No they're not. Israel may say they are, but in reality they just aren't building any new ones. So they are keeping their settlements but by not building more the international eye is turned away again.lowing wrote:
Why thank you it is about time you admitted I was right, but please do not stop with your little personal attacks, I enjoy reading itCameronPoe wrote:
Hey it's tough being right all the time. And since when was the West Bank handed back? lollowing wrote:
Actually I was thinking more along the lines of Gaza and the West Bank
but your little squirming smart ass comments are nothing if not adorable
It was not handed back, settlements are being dismattled
I can see Cam, that we will not change each others view on this one.CameronPoe wrote:
It may cite the resolution, but ultimately it was meaningless claptrap out of what everyone knows to be a largely pointless talkshop whose main role is to lend some semblance of 'legitimacy' to wars, invasions and embargoes. It had no moral right. How some ambassador from New Zealand has a right to vote on the fate of somebody in Palestine is beyond me.Karbin wrote:
Yup... that was the UN plan. If the Security Council hadn't dropped the ball. As I stated earlier in the thread:
While the plan was never implemented, Israel's Declaration of Independence of May 1948 cites the UN resolution among the items recognizing the right of the Jewish People to establish a state.
I never said The West Bank had been handed back. I did say it was a mess. (see Oslo Accords)
And yes, I have been there..... three times as a "Blue Beret" with no axe to grind.
lowing said the West Bank had been handed back. Sorry.
I say it dose, you say it don't.
End of story.
And that's fair enough. Thanks for the chat.Karbin wrote:
I can see Cam, that we will not change each others view on this one.
I say it dose, you say it don't.
End of story.
Now if the twits in ME could handle it this way.............CameronPoe wrote:
And that's fair enough. Thanks for the chat.Karbin wrote:
I can see Cam, that we will not change each others view on this one.
I say it dose, you say it don't.
End of story.
Actually do I didn't, I said Israel had conceded land. I also take note that you are not acknowledging that Gaza has been a source of rocket attacks into Israel. The point being, which I know you understand but can not admit, that when Israel leaves areas of land, it is used against them.CameronPoe wrote:
It may cite the resolution, but ultimately it was meaningless claptrap out of what everyone knows to be a largely pointless talkshop whose main role is to lend some semblance of 'legitimacy' to wars, invasions and embargoes. It had no moral right. How some ambassador from New Zealand has a right to vote on the fate of somebody in Palestine is beyond me.Karbin wrote:
Yup... that was the UN plan. If the Security Councle hadn't dropped the ball. As I stated earler in the thread:
While the plan was never implemented, Israel's Declaration of Independence of May 1948 cites the UN resolution among the items recognizing the right of the Jewish People to establish a state.
I never said The West Bank had been handed back. I did say it was a mess. (see Oslo Accords)
And yes, I have been there..... three times as a "Blue Beret" with no axe to grind.
lowing said the West Bank had been handed back. Sorry.
ya mean accomplish nothing? Yeah I think they got that down pretty good.Karbin wrote:
Now if the twits in ME could handle it this way.............CameronPoe wrote:
And that's fair enough. Thanks for the chat.Karbin wrote:
I can see Cam, that we will not change each others view on this one.
I say it dose, you say it don't.
End of story.
Only a babbling idiot wouldn't acknowledge that rockets come from Gaza. They did even when Israel occupied the area. They probably won't stop until the Palestinian issue has been fully resolved either. And the Sinai Peninsula is 100% proof positive that you are full of shit as usual.lowing wrote:
Actually do I didn't, I said Israel had conceded land. I also take note that you are not acknowledging that Gaza has been a source of rocket attacks into Israel. The point being, which I know you understand but can not admit, that when Israel leaves areas of land, it is used against them.
Whats your point on Sinai?CameronPoe wrote:
Only a babbling idiot wouldn't acknowledge that rockets come from Gaza. They did even when Israel occupied the area. They probably won't stop until the Palestinian issue has been fully resolved either. And the Sinai Peninsula is 100% proof positive that you are full of shit as usual.lowing wrote:
Actually do I didn't, I said Israel had conceded land. I also take note that you are not acknowledging that Gaza has been a source of rocket attacks into Israel. The point being, which I know you understand but can not admit, that when Israel leaves areas of land, it is used against them.
It's under control of Egypt.
Who controls Gaza?
Sinai is land 'ceded' by Israel, as in lowings comment 'Israel leaves areas of land'. No rocket attacks hail from Egypt.Karbin wrote:
Whats your point on Sinai?CameronPoe wrote:
Only a babbling idiot wouldn't acknowledge that rockets come from Gaza. They did even when Israel occupied the area. They probably won't stop until the Palestinian issue has been fully resolved either. And the Sinai Peninsula is 100% proof positive that you are full of shit as usual.lowing wrote:
Actually do I didn't, I said Israel had conceded land. I also take note that you are not acknowledging that Gaza has been a source of rocket attacks into Israel. The point being, which I know you understand but can not admit, that when Israel leaves areas of land, it is used against them.
It's under control of Egypt.
Who controls Gaza?
Again, it's under control of Egypt. Egypt has a peace treaty. (Camp David)CameronPoe wrote:
Sinai is land 'ceded' by Israel, as in lowings comment 'Israel leaves areas of land'. No rocket attacks hail from Egypt.Karbin wrote:
Whats your point on Sinai?CameronPoe wrote:
Only a babbling idiot wouldn't acknowledge that rockets come from Gaza. They did even when Israel occupied the area. They probably won't stop until the Palestinian issue has been fully resolved either. And the Sinai Peninsula is 100% proof positive that you are full of shit as usual.
It's under control of Egypt.
Who controls Gaza?
Gaza is under the control of Hamas.
Hamas's 1988 charter calls for replacing the State of Israel with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.
Kind a hard to get a peace treaty with that in your charter.
If you are suggesting that peace happens when Arabs change their opinions, we're saying the same thing.CameronPoe wrote:
Oh that's right - Egypt and Jordan aren't Arab, Fatah didn't recognise Israel's right to exist, Qatar doesn't have low-level relations with Israel and Syria weren't clandestinely discussing peace with Israel in exchange for getting the Golan Heights back...san4 wrote:
Fixed.Karbin wrote:
As long as Arab opinions on the ME remain entrenched, nothing will change.
The Palestinian and other Arab leaders refuse accept Israel as a Jewish state. They don't want peace, they want the Jews gone.
Like many people, Cam likes to pretend otherwise.
lowings comment was a generalised comment that didn't refer specifically to Palestine. It was a catch all reference to Arabs/Muslims or any land 'ceded' by Israel - he made no distinction. Lowing is fond of generalisations.Karbin wrote:
Again, it's under control of Egypt. Egypt has a peace treaty. (Camp David)
Gaza is under the control of Hamas.
Hamas's 1988 charter calls for replacing the State of Israel with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.
Kind a hard to get a peace treaty with that in your charter.
Hamas will have to change their stance. If Sinn Féin could in the six counties, viewed in the context of the 1960s/1970s, then anything is possible.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-06-06 18:14:31)
Fair enough.CameronPoe wrote:
lowings comment was a generalised comment that didn't refer specifically to Palestine. It was a catch all reference to Arabs/Muslims or any land 'ceded' by Israel - he made no distinction. Lowing is fond of generalisations.Karbin wrote:
Again, it's under control of Egypt. Egypt has a peace treaty. (Camp David)
Gaza is under the control of Hamas.
Hamas's 1988 charter calls for replacing the State of Israel with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.
Kind a hard to get a peace treaty with that in your charter.
Hamas will have to change their stance. If Sinn Féin could in the six counties, viewed in the context of the 1960s/1970s, then anything is possible.
Oh please stop with the disection, you know damn well the point i was making, you must have, you avoided it like the plague.CameronPoe wrote:
lowings comment was a generalised comment that didn't refer specifically to Palestine. It was a catch all reference to Arabs/Muslims or any land 'ceded' by Israel - he made no distinction. Lowing is fond of generalisations.Karbin wrote:
Again, it's under control of Egypt. Egypt has a peace treaty. (Camp David)
Gaza is under the control of Hamas.
Hamas's 1988 charter calls for replacing the State of Israel with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.
Kind a hard to get a peace treaty with that in your charter.
Hamas will have to change their stance. If Sinn Féin could in the six counties, viewed in the context of the 1960s/1970s, then anything is possible.
Last edited by lowing (2009-06-06 20:25:04)
Newsflash: I'm not psychic.lowing wrote:
Oh please stop with the disection, you know doam well the point i was making, you must have, you avoided it like the plague.
Cam, massing troops along borders, cutting off water and trade routes, STATING you are going ot attack, is starting a war. I suppose you think Israel should have just let it happen instead of a pre-emptive strike.CameronPoe wrote:
They didn't start it Mr.HistoryVacuum.lowing wrote:
loss of territory is the risk you take when you start a fuckin war and lose. You have all of your toys taken away.AussieReaper wrote:
Why?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c … ments).gif
Why don't they deserve a state? Do the Israeli's have right to land which was never part of the '49 Armistice or the '47 UN plan?
http://www.teeth.com.pk/blog/wp-content … %20map.jpg
Palestinians aren't going to have a state much longer at this rate...
Erm it started when boatloads of foreigners came to settle Palestine, kind of like the influx of Mexicans into SW USA, way earlier than any of that shit. Like I said - Mr.HistoryVacuum.lowing wrote:
Cam, massing troops along borders, cutting off water and trade routes, STATING you are going ot attack, is starting a war. I suppose you think Israel should have just let it happen instead of a pre-emptive strike.
and just how far back you really want to go?CameronPoe wrote:
Erm it started when boatloads of foreigners came to settle Palestine, kind of like the influx of Mexicans into SW USA, way earlier than any of that shit. Like I said - Mr.HistoryVacuum.lowing wrote:
Cam, massing troops along borders, cutting off water and trade routes, STATING you are going ot attack, is starting a war. I suppose you think Israel should have just let it happen instead of a pre-emptive strike.
Well we could hand it back to Egypt or the Canaanites but I think most of the latter are dead now. Killed by the Israelites. Refer to Exodus for details. Maybe the Romans should take some of the blame here.lowing wrote:
and just how far back you really want to go?
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-06-06 18:32:43)
The Palestinian Authority also will have to drop its insistence on a total right of return. Settlements, roadblocks and the Gaza blockade are not relevant to peace--according to the Arabs. Neither Hamas nor the Palestinian Authority have suggested they would be willing to change their stance under any circumstances.CameronPoe wrote:
lowings comment was a generalised comment that didn't refer specifically to Palestine. It was a catch all reference to Arabs/Muslims or any land 'ceded' by Israel - he made no distinction. Lowing is fond of generalisations.Karbin wrote:
Again, it's under control of Egypt. Egypt has a peace treaty. (Camp David)
Gaza is under the control of Hamas.
Hamas's 1988 charter calls for replacing the State of Israel with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.
Kind a hard to get a peace treaty with that in your charter.
Hamas will have to change their stance. If Sinn Féin could in the six counties, viewed in the context of the 1960s/1970s, then anything is possible.
Wow, something you do think you know everything about, let me mark it on my calandarCameronPoe wrote:
Newsflash: I'm not psychic.lowing wrote:
Oh please stop with the disection, you know doam well the point i was making, you must have, you avoided it like the plague.
I doubt Cam would be in favor of this. I am sure he thinks all of the construction and infrastructure established by Israel in what used to be a wasteland should be turned over to Palestine and the Jews should just GTFO.san4 wrote:
The Palestinian Authority also will have to drop its insistence on a total right of return. Settlements, roadblocks and the Gaza blockade are not relevant to peace--according to the Arabs. Neither Hamas nor the Palestinian Authority have suggested they would be willing to change their stance under any circumstances.CameronPoe wrote:
lowings comment was a generalised comment that didn't refer specifically to Palestine. It was a catch all reference to Arabs/Muslims or any land 'ceded' by Israel - he made no distinction. Lowing is fond of generalisations.Karbin wrote:
Again, it's under control of Egypt. Egypt has a peace treaty. (Camp David)
Gaza is under the control of Hamas.
Hamas's 1988 charter calls for replacing the State of Israel with a Palestinian Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank, and the Gaza Strip.
Kind a hard to get a peace treaty with that in your charter.
Hamas will have to change their stance. If Sinn Féin could in the six counties, viewed in the context of the 1960s/1970s, then anything is possible.
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Palestine has been Palestinian for the past 2,000 years. Its theirs and they should keep it.
There were jews living there peacefully alongside the moslems and the christians - its everyones 'holy land' - if they can't share and want it all for themselves thats too bad.
The question really is do the Israelis 'deserve' a state and who should be forced to give up theirs so they can have it.
I say Texas, America is big enough, the Texans can find a new home somewhere.
There were jews living there peacefully alongside the moslems and the christians - its everyones 'holy land' - if they can't share and want it all for themselves thats too bad.
The question really is do the Israelis 'deserve' a state and who should be forced to give up theirs so they can have it.
I say Texas, America is big enough, the Texans can find a new home somewhere.
Fuck Israel
show me a map before 1947 with Israel on it
..............................
i thought not.
..............................
i thought not.
These are all matters for discussion and negotiation. Justice alone would dictate that Israel should at least pay reparations to the displaced, akin to German reparations for their crimes. Israel would have to drop their insistence on settlement maintenance and building also - I don't see Benyamin Netanyahu yielding on that right now despite heavy US pressure and despite previous administrations recognition of the need to. I don't see them yielding on a Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem either. They seem quite content to trap another few hundred thousand Palestinians in their little empire.san4 wrote:
The Palestinian Authority also will have to drop its insistence on a total right of return. Settlements, roadblocks and the Gaza blockade are not relevant to peace--according to the Arabs. Neither Hamas nor the Palestinian Authority have suggested they would be willing to change their stance under any circumstances.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-06-07 02:47:56)