meltdown, or Hotair.com “quote of the day.”

It is liberalism unplugged, on display for all to see.


continued
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/lscot … the-shark/

Have liberals jump the shark? 
and to be fair....the guy who wrote the article notes that conservatives jumped the shark in 2005...

Is it time for a new type of politics and or a 3rd party that is powerful enough to compete with the out of control and out of touch liberals and conservatives?

Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-07-25 14:13:57)

Love is the answer
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6938

It's been time for a third party for the past 70 years or so.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6694|North Carolina
Civil Libertarianism is becoming en vogue.  People are beginning to realize that social issues should be mostly left up to the privacy of individuals.

Economic policy is where things get tricky.  This most recent economic crisis is the result of the failure of liberal social engineering (the CRA) and conservative deregulation (the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act).

If things continue as they currently are, we are headed for more financial regulation but probably a more laissez-faire approach to dealing with failed businesses.

In short, antitrust laws will likely be reformed, while bailouts will probably stop altogether.

This isn't so much a specific political movement as it is simply being more practical with policy.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6940|USA
Yes, the day they elected Jimmy Carter
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6845
I think you might find that American politics jumped the shark quite some time ago. Enjoy swinging from one extreme to another for the next however many centuries it takes for the thing to unravel.

https://www.strategosinc.com/images/feedba1.gif

Maybe it's just the engineer in me. I don't get why moderation seems to be such a dirty word.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-07-28 12:54:14)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|6818|Global Command
America, Cam, is an agent of Chaos.


Let me now apologize for all the ills my nation is causing for the world.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6996|67.222.138.85

CameronPoe wrote:

I think you might find that American politics jumped the shark quite some time ago. Enjoy swinging from one extreme to another for the next however many centuries it takes for the thing to unravel.

http://www.strategosinc.com/images/feedba1.gif

Maybe it's just the engineer in me. I don't get why moderation seems to be such a dirty word.
lol, American politics is going the other way. Both parties are becoming more and more similar, and as a result, more moderate.

The problem is the middle ground is absolutely stupid, no matter who you are.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6845

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

lol, American politics is going the other way. Both parties are becoming more and more similar, and as a result, more moderate.

The problem is the middle ground is absolutely stupid, no matter who you are.
Yeah, those right wing fundamentalist Christian nutjobs are really taking a shine to abortion. If you think there is anything moderate about America then you're delusional. America is the land of excess, and that is exactly what it is famous for, good or bad.

Isn't the Democrat party trying to implement universal health care? That is SOOOOoooo right wing!

And forgive me for not noticing the Republicans steal Democrat policy when they reduced taxes numerous times last term and the term before that. Uggghh.

There are of course some similiraties granted: irresponsibility, lack of commitment to principles, service to lobby groups first and foremost, etc., but that isn't America-specific, that's global.

Keep ploughing your monodirectional path to ruin their Maniac. Let the adults in the middle decide who best to take office using their swing votes. Pray they get a decent choice though.

PS Were you lying unconscious at the bottom of a cavern when Sarah 'Retarded Hick' Palin was made vice presidential candidate?

Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-07-28 13:42:49)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,057|7061|PNW

CameronPoe wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

lol, American politics is going the other way. Both parties are becoming more and more similar, and as a result, more moderate.

The problem is the middle ground is absolutely stupid, no matter who you are.
Yeah, those right wing fundamentalist Christian nutjobs are really taking a shine to abortion. If you think there is anything moderate about America then you're delusional. America is the land of excess, and that is exactly what it is famous for.
And Hillary Clinton shoots ducks with Dick Cheney.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6845

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

And Hillary Clinton shoots ducks with Dick Cheney.
If you get fooled by election tricks played on the less intelligent segments of society then I don't know what to say. Didn't John 'Anti-Vietnam' Kerry do likewise?

Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-07-28 13:20:27)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|6818|Global Command

CameronPoe wrote:

And forgive me for not noticing the Republicans steal Democrat policy when they reduced taxes numerous times last term and the term before that. Uggghh.
you sir, are comically in error.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6910|London, England

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I think you might find that American politics jumped the shark quite some time ago. Enjoy swinging from one extreme to another for the next however many centuries it takes for the thing to unravel.

http://www.strategosinc.com/images/feedba1.gif

Maybe it's just the engineer in me. I don't get why moderation seems to be such a dirty word.
lol, American politics is going the other way. Both parties are becoming more and more similar, and as a result, more moderate.

The problem is the middle ground is absolutely stupid, no matter who you are.
It looks from here that your left is getting more left and the right more right. So Poe's feedback analogy makes sense imo
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6694|North Carolina

Mekstizzle wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

I think you might find that American politics jumped the shark quite some time ago. Enjoy swinging from one extreme to another for the next however many centuries it takes for the thing to unravel.

http://www.strategosinc.com/images/feedba1.gif

Maybe it's just the engineer in me. I don't get why moderation seems to be such a dirty word.
lol, American politics is going the other way. Both parties are becoming more and more similar, and as a result, more moderate.

The problem is the middle ground is absolutely stupid, no matter who you are.
It looks from here that your left is getting more left and the right more right. So Poe's feedback analogy makes sense imo
Our left is nowhere near as left-wing as Europe's.  If anything, America is right of center when compared to the First World overall.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6845

ATG wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

And forgive me for not noticing the Republicans steal Democrat policy when they reduced taxes numerous times last term and the term before that. Uggghh.
you sir, are comically in error.
I'm implying that the Dems don't generally cut taxes (certainly not on the upper echelons of society), as opposed to the Repubs. Is this an error? One is 'top down', the other is 'bottom up'.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-07-29 01:40:32)

Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6996|67.222.138.85

CameronPoe wrote:

Were you lying unconscious at the bottom of a cavern when Sarah 'Retarded Hick' Palin was made vice presidential candidate?
Were you incapacitated when the Republicans picked a hard-line conservative to appeal to the voter base, as they had a moderate Presidential candidate?

You have an absurdly skewed idea view of America. There are idiots to the far left and right everywhere, but American politics is becoming more and more centrist.

It boils down to the same shit from both sides. Sure there are differences, they are still difference parties, but when it comes down to creating legislation that actually gets through the end result is pretty damn moderate. You look (in error) at what parties claim are their goals - of course those are nearly polar opposites - but those are the "election tricks" you deride others for being fooled by.

CameronPoe wrote:

ATG wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

And forgive me for not noticing the Republicans steal Democrat policy when they reduced taxes numerous times last term and the term before that. Uggghh.
you sir, are comically in error.
I'm implying that the Dems don't generally cut taxes (certainly not on the upper echelons of society), as opposed to the Repubs. Is this an error? One is 'top down', the other is 'bottom up'.
The conservatives have not been very financially fucking conservative lately, that I believe is what ATG is getting at.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6845

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Were you incapacitated when the Republicans picked a hard-line conservative to appeal to the voter base, as they had a moderate Presidential candidate?

You have an absurdly skewed idea view of America. There are idiots to the far left and right everywhere, but American politics is becoming more and more centrist.

It boils down to the same shit from both sides. Sure there are differences, they are still difference parties, but when it comes down to creating legislation that actually gets through the end result is pretty damn moderate. You look (in error) at what parties claim are their goals - of course those are nearly polar opposites - but those are the "election tricks" you deride others for being fooled by.
The Repubs were grasping at straws - it was way too late for moderation. The general public were going to swing wildly the other way because of what had passed beforehand, which is exactly my point. If they had chosen McCain then your point might stand but frankly we all know that they didn't. There is a Dem supermajority in the Senate for christs sake.

American politics more centrist? Get back to me with the number of Republicans in the Senate and Congress voting in favour of UHC when the votes actually happen.....

Ever hear of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act? What a fine example of moderate bipartisan American politics.....

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

The conservatives have not been very financially fucking conservative lately, that I believe is what ATG is getting at.
The conservatives are not in power.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6395|eXtreme to the maX
I think most political parties ceased trying to be intellectually honest a good while ago.
They say anything to get into power, when they do they feed their supporter base, put into practice what they know is flawed ideology and spend much of their remaining time trying to ensure their reign continues.
The interests of people and the country are essentially peripheral.
Fuck Israel
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6442|what

Two party system politics don't work, if you are a strong supporter of one party, but don't like the direction they are headed your only other real option is to choose the party with whom you're completely opposed to in most other areas.

Over the last 50 years both parties in America have shifted significantly to the right, I agree, but that does not mean Liberalism is over by any means. Especially when you consider that the Conservatives continue to move further to the right in the hope of distinguishing themselves from the Liberals.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6996|67.222.138.85

CameronPoe wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Were you incapacitated when the Republicans picked a hard-line conservative to appeal to the voter base, as they had a moderate Presidential candidate?

You have an absurdly skewed idea view of America. There are idiots to the far left and right everywhere, but American politics is becoming more and more centrist.

It boils down to the same shit from both sides. Sure there are differences, they are still difference parties, but when it comes down to creating legislation that actually gets through the end result is pretty damn moderate. You look (in error) at what parties claim are their goals - of course those are nearly polar opposites - but those are the "election tricks" you deride others for being fooled by.
The Repubs were grasping at straws - it was way too late for moderation. The general public were going to swing wildly the other way because of what had passed beforehand, which is exactly my point. If they had chosen McCain then your point might stand but frankly we all know that they didn't. There is a Dem supermajority in the Senate for christs sake.
The point is not that they didn't swing to the other side, only that the pendulum isn't going very far. The effect of the different political powers being in office is minimal at best when you look at the big picture.

CameronPoe wrote:

American politics more centrist? Get back to me with the number of Republicans in the Senate and Congress voting in favour of UHC when the votes actually happen.....
You show me the number of Dems that didn't vote for it/demanded changes to it before they would vote for it.

CameronPoe wrote:

Ever hear of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act? What a fine example of moderate bipartisan American politics.....
lol, Bush signed stimulus package bills too. Not very conservative.

CameronPoe wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

The conservatives have not been very financially fucking conservative lately, that I believe is what ATG is getting at.
The conservatives are not in power.
Lately being the last ten or so years.
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6283|Truthistan
I don't know how liberalism could have jumped the shark yet. Liberalism is still on the rise due to the fact that the Republicans just finished their jumping the shark ala last election where they got their hats handed to them and good kick in the ass out the door.


The comments about wild oscillations in the the democratic process are over stated.
Since Reagan and Gingrich the politics in the US has moved ever more to the right at a pretty steady pace. Its only the last election that's caused a whipsaw because the Republicans did such a bad job. When the Republicans got control of Congress and the presidency it was the worst thing in the world that could have happened to them because they had no one else to blame.

The Republicans only play a blame game where they say vote for us because

1. big government is bad - Reads we don't want to be responsible and we don't want govt to compete with private enterprise if there is a profit to be made
2. social programs are bad - reads being cold wet and hungry is an educational experience.
3. you can spend your money better than the government - reads screw social programs go buy a Mercedes, "what? can't afford one, well we weren't talking to you, we were talking to the people we represent." OR "let them eat cake."
4. Don't blame us for not doing anything its gridlock - reads a prayer "God I hope we don't get control of Congress and the presidency because then we might actually have to do something."

But then the roads start getting potholes, bridges start collapsing, you got two wars going on, you have to start showing up at airports 2 hours a head of time because some guy is working the terrorism alert level colors like a disco strobe, the price at the pump goes nuts and everyone else is putting their hands in your pockets and the anti-govt guys IN govt say wow isn't the market great and aren't our friends making piles of money. And then suddenly the low tax, small govt, no regulation anti-everything mantra starts to look like the load of bullshit that it actually is, that the govt starts to look like they have abdicated goverance in favor of crony capitalism and then people start to feel really cheated and screwed. I say that qualifies as a jump the shark.

I still remember when the Republicans used to cry gridlock all the time, using it as a blunt force object to force congress to move in their direction. That was all baloney because they never wanted to accomplish anything. they have no goals, no positive path towards prosperity and when they had all the power what did they do? nothing? why? because they don't have anything positive to contribute from their party platform.
The platform might as well be deny, delay, defray and denigrate.... you can only play the part of "anti-everything" for a while because sooner or later the people are going to pick up on any positive message that resonates, even if its a liberal message.

Do you remember in July 2008 when Senator Phil Gramm, said "You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession."  "We have sort of become a nation of whiners." I do, I think that message came out when the Repubicans had lost touch with utter reality and were in total free fall.

But just to show I see it both ways I'll say this
The worst thing that could have happened to the democrats is to get control of Congress and the presidency. In fact I think its the death nail for either party because then its time to put up or shut up and get the hell out. Right now the "blue dogs" and other groups getting paid off by the insurance industry are putting the nails in the democrats coffin, much to delight of Republicans. The Dems promised health care and a public option and they better deliver or they aren't going to make that jump over the shark and while it might be a victory of sorts for the Republicans it certainly won't be a victory for the American people. It will turn out to be another victory for those that don't want to see anything done to stop the fleecing the American people.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6845

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

The point is not that they didn't swing to the other side, only that the pendulum isn't going very far. The effect of the different political powers being in office is minimal at best when you look at the big picture.
The pendulum swung far man, even the blind and deaf realise that. Take a look at that American Recovery & Reinvestment Act - full of stupid amounts of petty pork shove in just because the Dems knew the Reps could do nothing to stop it. I sincerely doubt the Reps, if they had stayed in power, would ever have gone so far in that direction. The votes in each house tell quite the story.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

You show me the number of Dems that didn't vote for it/demanded changes to it before they would vote for it.
246 Dems In Favour, 7 Against
176 Republicans Against, 0 In Favour

Senate: 61 For, 37 Against (3 Reps in favour!)

On a bill that was jaw-droppingly not moderate. The Dems demanded changes alright: they demanded all their pet projects be included in the house, the Senate acted marginally more responsibly but the end result was essentially the same - a totally polarised vote on a ridiculously large spending bill full of dross (and especially dross that Republicans would never usually even dream of).

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

lol, Bush signed stimulus package bills too. Not very conservative.
Yeah his stimulus packages were so similar to the one I just mentioned....

The usual mantra always applied, cutting taxes and granting tax rebates = all problems solved.

This is what Bush and his predecessors contributed towards, which is quite at odds with the mantra being pushed by the incumbents:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/15/Real_After_Tax_Income_Changes_1979-2004.png

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Lately being the last ten or so years.
Oh so the Reps didn't push through wave after wave of tax cut benefiting the upper echelons of society and the body corporate. They may not have controlled their spending but it takes far more than one aspect to define a party. On the whole they were militarily hawkish and neoimperialist and not interested in a rapidly widening gap between a tiny elite and the rest of the nation. The new administration, time will tell of course, appear to be acting more responsibly and diplomatically on the international front. Dem interest in the latter point is arguable but their advocacy of UHC and their aforementioned American Recovery Act would suggest they firmly want to reverse the nasty trend.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-07-29 16:53:26)

Narupug
Fodder Mostly
+150|5886|Vacationland
I vote we change this topic to: Has Conservatism Jumped the Shark? You know with the whole thing about getting soundly beaten in the last two elections.
BVC
Member
+325|6985
Multi party governments only work exist when the electoral system allows them to.

If you want to see more than two parties in power, proportional representation might be the way forward...
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6757
Jumping the shark isn't "the moment when something of cultural significance begins to lose its luster, and descends into lameness"

It's when something has been around for so long it restores to ridiculous plotlines to stay fresh.

A ridiculous plotline would be something like the trying to oust someone on a technicality that has been proven to not apply to them, Australians with American insurance, or moments of silence for theoretical lost jobs.
Narupug
Fodder Mostly
+150|5886|Vacationland

Doctor Strangelove wrote:

Jumping the shark isn't "the moment when something of cultural significance begins to lose its luster, and descends into lameness"

It's when something has been around for so long it restores to ridiculous plotlines to stay fresh.

A ridiculous plotline would be something like the trying to oust someone on a technicality that has been proven to not apply to them, Australians with American insurance, or moments of silence for theoretical lost jobs.
Is that a yes?

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